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Thread: Any good electrician coffee snobs?

  1. #1
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    Any good electrician coffee snobs?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi, I hope you're a good electrician if you're reading this.

    My dear old Breville Ikon BES400 espresso machine has been out of action for some time, and it's apparently due to the 1.5uf 280v capacitor on it's PCB.

    An electrician coffeesnob previously posted that he had found the solution to the same problem I have had with two consecutive machines, and said he replaced this faulty capacitor and was all good.
    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...-assembly.html

    But I don't know where I will be able to find one quickly.

    I've found one that looks the same on eBay but it is 1.0uf 280v - and so my question is, do you think I can get a 1.5uf from somewhere, or do you think that the 1.0uf capacitor will do the job just the same?

    Thanks in advance for lending your electrical knowledge to help out a fellow coffee addict.

    Glen

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    I had a look at my Jaycar catalogue for you but 280volts is right out there, almost nothing they sell goes that high so you sure that spec is right? Maybe give them/Altronics/RS components a call?

  3. #3
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    It's probably a Polyester Film capacitor, smoothing and buffering the output of a half-wave rectifier...

    So long as you keep the capacitance value the same, a higher voltage one will be fine. Something like this...
    Capacitor.JPG

    Mal.
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    I have them in stock, fairly sure they're the same as the one I'm thinking of. I'll check tomorrow, I can post one out to you if you like.
    Will send you a PM once I've got more details.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    It's probably a Polyester Film capacitor, smoothing and buffering the output of a half-wave rectifier...

    So long as you keep the capacitance value the same, a higher voltage one will be fine. Something like this...
    Capacitor.JPG

    Mal.
    Sounds good!
    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by noidle22 View Post
    I have them in stock, fairly sure they're the same as the one I'm thinking of. I'll check tomorrow, I can post one out to you if you like.
    Will send you a PM once I've got more details.
    That's great!
    Yes please let me know.

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    If it's a capacitive power supply I would not advise substituting a 1uF instead of the correct and original 1.5uF, as it may have flow on effects downstream and potentially cause damage to other components.

    As Dimal said, higher voltage is fine. But it also might be an X or Y rated cap which must also be replaced with the same type to maintain the safety properties they are in there to provide.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicovington View Post
    If it's a capacitive power supply I would not advise substituting a 1uF instead of the correct and original 1.5uF, as it may have flow on effects downstream and potentially cause damage to other components.

    As Dimal said, higher voltage is fine. But it also might be an X or Y rated cap which must also be replaced with the same type to maintain the safety properties they are in there to provide.
    I tend to agree the 280V is a bit of a guide as X2 are typically rated in that voltage range

    An EPCOS 1,5uf can be sourced from Element 14 and is showing as ex stock EPCOS B32924C3155M000 Capacitor X2 1.5uF 305VAC 22.5mm

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    Sorry, the ones I have are 0.82uF, used in the 800ES machine.

    I'll check with Breville to see if a new power board is available as it's showing on the spares listing. Should have some news next week.

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    here is a picture of it, you can read everything on the side of it.
    Thanks for your replies. I'd really like to have a replacement installed before Friday next week, so I know if I should box it up and take it with me or not.
    I'll try get something express posted to me on Monday, hopefully by then I'll have found a decent replacement.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Quote Originally Posted by nicovington View Post
    it also might be an X or Y rated cap which must also be replaced with the same type to maintain the safety properties they are in there to provide.
    Yes, I considered this too but with the symptoms explained in the link of the OP, didn't sound like an X/Y capacitor. If there is any doubt, instead of using a PET component, a PP (polypropylene) component should be used instead...

    (Edit)
    In fact, the photo you provided is exactly that, so scratch the PET capacitor and use a PP instead...

    Mal.

  12. #12
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    Just make sure you use an X2 rated and approved capacitor as this will be sitting across the power line.
    First 2 pages of this link explains http://www.kemet.com/Lists/Filestore...aRFIandSMD.pdf
    "X capacitors are across the line. If they short-circuit, the risk is fire" "Because of the risks, X and Y capacitors are safety agency tested"

  13. #13
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    To be honest....

    If that capacitor is connected as per the usual X capacitor, I doubt that the symptoms would be as described. It is indeed an 'X' type capacitor but whether it is connected as such, who knows, unless somebody has experience with this particular board and knows the circuit. I think it would be best all round if the OP got somebody with the requisite knowledge and experience to check it out for them...

    Mal.

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    Can you provide a more overall photo of the board. I think it might be a capacitive supply based on the nearby diodes and fairly large resistor. 1.5uF would be in the ballpark too, I have a number of 1uF X2 caps from when I designed such a supply for my thesis project.

