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Thread: Fittings for espresso machines

  1. #1
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    Fittings for espresso machines

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Picked up a stainless needle valve which I'd like to plumb in to my Bezzera BZ99s as a bypass flow control valve (to mess about with flowrate).

    Had a look under the hood yesterday, and think my best option is to put in a couple of tees, and using short sections of 6mm PTFE tubing.

    One of the tees will tie in at the upstream end of the PTFE line between the pump discharge and the solenoid. The other at the pump inlet, at the end of the PTFE line from the OPV bypass.

    The existing fittings are 1/8" BSP Serto fittings in nickel plated brass (I think). I've seen similar kind of fittings available online, but not sure about the best kind of fitting for the PTFE tube. The OEM lines have an insert and a captive nut.

    Anyone know where I can source some of these (sponsors?), or have used them before in an espresso machine?

  2. #2
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrJack View Post
    Picked up a stainless needle valve which I'd like to plumb in to my Bezzera BZ99s as a bypass flow control valve (to mess about with flowrate).

    Had a look under the hood yesterday, and think my best option is to put in a couple of tees, and using short sections of 6mm PTFE tubing.

    One of the tees will tie in at the upstream end of the PTFE line between the pump discharge and the solenoid. The other at the pump inlet, at the end of the PTFE line from the OPV bypass.

    The existing fittings are 1/8" BSP Serto fittings in nickel plated brass (I think). I've seen similar kind of fittings available online, but not sure about the best kind of fitting for the PTFE tube. The OEM lines have an insert and a captive nut.

    Anyone know where I can source some of these (sponsors?), or have used them before in an espresso machine?
    Pump and irrigation stores carry BSB fittings. Pirtek carries NSP/BSB/BSP and aircraft-style push in (nylon) fittings. Coffee Parts carries some fittings.

  3. #3
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    Cheers. I have seen the ones on Coffeeparts and will probably get them if I can't find any here in Perth.

    My only concern was the existing fittings on the PTFE line. Have some John Guest threaded fittings which fit, but dont thread on far enough to seal against the insert in the tube.

    I'd post a picture, but Tapatalk crashes every time I try.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    If you get stuck PM me. I just did a custom bypass for a friend using NS nylon/PTFE tubing. Can source fittings.

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    I was thinking of doing similar at one stage before I decided to make my BZ99s rotary. 4 mm ID PTFE with M12/1 compression fittings? I recall Pirtek didn't really have anything compatible - the closest was some thing they carried for (now illegal) motorbike brake line repairs.

    Neuforce in Sydney show they carry Serto components, you'll see the same sort of elbows on this page, but in SS.

    What thread has your needle valve got on it?

    Let me know how you go - I'm thinking of using Teflon tubing for a different machine. Which fittings did you end up using Sprezz?

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    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonko View Post
    I was thinking of doing similar at one stage before I decided to make my BZ99s rotary. 4 mm ID PTFE with M12/1 compression fittings? I recall Pirtek didn't really have anything compatible - the closest was some thing they carried for (now illegal) motorbike brake line repairs.

    Neuforce in Sydney show they carry Serto components, you'll see the same sort of elbows on this page, but in SS.

    What thread has your needle valve got on it?

    Let me know how you go - I'm thinking of using Teflon tubing for a different machine. Which fittings did you end up using Sprezz?
    I had to work with NS calibrated Teflon pipe (4/2.5) but we used M6 and 1/8" NPT press fittings. If you cut them carefully they don't leak and these guys are good to 20bar.
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  7. #7
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    Have you tried Enzed? They might have the bits you need? Worth a shot, best to visit in store.

    Cheers

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    Interested to hear more about the conversion to rotary....

    Have been looking through the Neuforce material, but haven't contacted them yet.

    My valve has 1/8" female BSP (parallel) connections. My John Guest fittings fit it fine (although I would prefer stainless).

    The existing fitting is 6mm OD, 4mm ID PTFE. Thread appears to be BSPP, but not sure (Bezzera diagram says 1/8" G). I think the seal is made between the end of the insert (ferrule?) and the end of the fitting, but there is some kind of insert in the fitting itself, which reduces the internal diameter.

    What would actually be ideal is another of the special 90deg male tees used on the inlet...

  9. #9
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    Incidentally, turns out the "G" may indicate BSPP with parallel male and female https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Pipe

    Also discovered the 90deg ("V") tee, amongst the brass range of Serto fittings.

    20160814_194540 [272314].jpg20160814_194325 [272317].jpg

  10. #10
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    Pretty sure it's a reduction compression fitting - the nut has a tapered collar inside which squeezes the tube against nipple/olive inside the tube when the nut is tightened.

    Conversion to rotary went smoothly. A pressure regulator getting the line pressure down to an acceptable range for the pump was quite expensive so decided to get the Brita C150 water filter many of the sponsors here recommend, as that comes with an appropriate 350 kPa regulator. Disconnected tank and pump, brought water into the junction after the pump so it could service both the HX and the boiler fill solenoid. Drive rotary pump from same GICAR output as used to drive the vibe pump. Total bliss not having to hear the vibe pump or run out of water mid-shot, but do miss the inherent softer, ramped infusion from the vibe pump. Puck prep has become much more important.
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  11. #11
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    You can find a double olive pretty easy. The tapered fitting may be tricky; not that you can't purpose make a non-OEM one.

  12. #12
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    So... stainless Serto fittings are out of the question. Cost would approach that of the machine ($100 for one tee...).

  13. #13
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Yowza! At least BSB is inexpensive.

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    I've asked for a price for the brass - hopefully an order of magnitude less

  15. #15
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Fittings for espresso machines

    Definitely! BSB fittings are a few bucks each. Another good place to look for fittings is a BBQ or gas supply store.

