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Thread: All baskets other than VST are terrible.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    All baskets other than VST are terrible.

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Just noticed this on Matt Pergers site, talk about sweeping statements.

    "Only use VST baskets. You shouldn’t even be using another basket because they’re all terrible. Without exception."



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    He's a professional barista talking to professional baristas. This us about consistency and excellence in a commercial environment.

    It has nothing to do with home coffee making, unless you are OCD or aspire to consistency and excellence and believe the right tools help with this objective.

    Of course one can make an excellent, tasty coffee with the standard basket that comes with your E61 machine, with a simple tamper. And I'm sure you do. It requires experience and practice to get consistency. And by all accounts you are a master at this.

    However, in a commercial, high volume environment how do you get excellence and consistency with multiple baristas, all with differing skills and experience? By having a consistent process and set of tools that the baristas are trained to use. Perger is talking to professional coffee shops. He is not talking to you or me.
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    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    But Yelta, you're the king of sweeping statements! It's almost a direct copy of one of your originals.

    In all seriousness, although not defending the statement, it should be noted that this comment was 1. made in the context of what would work well with a particular design of tamper for a particular outcome and 2. made in December 2015. In the intervening years the Coffee scene has seen a number of more precisely designed baskets come to market. Despite the sweeping nature, the sentiment seems to have resonated with the great unwashed of coffee.

    It's not nearly that controversial.

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    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlight View Post
    He's a professional barista talking to professional baristas. This us about consistency and excellence in a commercial environment.

    It has nothing to do with home coffee making, unless you are OCD or aspire to consistency and excellence and believe the right tools help with this objective.

    Of course one can make an excellent, tasty coffee with the standard basket that comes with your E61 machine, with a simple tamper. And I'm sure you do. It requires experience and practice to get consistency. And by all accounts you are a master at this.

    However, in a commercial, high volume environment how do you get excellence and consistency with multiple baristas, all with differing skills and experience? By having a consistent process and set of tools that the baristas are trained to use. Perger is talking to professional coffee shops. He is not talking to you or me.
    Yelta's a bit of a fuddy duddy, dlight. I wouldn't bother trying to change his mind :P He smelt blood when you posted on the other thread, so now he's bringing his A game trolling skills to stir up the forum for the morning
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    Yelta's a bit of a fuddy duddy, dlight. I wouldn't bother trying to change his mind :P He smelt blood when you posted on the other thread, so now he's bringing his A game trolling skills to stir up the forum for the morning
    Thanks Al, Someone needs to spark things up around here now and again.
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    I never attempt to change people's minds. It's their opinion, after all, and that's coming from their understanding and belief system.

    I guess I'm just presenting a view that differs from Yelta's, and yes, controversy does 'spark things up'. As long as it isn't personal and vindictive, its all good stuff. I suspect that Yelta and I will be consistent - we come from differing points of view and we'll express them. A forum is designed for this after all.

    It's interesting that Yelta is also very consistent is targeting one of Australia's high profile commentators - Matt Perger. Very "tall poppy syndrome".

    I respect Matt for presenting views that at least have a factual basis - he does attempt to do research via presenting a hypothesis and then to prove or disprove it. He also challenges us to prove or disprove the motherhoods. He dislikes motherhoods and is happy to prove them wrong, or without basis. We need more people like him, and less of the naysayers.

    The truth is, the motherhoods are very misleading to people new to espresso making.
    - Tamping pressure should be 15kg. Bullshit - it should be consistent - the actual pressure doesn't matter (unless you're in a commercial environment with multiple baristas using the same equipment - you then do want consistency in the tamper pressure, otherwise some other variable needs to change between the baristas, such as puck weight or grind.)
    - Where on earth did WDT come from? It's a reaction to poor grinding and puck preparation. If you're using a poor grinder, then I guess it may be required. If you're using a quality grinder with fresh beans, a simple tap to settle and level tamp is all that's required. And an OCD or similar device is very helpful to get this consistent.
    ...

    On with the 'sparking things up'.
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Nothing to do with tall poppy dlight, there are many in the Aust industry I have great respect for, he simply doesn't make my list.

