Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Nemox Opera vs Mokita Combi?

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2

    Nemox Opera vs Mokita Combi?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi there,

    As someone who wants to purchase a good machine and grinder, based on the price these 2 combis are attractive (the Opera is around $100 more than the Mokita). With all the rebadging that goes on I was just wondering if anyone could tell me the differences between these 2? The Opera seems to have have all brass internal tubing vs teflon in the Combi (read that in someones comparison) but does this make any difference? Also does the Opera have a better group and portafilter or are they the same?

    Thanks from someone who is still very much in the learning stage! :-/

  2. #2
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: Nemox Opera vs Mokita Combi?

    Hmm- If I had to choose between the two, Id still choose the Rancilio Sylvia with a decent grinder: lux, rocky, cunill et al*;D http://www.coffeeco.com.au/articles/july2002.html

  3. #3
    Senior Member chopinhauer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    101

    Re: Nemox Opera vs Mokita Combi?

    I agree with 2muchcoffee. Unless one moves up to the HX machine price bracket there is almost nothing to compete with a Rancilio Silvia machine / Rocky grinder combination.

    Sure the Mokita combi can grind well and make good coffee, and comes in at around $500 cheaper but it certainly wont last as long, or deliver the same coffee over and over again for years and years as the commercial quality Rancilio combination.

  4. #4
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    16,879

    Re: Nemox Opera vs Mokita Combi?

    Sure the Mokita combi can grind well and make good coffee, and comes in at around $500 cheaper but it certainly wont last as long, or deliver the same coffee over and over again for years and years as the commercial quality Rancilio combination.
    Hi Guys,

    I think there is even more to it than that actually. when you compare a Mokita/Nemox or whatever side-by-side with a Silvia, it is quite evident that the Silvias heritage seems to originate from commercial machines that have been scaled down, where-as the Nemox/Mokita range of machines seem to be scaled up domestic machines by implication.

    You have to look no further than the s/s cover that clads the Silvia, its made from such heavy gauge s/s that it is probably from the same stock they make their commercial machines from. If I could have scraped the extra moolah together, I would definitely have opted for the Silvia over my Mokita, but my budget will stretch only so far. If money is not an issue, I would definitely go with the Silvia.

    Just my $0.02 worth.

    Cheers,
    Mal.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Augustine Heights QLD
    Posts
    302

    Re: Nemox Opera vs Mokita Combi?

    Quote Originally Posted by davidwell link=1113706308/0#0 date=1113706308
    Hi there,

    As someone who wants to purchase a good machine and grinder, based on the price these 2 combis are attractive (the Opera is around $100 more than the Mokita). With all the rebadging that goes on I was just wondering if anyone could tell me the differences between these 2? The Opera seems to have have all brass internal tubing vs teflon in the Combi (read that in someones comparison) but does this make any difference? Also does the Opera have a better group and portafilter or are they the same? *
    *:-/
    Davidwell, I was at this exact cross road about six months ago. Price wise they are comparable, noting the difference you mentioned, which I took as a significant engineering seperator. I would have actually bought the Opera, had the shop I was in at the time not had a Silvia on display also. Chalk and cheese, havent looked back. Yep had to shell out a few extra sheckles to get the grinder, but it has been worth it. And I started out looking at a Saeco in Myers!! She weighs more, full brass, commercially built down, plenty of service places around the country. Depending on where you pick it up from (try the sponsors here for a price) you would be up for only a little more than either of the two comi machines.

    Boris.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    309

    Re: Nemox Opera vs Mokita Combi?

    Id say nay to a combo as at some point you will want a better grinder or machine and with a combo you obviously cant upgrade one half. Similar issue if one component has a catastrophic failure.

    Much better to get a Rocky and a separate espresso machine as the Rocky will survive a hell of a lot of upgraditis compared to a low end espresso machine.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    2,165

    Re: Nemox Opera vs Mokita Combi?

    Davidwell:

    If you want a good comparison on the Combin and the Silvia, check out http://www.coffeeco.com.au/articles/comparison.html

    In the main I would agree with what most people have already said, but I think its more a matter of horses for courses rather than an absolute winner. Perhaps think along these lines:

    * Do you have enough money available for a Silvia and a grinder (approx. $1000). If money isnt an object (within reason, i.e. budget of sub $2k), the Silvia and Rocky seem to be a pretty popular combination.

    * Are you into espresso at all, or will you be making mainly milk drinks? Alan Frews article linked above indicates he cant pick the difference when milks added (and he knows his coffee!), so if this is your target drink Id question whether the extra moneys worth it.

