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Thread: Naked portafilter tripple basket?

  1. #1
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    Naked portafilter tripple basket?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I saw it mentioned on Talk Coffee that the naked portafilter comes "standard with deep triple basket". Is that usually the case for naked portafilters?

    The reason I'm asking is that a naked pf, from what I understand, is mainly used for training and to check your grind, tamping etc, so wouldn't you want it to be as similar as possible to what you normally use, which in most cases is a double basket? Why the triple basket?

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    I normally use a triple basket...

    I always use my naked PF...

    My triple basket doesn't fit into my standard portafilter...

    I won't speculate as to Talk Coffee's reasons for selling them together, but consider that someone troubleshooting a double basket already owns one.
    Last edited by MrJack; 15th April 2015 at 11:45 AM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snobben View Post
    I saw it mentioned on Talk Coffee that the naked portafilter comes "standard with deep triple basket". Is that usually the case for naked portafilters?
    Yes!

    What you do with yours is entirely up to you. If you can get a picnic basket to fit....

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    Yeah, well I do like strong coffee, so I'll probably be happy to use it all the time.

    I was just surprised that a tool that, from the info I mostly see about them, seems to be mainly for diagnosing, training etc, is different from your usual tool. It seems a bit like saying "we've got this special hammer here that allows you to see exactly how you hit the nail, so you can fine tune and optimise your hammering, but it's also (for no apparent reason) got a head that is 1.5 times as large as the head on the hammer you normally use...". Not ideal, if you ask me.

    Just an observation

  5. #5
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    It's a great idea because triples don't fit in most baskets, and most people already have double baskets. It makes sense to me to give the buyer something they don't already have, and couldn't use without the naked PF.

    I got one with mine. I don't use it much, but have played around with it.

    You can still use the double basket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gibberblot View Post
    You can still use the double basket.
    Oh ok, so if I understand you correctly, the naked pf comes with a triple basket but you can still put a double (or even single, I guess) basket into it. If that's the case, that's great. I thought your only option was to use the triple basket it comes with. Hence my question 'Why a different basket to what's considered more normal / common?'.

    Cheers

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    Ah I see. Yes, you understand correctly: the naked PF still fits standard baskets

  8. #8
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Welcome to CS Snobben,

    The hammer analogy does't work unless you include children's toy hammers. ;-)

    Naked p/f's are more about coming out of the dark and into the light; their use goes way beyond 'diagnostics and training'.

    'Normal/common' ...... depends, on quite a lot. In my experience it's less common to use a single.... rare even.
    DesigningByCoffee and Dimal like this.

  9. #9
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    I originally converted my PF into a naked to check my pours but now use one all the time as I find it cleaner and easier. No drips, no coffee residues. I use my normal pf with a blind for easy backflushing without having to swap baskets.

    If you get one if the cafelat portafilters (I love it) you can have both in one.

    On another note, my synesso double is is about the same capacity as a generic triple.

    Cheers
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  10. #10
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    I'm with artman: I originally bought a naked to check my extraction but found it was cleaner - no need to remove the basket to wash out the PF. It also looks sexier

    ironically triple baskets often don't fit in stock PFs, hence their use in naked PFs. However unless you're in the habit of drinking triple ristrettos it would be handy to split them, which is where the versatility of the Cafelat PF comes in.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    Welcome to CS Snobben
    Thank you

    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    Naked p/f's use goes way beyond 'diagnostics and training'
    Yeah, true, and I agree it looks nicer. I just meant most of the times I come across someone talking about them, it's in the context of checking your tamping etc. That's what pretty much every youtube video on naked pf's say.

    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    'Normal/common' ...... depends, on quite a lot. In my experience it's less common to use a single.... rare even.
    Yeah, I was referring that double baskets seem to be the most common. Or rather, triple baskets NOT being the most normal/common.

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    Thanks guys, I think the key was my misunderstanding of what baskets fit into a naked; I didn't realise that I can still use a double basket in it.

    Cheers!

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    Hi there. As I've got an excess PF, would it work if I just machined the base off one of them? Done by a friend who knows what they are doing with said machine? Or is there something fundamental I'm missing here?

  14. #14
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    Machining the bottom out will give you a perfectly usable Naked PF. You will see the brass where the material was removed if you look under it but I have never noticed chrome peeling at the interface after many years of use.

    My first naked conversion I did with a hole saw in a drill press.

    If you have access to a lathe it will be easier and neater. It will be done in a few minutes.

    Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pukako View Post
    Hi there. As I've got an excess PF, would it work if I just machined the base off one of them? Done by a friend who knows what they are doing with said machine? Or is there something fundamental I'm missing here?
    Hi Pukako

    You are only missing something (perhaps an eye) if you try to use a hole saw with a stainless steel p/f (i.e. most new ones since EU decided to avoid brass). Very dangerous as the hole saw may shatter. A lathe is fine for either stainless or brass.