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    Senior Member 2muchcoffeeman's Avatar
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    oO kaching? What else does he currently have for sale?
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman View Post
    oO kaching? What else does he currently have for sale?
    G'Day Chris "there are many in the Aust industry I have great respect for" speak of the devil.
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    Senior Member 2muchcoffeeman's Avatar
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    Thank you Yelta,

    I do have an issue with anyone who makes all encompassing statements like this. It reeks of slick sales pitch aka boolsheet laced with a liberal dose of ulterior motive.

    Way too much of that sort of behaviour in the coffee industry these days...

    The "best thing since".... sliced bread remains my beautiful bread slicing knife and the product I can employ it on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman View Post
    oO kaching? What else does he currently have for sale?
    Hey Chris, great to have you join us.

    The only things are his new tamper and his coffee subscription. The tamper is both innovative and relatively low cost. But, because it 'looks' like conventional tampers, we'll no doubt have a comment that not an innovation or it's a copy. What are the innovations?
    - Low weight, tactile material for the body
    - Low cost replaceable bases
    - Snug fit to basket, without the vacuum effect
    Yes, theses are small innovations, but innovations nevertheless.

    I guess likewise, what else do you have for sale?

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    That's all good and well. Has no one seen the biggest problem here?.....
    What on earth was Yelta doing on Barista Hustle.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman View Post
    I do have an issue with anyone who makes all encompassing statements like this. It reeks of slick sales pitch aka boolsheet laced with a liberal dose of ulterior motive.
    As do I, modesty and humility are words virtually unknown to some of these shameless self promoters.

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    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    That's all good and well. Has no one seen the biggest problem here?.....
    What on earth was Yelta doing on Barista Hustle.
    'cause dlight mentioned Matt in another thread, giving Yelta a leg up onto his hobby horse to take it for a late morning trot.
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    'cause dlight mentioned Matt in another thread, giving Yelta a leg up onto his hobby horse to take it for a late morning trot.
    And trotting along very nicely on a loose rein at the moment.

    At least we're interacting about something other than Breville grinders and Weiss distribution techniques.

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    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    And trotting along very nicely on a loose rein at the moment.

    At least we're interacting about something other than Breville grinders and Weiss distribution techniques.
    Careful now, she'll bolt on you!
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    338
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    Yelta I must agree with you, the "without exception " is just a little too definitave for me. "In my experience" would be a lot more believable. He implies he has tried every basket in the world, I doubt that. Some guy in Seattle producing 100 baskets a year on his Micro Laser Welding machine? Not likely.

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    All baskets other than VST are terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    As do I, modesty and humility are words virtually unknown to some of these shameless self promoters.
    And what is he shamelessly self promoting?

    He has presented an educational forum that has shattered many of the motherhoods that you cling to.

    He proposes a hypothesis, and then attempts to prove or disprove it. Yes, he has a substantial following, and it is because of the value he has provided.

    How do propose someone informs and educates, if they have no forum to reach their audience? How do you get a forum? By appealing to an audience who responds to you. In his case, he has provided an amazing amount of educational content, based on facts, not motherhood. For free.

    Considering the contribution he has made, I think he is rather modest. He certainly respects his peers, and that's a sign of humility.

    Why on earth have you got an issue with this? It is you who is showing no respect and a lack of humility. I mean, what has your contribution been to the coffee industry, that allows you to feel that it is okay to attack a valuable contributor?

    It strikes me that you just are bigoted. Which, of course, is your entitlement.

    I guess I should stop now. It was interesting to see this absolutely consistent behaviour emerge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    He implies he has tried every basket in the world,....
    Really? Are you that naive? He is saying it for effect. He is not talking to you. He is talking to professional baristas who require consistency to be able to serve great coffee, all day, every day.

    Anyway, enough stirring.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlight View Post
    I guess I should stop now. It was interesting to see this absolutely consistent behaviour emerge.
    At last we agree.

    PS Seems motherhood is the word of the week.
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    Senior Member matth3wh's Avatar
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    I was interested to find the original quote in context.

    Appears to be a particular point in time statement directly relating to other baskets not working with Matt's sharp Pergtamp.

    Can't see the date of the article or whether other precision basket options like IMS existed at the time.