  16. #16
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    Brass Serto were still relatively expensive, but a more tolerable $17 per tee. Noticed they do nickel plated too, which is probably a better option.

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    I undertook some mods on my Giotto recently, coffee parts sells the nickel plated BSP fittings and the braze on olives (pipe ends). But I had to buy 4mm and 6mm copper pipe on eBay from a UK seller as nobody in Australia sells 4mm or 6mm copper pipe (1/4" is not the same).. You can then do away with the Teflon fittings.

  18. #18
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    For this application (vibe pump inlet / outlet) I think a flexible tubing like PTFE is probably more suitable.
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  19. #19
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Fittings for espresso machines

    PTFE or nylon will work and does on other machines.

  20. #20
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    Copper would transmit more vibration/noise from the pump - better to dampen with PTFE or nylon.
    Last edited by simonko; 17th August 2016 at 09:23 PM.
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  21. #21
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Here's a Fluid-O-Tech reciprocating pump arrangement that's hard plumbed out and 6mm Nylon return from OPV to pump inlet.

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    Looks a bit newer than my BZ99s

    Any idea what kind of fittings those are?

    Interestingly, the Serto website mentions that the nickel plated fittings are not suitible for use with potable water. They do recommend the ultra low lead brass fittings (basically the standard fittings with the lead leached out post manufacture), but sadly these are not available from the local distributor (and have a minimum order of 100). Standard fittings are made from CW617N (pickled), which is < 2.2% lead.

    I discovered yesterday that the distributor has some super cheap dry pressure gauges ($15 ea), 0-12 barg. So this project is growing in scope...

  23. #23
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    This is the primary hydraulic line in a C.M.A (Wega Mini-Nova EVD). 1/4" BSB single flares and a brass insert into the 6mm Nylon return tube from the OPV to a PTFE "t" to the inlet to the pump (sort of a self-prime idea I guess).
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  24. #24
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    It's a 2011. The pig tail goes to a MA-TER pstat.

  25. #25
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    I'll try to discover what that insert is (don't work on many prosumer machines with PTFE and Nylon until lately).

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrJack View Post
    Looks a bit newer than my BZ99s

    I discovered yesterday that the distributor has some super cheap dry pressure gauges ($15 ea), 0-12 barg. So this project is growing in scope...
    I slapped a dry pressure gauge on my BZ99s too - more because I didn't have a cap for a unused junction outlet, but it's been handy. Gives me 4 barg when idle, so either it and/or my 350 kPa regulator are/is slightly out. About 10 barg when extracting.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprezzatura View Post
    This is the primary hydraulic line in a C.M.A (Wega Mini-Nova EVD). 1/4" BSB single flares and a brass insert into the 6mm Nylon return tube from the OPV to a PTFE "t" to the inlet to the pump (sort of a self-prime idea I guess).
    Got a supplier of these so I can see what's available? Building a machine and thinking of predominantly using PTFE.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonko View Post
    I slapped a dry pressure gauge on my BZ99s too - more because I didn't have a cap for a unused junction outlet, but it's been handy. Gives me 4 barg when idle, so either it and/or my 350 kPa regulator are/is slightly out. About 10 barg when extracting.
    Got any pictures of how you fitted it?

  29. #29
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    A pic won't be that helpful as I used a junction I had lying around from another machine, but I took one anyway:



    It's the miniature little copper pipe you see, above the solenoid. Water in from the rotary pump via the braided hose, OPV runs off to the left horizontally, one way valve going down to the solenoid tee. I only use the one way valve as a male-to-male adapter, not to prevent backflow which won't happen anyway.
    Last edited by simonko; 19th August 2016 at 02:38 AM.

  30. #30
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    Cheers. Looks like quite a lot of rearrangement has gone on there!

    Do you have any pics of how you mounted the gauge itself? Not all that keen to start cutting up the panels of my BZ!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrJack View Post
    Cheers. Looks like quite a lot of rearrangement has gone on there!

    Do you have any pics of how you mounted the gauge itself? Not all that keen to start cutting up the panels of my BZ!
    The gauge I got the machine off had it mounted behind a single perspex window in the stainless steel panelling catering for it and the boiler pressure gauge. It wasn't pretty enough to consider mounting on the BZ, so I just have it on the table behind the machine as it has about a half a metre of piggie tailing.

    I'll be also be either reverting this BZ back to pump and selling it (so don't want to dodgy it), or disassembling it for certain parts in the near future anyway.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonko View Post
    The gauge I got the machine off had it mounted behind a single perspex window in the stainless steel panelling catering for it and the boiler pressure gauge. It wasn't pretty enough to consider mounting on the BZ, so I just have it on the table behind the machine as it has about a half a metre of piggie tailing.

    I'll be also be either reverting this BZ back to pump and selling it (so don't want to dodgy it), or disassembling it for certain parts in the near future anyway.
    Cheers. I think that sounds like a reasonable option.

    Do you plan on reusing the rotary pump, or will that be up for sale also?

  33. #33
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    Building a two group plumbed lever machine so I will be selling the rotary pump (separate to BZ) when I have one group pouring well. Could easily be 6 months away though as much as I'd love to work on it at the moment.
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  34. #34
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonko View Post
    Got a supplier of these so I can see what's available? Building a machine and thinking of predominantly using PTFE.
    Hi, sorry - didn't see this until now. I get parts from a heavy-duty ag store (pumps/irrigation) but Pedro @ Coffee Parts has this cool illustration of some of their fittings:

  35. #35
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    The small ferrules are inserts for Nylon and silicone tubing.



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