    Using an existing p/f and converting it is probably a safer / better way to go unless the naked is actually made for that machine - any height difference between the lugs and the top of the p/f can give problems sealing the shot / wearing the collar (depending whether it is looser or tighter). I have seen a few train wrecks caused by that mismatch.

    Onto the "nakeds are a diagnostic tool only" thing: I suspect most "hard core CSrs" like myself have not used a standard p/f for years. Better crema and superior, cleaner tasting shot is a given with a naked. It also helps to hone your technique. Even most of the better WA cafes I know use a naked for most shots.

    TampIt

  16. #16
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    I didn't realise stainless PFs are getting common. The only ones I was aware of was the Breville DB and the cafelat convertible one. Learn something new everyday.

    Cheers

  17. #17
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    I have just bought a naked of to experiment with. I have achieved a pour with one thick pour from centre of basket but the taste of the shot was a little off. I then adjusted my Super Jolly to make gring slightly more fine. The pour then appeared as two streams from the basket. What is the appearance of the pour that I should be aiming for?

  18. #18
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    Ideally you want dots of coffee appearing uniformly on the area of the basket and flowing evenly from there forming a centre point of the pour that doesn't move around the basket too much. This confirms even extraction.

    If you are not getting this then your distribution and/or tamp needs tweaking. I don't always get a "perfect" flow but unless it's way off it still tastes great!

    Cheers
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  19. #19
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    Thanks Artman. The first pour was roughly as you describe. As you suggest, it is probably my technique. No place to hide with a naked pf. At least I know what to aim for now.
    Cheers.

  20. #20
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    The entire underside should have a relatively uniform colour (some striping is good) - ie the look of the coffee coming through from all areas of the puck , no blonde sections (which could mean channelling which leads to under extraction).
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  21. #21
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    I did have one fine spray from one hole in the basket. I presume that would be caused by channeling?
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  22. #22
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    If you have spurts, thats an area of your tamping where you may be uneven or not have sufficient coffee into the puck in that area. I weigh my dose of 16g, tap it on a flat surface to disperse the grounds, then tamp lightly, ensuring its nice and level. This method leads to generally great looking shots.
    pbarton likes this.

  23. #23
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    The technique I use (rightly or wrongly) is fill basket, tap down twice, tamp, tap side of to displace coffee on side of basket, then polish that small amount of loose coffee into the top of the puck. Seems like I might have to adjust my technique. Maybe the slight lack of uniformity especially near the edge may be the cause of the channeling. Thanks very much for the advice.

  24. #24
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    Avoid tapping basket as it can create cracks which lead to chanelling. If you settle the beans with a few taps after grinding, that should be plenty before tamping.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by snedden9485 View Post
    Avoid tapping basket as it can create cracks which lead to chanelling. If you settle the beans with a few taps after grinding, that should be plenty before tamping.
    After tamping maybe. I don't buy this otherwise - I tap, a lot, to distribute the grounds prior to tamping. Little to no channelling.
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  26. #26
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    Yep, me too...

    Tapper from way back...

    Mal.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Yep, me too...

    Tapper from way back...

    Mal.
    As am I, works a treat, no channeling for me.Shall We Dance GIF 1.gif
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbarton View Post
    The technique I use (rightly or wrongly) is fill basket, tap down twice, tamp, tap side of to displace coffee on side of basket, then polish that small amount of loose coffee into the top of the puck.
    I couldnt see an issue with tapping prior to tamping, but he stated he taps the side afterwards, which I think could be a source of chanelling. I give mine a good tap downwards a few times to disperse the grind then tamp.
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  29. #29
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    Thanks all. The purpose of the tapping I am doing is after I tamp there is a small amount of coffee on the side of the basket. This is the small gap between the tamp and the basket. I can see from your comments that this was incorrect technique and it makes good sense not to tap after tamping. I appreciate the guidance.
    Cheers, Paul

  30. #30
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    Having started to use a naked recently, I found a massive improvement came from Weiss distribution technique: give the grounds a good stir with a toothpick. I do this when the grounds are in the basket. Breaks up clumps, which some grinders (like mine) tend to produce.
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  31. #31
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    Thanks shortblackman. I will give a try too.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by snedden9485 View Post
    I couldnt see an issue with tapping prior to tamping, but he stated he taps the side afterwards, which I think could be a source of chanelling. I give mine a good tap downwards a few times to disperse the grind then tamp.
    Ahhhh, missed that, should have read pbarton's post more carefully

    Yes, I can also see tapping after tamping being a potential source of problems.
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  33. #33
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    Yes, the tapping was the issue. I did a more careful tamp without tapping and achieved a near centre of the basket think flow with some lighter brown striping. A bit more practice is required but I am heading in the right direction.
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