    The quote I could find relating to a long article on PergTamp and how it works in practice and is designed for VST baskets...

    Quote: "Only use VST baskets. This tamper will not fit in or work well with any other brand of basket. You shouldn’t even be using another basket because they’re all terrible. Without exception."


    Something else I found while searching for the original quote... :-)

    hyperbole hʌɪˈpəːbəli
    noun
    exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
    synonyms: exaggeration, overstatement, magnification, amplification, embroidery, embellishment, overplaying, excess, overkill;
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    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matth3wh View Post
    I was interested to find the original quote in context.

    Appears to be a particular point in time statement directly relating to other baskets not working with Matt's sharp Pergtamp.

    Can't see the date of the article or whether other precision basket options like IMS existed at the time.

    The quote I could find relating to a long article on PergTamp and how it works in practice and is designed for VST baskets...

    Quote: "Only use VST baskets. This tamper will not fit in or work well with any other brand of basket. You shouldn’t even be using another basket because they’re all terrible. Without exception."


    Something else I found while searching for the original quote... :-)

    hyperbole hʌɪˈpəːbəli
    noun
    exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
    synonyms:exaggeration, overstatement, magnification, amplification, embroidery, embellishment, overplaying, excess, overkill;
    All of this I referred to in post no. 3, but the outrage machine must see things through.
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    Senior Member matth3wh's Avatar
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    Correct.

    Thought to have another go ⭐️

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    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matth3wh View Post
    Correct.

    Thought to have another go ⭐️
    Like book ends of a sort.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlight View Post
    Really? Are you that naive? He is saying it for effect. He is not talking to you. He is talking to professional baristas who require consistency to be able to serve great coffee, all day, every day.

    Anyway, enough stirring.
    Dlight, there is no indication it is for effect. Your implication is that it it is ok to lie if speaking to professional baristas? Is that what you are implying?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dlight View Post
    He's a professional barista talking to professional baristas. This us about consistency and excellence in a commercial environment.

    It has nothing to do with home coffee making, unless you are OCD or aspire to consistency and excellence and believe the right tools help with this objective.

    Of course one can make an excellent, tasty coffee with the standard basket that comes with your E61 machine, with a simple tamper. And I'm sure you do. It requires experience and practice to get consistency. And by all accounts you are a master at this.

    However, in a commercial, high volume environment how do you get excellence and consistency with multiple baristas, all with differing skills and experience? By having a consistent process and set of tools that the baristas are trained to use. Perger is talking to professional coffee shops. He is not talking to you or me.
    Makes sense. Another example of Matt dismissing something that may actually work for others (read: home baristas) is his classification of convex tampers as "silly" on one of his blogs. I don't have the links readily available and don't know from the heart what filter baskets were used, but I remember reading about tests done in a home environment using refractometers and differences in extraction rate between a straight and convex tamper were found to be negligible. To each his own, use your own judgement...
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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by degaulle View Post
    Makes sense. Another example of Matt dismissing something that may actually work for others (read: home baristas) is his classification of convex tampers as "silly" on one of his blogs. I don't have the links readily available and don't know from the heart what filter baskets were used, but I remember reading about tests done in a home environment using refractometers and differences in extraction rate between a straight and convex tamper were found to be negligible. To each his own, use your own judgement...
    Ummm, Matt Perger has absolutely nothing to do with 'home baristas'. While some 'home baristas' might be interested in what he's doing, find some use in what he's saying, and be able to use some of his products, he is not speaking to this market. That's pretty clear really.
    (For the record, I agree, convex tampers are ridiculous and of no use whatsoever, to anyone, no matter where you make espresso).

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    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    So, summing up: the op was an intentional misquote taken some four years out of context, Yelta needs a hobby, it's mothers day soon, and convex tampers are ridiculous. 😉
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    Well Matt Perger (whoever he is) has an opinion like the rest of us, no better nor worse. Guess he is another coffee nerd with a fanboy following.

    The term professional is seriously overused/abused. That simply implies someone is paid to do something, doesn't guarantee they are good at it.

    I will be damned if I'd spend $30~ on a basket.