    The symptoms should match too, if that capacitor has a partial fault, it may be sagging under the load as these types of supplies are extremely limited in the current they can provide.

  15. #15
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    Agree with you "nicovington"...

    That's what it seems like to me too...

    Mal.

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    Hopefully this photo helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz. View Post
    I tend to agree the 280V is a bit of a guide as X2 are typically rated in that voltage range

    An EPCOS 1,5uf can be sourced from Element 14 and is showing as ex stock EPCOS B32924C3155M000 Capacitor X2 1.5uF 305VAC 22.5mm
    I just noticed this comment, don't know how I missed it earlier!

    I've ordered this one (batch of 5 actually!) and hopefully it'll be here before Thursday.

    Thanks everyone for your help!

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    Before finding the post about Element 14, I had contacted RS Components and the closest thing they have is this:

    RS Stock No.196-4725
    RS MRP440 1.5μF Polypropylene Film Capacitor 440 V ac 10%, Screw Mount 30mm
    | RS MRP440 1.5F Polypropylene Film Capacitor 440 V ac 10%, Screw Mount 30mm |

    which doesn't look anything like it.

    I've searched altrsonics website and it doesn't look like they have anything that matches what I was looking for either.

    Here is a couple more clearer photos of the PCB just for interest sake.
    I will post something more about it when I have done the swap, and let you know what happens.

    Thanks again everyone for your diligent efforts in helping me out!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  19. #19
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    For anything to do with components, Element 14 is always the first go-to for me. Not much they don't have in stock...

    Mal.

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    All good! On top you can see the old yellow cap alongside one of the new blue ones.

    Installed the new cap from Element 14 yesterday evening and it's running like new again!
    All smiles here.
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  21. #21
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    Great news gme...

    Mal.

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    Hi All,

    sorry to dig this one up. My good ol 7 year old Ikon is showing the same symptoms. Can anyone point me toward any doco on taking the Ikon apart to get at this PCB please so i can check if its got the same capacitor?

    cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by simo_b View Post
    Hi All,

    sorry to dig this one up. My good ol 7 year old Ikon is showing the same symptoms. Can anyone point me toward any doco on taking the Ikon apart to get at this PCB please so i can check if its got the same capacitor?

    cheers
    Yeah if it's the same problem and same model it will have the same capacitor for sure.

    As for taking it apart, you'll need a special torx tip screwdriver, you can buy these at Bunnings or wherever everywhere, look up underneath the top part of the machine and you'll see there's lots of screws with the torx star shaped head in there.

    The tricky ones are the three on the back, they have a triangle shape, but I have found that the pointy tip of pointy nose pliers fits in and perfectly grips to remove them.

    Once you have all the screws removed, carefully lift the lid off, careful because the control buttons have a plug wired into them, so lift up the back end of the lid, and keep the front power end of it close to the machine, or you could jerk the wires and break something.

    Use your pointy pliers, or finger nails/thumb to remove the plug from the back of the control buttons.

    Now you just have three normal Philips screws to remove which are holding down the power supply board, which is in grey plastic casing, you will need to cut one little white zip tie to free it up.

    To open up the plastic casing, you'll need to press the plastic clips in with something pointy, maybe two of them at the same time while prying it open so that it pops open without breaking anything.

    Then you'll see the PCB in all its naked glory. And you'll see the big yellow capacitor, the problem child.

    There are 4 small Philips head screws holding the PCB down to the plastic back. Once you have that removed, you have access to the soldering on the back, with a good hot electric solder iron you'll be able to solder it off and the new one on.

    However, use a razor cutter to slice the glue under the capacitor which is holding it to the board. It's not going to solder off very well while that's holding on.

    I still have a spare one of these caps from when I did the job not long ago.

    Contact me if you want one.
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  24. #24
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    I have just done this as my steam stopped as well. All good now, got a pack of 5 capacitors from Element 14.
    Got some spares now.
    Dimal likes this.

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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by gmeddy View Post
    Hi, I hope you're a good electrician if you're reading this.

    My dear old Breville Ikon BES400 espresso machine has been out of action for some time, and it's apparently due to the 1.5uf 280v capacitor on it's PCB.

    An electrician coffeesnob previously posted that he had found the solution to the same problem I have had with two consecutive machines, and said he replaced this faulty capacitor and was all good.
    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...-assembly.html

    But I don't know where I will be able to find one quickly.

    I've found one that looks the same on eBay but it is 1.0uf 280v - and so my question is, do you think I can get a 1.5uf from somewhere, or do you think that the 1.0uf capacitor will do the job just the same?

    Thanks in advance for lending your electrical knowledge to help out a fellow coffee addict.

    Glen
    Go 1.5 or higher, never go lower.
    You can get these capacitors from element 14 in chester hill.



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