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    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Credibility is tumbling faster than tertiary funding around here... 🙄
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    Quote Originally Posted by degaulle View Post
    Makes sense. Another example of Matt dismissing something that may actually work for others (read: home baristas) is his classification of convex tampers as "silly" on one of his blogs. I don't have the links readily available and don't know from the heart what filter baskets were used, but I remember reading about tests done in a home environment using refractometers and differences in extraction rate between a straight and convex tamper were found to be negligible. To each his own, use your own judgement...
    Yes to each his/her own. I've used various types of tampers over the years (home/commercial) and still prefer a very heavy (22 oz.) solid stainless American convex tamper. If you ask me those POS plastic toy tampers Barista Hustle pushes are 'silly'. Guess a 22 oz. tamper must be too much mass for some coffee nerds to handle and the toy tampers fill that niche.
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    All baskets other than VST are terrible.

    Why insult someone who chooses to use one of Perger's new tampers. You seem to imply that you're a man, big tamper,...
    A very puzzling post. This thread seems to bring out this type of response.
    Last edited by dlight; 12th May 2017 at 10:37 PM.
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    I am implying his opinions are no better/worse than any others. Who really gives a damn what he thinks regardless of what he accomplishes?

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    Senior Member 2muchcoffeeman's Avatar
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    I think that anyone who thinks that any basket design is going to deliver the holy grail to the trophy cupboard "is dreamin".

    In the overwhelming majority of cases, a little training will deliver much more than an overpriced, laser cut, produced only between midnight and 2am on a full moon while facing east version.

    Look to technique first and once a naked portafilter and the result in the cup verify that you are nailing it only then would you perhaps seek the 1 or 2% that an overpriced but heavily promoted sexy sieve might deliver (and then only if the ducks are aligned).

    In most cases for your average coffeegeek, these toys result in more problems than they solve.
    Last edited by 2muchcoffeeman; 12th May 2017 at 08:51 AM. Reason: grammar

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    All baskets other than VST are terrible.

    I puzzled at what your message is.

    The VST basket is targeted at the commercial sector. They really don't have any interest in the "average coffee geek" (whatever that is).
    Getting consistency in puck preparation, irrespective of the machine being used is the objective. Strangely, the VST basket is very good at that.

    Why has this thread elicted highly personal opinions that have little or no relevance to the audience targeted by the person or product?
    Last edited by dlight; 13th May 2017 at 05:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shadow745 View Post
    I am implying his opinions are no better/worse than any others. Who really gives a damn what he thinks regardless of what he accomplishes?
    This another example of a completely irrelevant opinion. It is full of emotion with no respect for people who actually make a contribution to our community.

    I for one for appreciate opinions from knowledgeable people. And there are many knowledgeable people on the Coffee Snobs forum. But seemingly few on this thread.
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    Senior Member mwcalder05's Avatar
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    While we're on controversial statements, don't get Scott Rao talking about the OCD and similar devices! Let's just say that he is strongly not in favour...

    Just came up in conversation with him when he dropped into Noosa earlier in the year.

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    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlight View Post

    I for one for appreciate opinions from knowledgeable people. And there are many knowledgeable people on the Coffee Snobs forum. But seemingly few on this thread.
    I dont use VST so didnt have anything to add, until you called me out that is 😎
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    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwcalder05 View Post
    While we're on controversial statements, don't get Scott Rao talking about the OCD and similar devices! Let's just say that he is strongly not in favour...

    Just came up in conversation with him when he dropped into Noosa earlier in the year.
    That's interesting, though I'd like to know why and hear this opinion in context (after all this entire troll thread is based on ripping a statement out of its context and implying it's far more general statement than it is in truth). Does he prefer manual distribution methods, with all their drawbacks? 🤔

    Personally I'm open to anything that can improve consistency and quality of output. The rusty-gate brigade will no doubt chime in here with their mantra "grind, dose, distribution, tamp, forever and ever, amen" 😉

    But the fact is that innovations be they large or small aim to improve one or more of those factors - and are generally aimed at repeatability and efficiency in a commercial environment. The world wasn't perfected in the 1950s, and that applies more so to espresso than most things.
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  40. #40
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Matt View Post
    (after all this entire troll thread is based on ripping a statement out of its context and implying it's far more general statement than it is in truth).
    Morning Matt, hardly a troll thread, at least no more than most newspaper headlines we read nowadays, the info is still available on the site even if the revolutionary tamper isn't.

    Cant post a link (site policy) so to put the title of the thread into context here are the paragraphs (at bottom) from Matt Pergers site.

    I know some take criticism of much loved products almost as seriously as an attack on a family member, not meant to be that way.

    It's an espresso basket, no more no less, we all have preferences, hardly an issue of national importance.

    As a parting shot, someone posted VST as the acronym for Very Special Technique, seems to have been edited now, regardless, pretty apt.

    Guess I could also get my knickers in a twist over being referred to as a troll a fuddy duddy and the king of sweeping statements I really don't mind, the thread was meant to engender a bit of lively debate, I reckon it achieved its goal, and if you care to note, I haven't resorted to belittling or name calling.

    "Usage
    The Pergtamp is different to every other tamper you’ve ever used, and should be treated as such. Here are a few simple directions that - when followed - will result in a long-lasting relationship of compressed grinds and tasty espresso.
    The Pergtamp is made with a higher grade of stainless than almost every other tamper on the market. Nevertheless, it still has a sharp edge that should be treated like a quality knife. Never place the Pergtamp on a hard surface, drop it on the floor or hit the edge against hard objects. This will eventually bend the edge, changing the diameter and resulting in a tight fit, jamming, or uneven tamping. I recommend placing the tamper on a cloth, which also helps keep the tamping surface clean and dry. This product will not be replaced due to carelessness or improper use; it is a precision instrument and should be treated as such.

    Always pull the Pergtamp out of the basket slowly. Although the tapered sides increase airflow, there is still a vacuum effect if removed quickly. Watch out for any cracks appearing in the surface of the coffee grinds; this indicates that you are removing the tamper too quickly, and air is being forced up through the grinds instead of around the edges of the tamper. You will need some practice to develop a technique that works, but once it becomes habit you’ll never think about it again. I have used this tamper on busy 800-coffee days at St Ali without a single channelled shot. If you still experience channelling, ensure that you aren’t bumping the portafilter against the bench, machine or group head; most baristas don’t even notice that they’re doing this and will invariably blame the tamper.

    Only use VST baskets. This tamper will not fit in or work well with any other brand of basket. You shouldn’t even be using another basket because they’re all terrible. Without exception.
    If your grinds are not perfectly evenly distributed in the basket, you’re not letting the Pergtamp do its job. Your un-tamped bed of coffee grinds should look like a putting green before you even think about tamping. No holes, divets or mounds – just a perfectly flat bed of coffee with an even density. This should be the case for every single espresso you make. I prefer to use the ‘portafilter tapping’ method of distribution. I find it to be far superior to ‘Stockflething’, dosing tools and any manual movement of the grinds."
    Last edited by Yelta; 14th May 2017 at 12:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Matt View Post
    The world wasn't perfected in the 1950s
    Not a fan of the Rockabilly lifestyle Magic Matt? In the spirit of the rigorous scientific debate applied to most comments here, were you alive in 1950 to compare?





    Only joking Matt, but I can see the attraction of 1950 when all you needed was a V8 convertible - and never needed to worry why your coffee machine wemo drops out (Answer- because you didn't allocate a fixed ip on your router) or your household appliances having conflicts with each other over bandwidth.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Just a thought that crossed my mind! could Matt Perger and Magic Matt be one and the same?
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  43. #43
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Haha if Matt Perger had a fantastic mo like Magic_Matt that would be amazing.

  44. #44
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Morning Matt, hardly a troll thread, at least no more than most newspaper headlines we read nowadays, the info is still available on the site even if the revolutionary tamper isn't.

    Cant post a link (site policy) so to put the title of the thread into context here are the paragraphs (at bottom) from Matt Pergers site.

    I know some take criticism of much loved products almost as seriously as an attack on a family member, not meant to be that way.

    It's an espresso basket, no more no less, we all have preferences, hardly an issue of national importance.

    As a parting shot, someone posted VST as the acronym for Very Special Technique, seems to have been edited now, regardless, seems pretty apt.

    Guess I could also get my knickers in a twist over being referred to as a troll a fuddy duddy and the king of sweeping statements I really don't mind, the thread was meant to engender a bit of lively debate, I reckon it achieved its goal, and if you care to note, I haven't resorted to belittling or name calling.

    "Usage
    The Pergtamp is different to every other tamper you’ve ever used, and should be treated as such. Here are a few simple directions that - when followed - will result in a long-lasting relationship of compressed grinds and tasty espresso.
    The Pergtamp is made with a higher grade of stainless than almost every other tamper on the market. Nevertheless, it still has a sharp edge that should be treated like a quality knife. Never place the Pergtamp on a hard surface, drop it on the floor or hit the edge against hard objects. This will eventually bend the edge, changing the diameter and resulting in a tight fit, jamming, or uneven tamping. I recommend placing the tamper on a cloth, which also helps keep the tamping surface clean and dry. This product will not be replaced due to carelessness or improper use; it is a precision instrument and should be treated as such.

    Always pull the Pergtamp out of the basket slowly. Although the tapered sides increase airflow, there is still a vacuum effect if removed quickly. Watch out for any cracks appearing in the surface of the coffee grinds; this indicates that you are removing the tamper too quickly, and air is being forced up through the grinds instead of around the edges of the tamper. You will need some practice to develop a technique that works, but once it becomes habit you’ll never think about it again. I have used this tamper on busy 800-coffee days at St Ali without a single channelled shot. If you still experience channelling, ensure that you aren’t bumping the portafilter against the bench, machine or group head; most baristas don’t even notice that they’re doing this and will invariably blame the tamper.

    Only use VST baskets. This tamper will not fit in or work well with any other brand of basket. You shouldn’t even be using another basket because they’re all terrible. Without exception.
    If your grinds are not perfectly evenly distributed in the basket, you’re not letting the Pergtamp do its job. Your un-tamped bed of coffee grinds should look like a putting green before you even think about tamping. No holes, divets or mounds – just a perfectly flat bed of coffee with an even density. This should be the case for every single espresso you make. I prefer to use the ‘portafilter tapping’ method of distribution. I find it to be far superior to ‘Stockflething’, dosing tools and any manual movement of the grinds."
    Howdy Yelta, I'm sorry if I offended you - that wasn't my intention and if you read closely, aside from the troll thread dig - which I will duly retract as you've now posted the quote in its full contact - I didn't name anybody, CS member or otherwise. So there's no need to feel belittled or knicker-twisted unless you choose to... 😉 Perhaps I should add more emojis to better convey my facetious tone? 🤔

    I do find it amusing that typically on forums, anonymous members are rightly protected from name calling and abuse but public figures outside the forum are seen as fair game. Not that I think MP cares what anyone here thinks of him, his tampers or his comments on gear - just an observation.

    For the record, I don't own and have never used any VST gear or Matt's tamper; it's my view that both are aimed at and more suited to a commercial environment rather than home use.

    Cheers,
    Matt

  45. #45
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    Not a fan of the Rockabilly lifestyle Magic Matt? In the spirit of the rigorous scientific debate applied to most comments here, were you alive in 1950 to compare?





    Only joking Matt, but I can see the attraction of 1950 when all you needed was a V8 convertible - and never needed to worry why your coffee machine wemo drops out (Answer- because you didn't allocate a fixed ip on your router) or your household appliances having conflicts with each other over bandwidth.
    Well, *some* things perhaps - although I believe the hipsters have well and truly rediscovered '50s fashion... 🤔

    I haven't been to the dark ages either, but I'm reasonably confident that medical science has delivered some measurable improvements 😉
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  46. #46
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Matt View Post
    Howdy Yelta, I'm sorry if I offended you - that wasn't my intention and if you read closely, aside from the troll thread dig - which I will duly retract as you've now posted the quote in its full contact - I didn't name anybody, CS member or otherwise. So there's no need to feel belittled or knicker-twisted unless you choose to...  Perhaps I should add more emojis to better convey my facetious tone? 樂

    I do find it amusing that typically on forums, anonymous members are rightly protected from name calling and abuse but public figures outside the forum are seen as fair game. Not that I think MP cares what anyone here thinks of him, his tampers or his comments on gear - just an observation.

    For the record, I don't own and have never used any VST gear or Matt's tamper; it's my view that both are aimed at and more suited to a commercial environment rather than home use.

    Cheers,
    Matt
    G'Day Matt, no offense taken, occupational hazard, if we have opinions others will differ, guess it a case of if you cant stand the heat stay out of the kitchen.

    A few light hearted jibes are the least of my worries.

    "public figures outside the forum are seen as fair game." public figures, by the very fact they are well known, and public, particularly if they have interesting or controversial views are legitimate targets for comment, agree, disagree, just don't make it malicious.

    You know I still have a double VST, pull it out now and again in an attempt to find exactly why it wont perform for me, sadly I reach the same conclusion each time and it finds its way back into the bits and pieces drawer, should just give the thing away, I honestly don't know why I keep trying it.
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  47. #47
    338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Matt View Post
    Well, *some* things perhaps - although I believe the hipsters have well and truly rediscovered '50s fashion... 樂

    I haven't been to the dark ages either, but I'm reasonably confident that medical science has delivered some measurable improvements 
    Matt, agree with you 100% but also wonder if we did a measure on the 'happiness' factor or how you feel between the eras (I wasn't alive in the 50s to compare) the result would be the same as a just the raw data is medicine or coffee better now? Would someone from the dark ages who was told " You are sick, go home and get rest for a few days and see how you are then" feel better or worse than someone from today's era being told "You have pancreatic cancer stage 4, you have 6 months, 3 days and 2 hours to live"? One could potentially have the glass half full, the others knows it is empty.

    Or in the 1950's case " Thanks Mario, beautiful coffee mate - was worth the 6 month wait to ship your fancy machine from the old country" or today " Thanks Tristian, beautiful double ristretto from your Slayer and really you are wonder with your Mythos One, laser cut filters, distribution tool and puqpress getting this great extraction. I can't help wondering if you preinfused for just a little longer the result might be even better, or maybe dropped the pressure by one bar?"

    Sometimes I wonder if we are happier with less information?
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  48. #48
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    Matt, agree with you 100% but also wonder if we did a measure on the 'happiness' factor or how you feel between the eras (I wasn't alive in the 50s to compare) the result would be the same as a just the raw data is medicine or coffee better now? Would someone from the dark ages who was told " You are sick, go home and get rest for a few days and see how you are then" feel better or worse than someone from today's era being told "You have pancreatic cancer stage 4, you have 6 months, 3 days and 2 hours to live"? One could potentially have the glass half full, the others knows it is empty.

    Or in the 1950's case " Thanks Mario, beautiful coffee mate - was worth the 6 month wait to ship your fancy machine from the old country" or today " Thanks Tristian, beautiful double ristretto from your Slayer and really you are wonder with your Mythos One, laser cut filters, distribution tool and puqpress getting this great extraction. I can't help wondering if you preinfused for just a little longer the result might be even better, or maybe dropped the pressure by one bar?"

    Sometimes I wonder if we are happier with less information?
    Definitely something in that... but I was thinking more of the "you have a headache, so we're going to dig your spleen out with a rusty spoon and no anaesthetic" school of dark ages medicine. I don't have a coffee analogy for that... yet 🤔
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  49. #49
    338
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    As I was reading this thread to get my daily dose of smiles, I have just realised that posters are referring to two different tampers! Yelta's post references the Pergtamp, selling for $185 and with a substantial hunk of 431 stainless on the base, dlight's posts refer to the Barista Hustle $40 tampers with a sliver of 304 stainless on the base. No wonder there is a difference of opinion!
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  50. #50
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Matt View Post
    Definitely something in that... but I was thinking more of the "you have a headache, so we're going to dig your spleen out with a rusty spoon and no anaesthetic" school of dark ages medicine. I don't have a coffee analogy for that... yet 🤔
    How about: getting the roast just so with natural variations in beans takes a bit of work so we'll just burn the crap out of them so they always taste the same.
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