    * Do you see yourself becoming a coffee geek / connoisseur, or do you just like to be able to make good quality drinks without going over the top? As the point above, although many on this forum would wryly quote stories of their upgrade path from their I-just-need-something-cheap $50 Breville thing to I-MUST-HAVE-a-dual-boiler-machine gold-plated Behemoth!

    Ive had a Quaha Napoletana II (aka Mokita Combi) for about 3 years now and have been quite happy with it. Im not a regular espresso drinker, but Ive got no major complaints with it. The few problems I have had have been relatively easy to fit (http://www.coffeetamper.com.au/imat). The brass tubing inside may be a good thing, but Ive never had any problems with the teflon hoses thus far.

    HTH!

    Greg

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    439

    Re: Nemox Opera vs Mokita Combi?

    The combi grinder is actually better for espresso than a Rocky since the adjustment is infinite instead of stepped. The brass/copper plumbing thing is well and truly overstated for domestic user - most prosumer machines have some telflon plumbing in them and it may even be an advantage in isolating the pump vibration from the rest of the system.

    The Rancilio gear is good but the reputation snowballs to a large degree due to user base, leading to them having a status slightly beyond what they deserve :o (check Lucas comments on CoffeeGeek as a Sylvia/Rocky owner with commercial system experience).
    Greg

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,176

    Re: Nemox Opera vs Mokita Combi?

    Id also look a the Gaggia Classic (with its commercial sized group) and maybe the Cunill Tranquillo grinder. The good thing about the 58 mm commercial sized group is that you can buy other filter baskets and other odds and ends for it. The machine has been designed to work well with its small boiler. The only problem is galvanic corrosion of the Aluminium boiler... But its $250 cheaper than the Silvia and the coffee is almost as good (by all accounts).

    my $0.02

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    200

    Re: Nemox Opera vs Mokita Combi?

    I feel I should chime in here as Ive had most of these machines under discussion:

    Gaggia Baby, Rancilio Silvia, Cimbali Junior and a Napoletana.

    Grinder wise Ive gone from Starbucks Barista (Solis 166) to a Mazzer mini then a Cimbali Jnr (only because it came as part of the deal)

    The Napoletana is the most recent purchase and it replaced the Silvia at the weekender which I could no longer justify. Its second hand and has some miles on it and is definitely not in Silvias league of build mass but apart from a substantially lighter portafilter all the important stuff seems well up to the task. Same pump and brass boiler looks very similar to the Silvia, the odd teflon hose really doesnt seem here nor their to me. Im in the process of pulling it down and replacing various orings seals and washers so cant really comment on shot quality as it currently leaks past the group head seal into the cup. :(
    The grinder side seems perfectly adequate for the $ and with a worm drive adustment is infinitely tweakable.

    For me the most important factor was that it came at a good price, this was not for everyday use and as such a lighter duty solution was an acceptable compromise. All comes back to your budget but I suspect youll resist upgradeitis for far longer with a heavier duty rig be it a Silvia or something else semi commercial.

    As to your original question, sorry I have no idea on the difference between the opera and the mokita!

  11. #11
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    16,879

    Re: Nemox Opera vs Mokita Combi?

    Hi again,

    Overall, the Mokita/Nemox range of machines are very well made and capable of producing excellent brews. In terms of quality of build, I think the Silvia is definitley superior in this regard but whether it is $250.00 better, only you can decide that. On a dollar for dollar basis though, I think the Mokita/Nemox machines leave most others for dead... its only short-coming, if you can call it that, is that it doesnt have a professional/commercial group and PF and if thats important to you, then the Silvia is the obvious choice in a non-HX machine.

    Ive been using my Mokita for over a year now and after a short learning curve to identify its idiosyncrasies and my short-comings as an operator, Im very happy with the quality of brews my Mokita produces, and for that matter, so are my family, my relatives, my neighbours and friends who drop in from time to time. Nearly everyone hangs around for another brew as one is never enough.

    My next upgrade, if it ever happens, will be for a reasonably priced HX machine with a good reputation. This is not because Im looking for a better quality brew than the Mokita is already providing but because most of the coffee I make now is milk based and I can really see the benefit of having the capacity to stretch the milk and pull shots at the same time. Would I ever sell the Mokita? No, I dont believe so as my sons and the rest of my family are becoming coffee snobs like me, so I can see the day when and if I upgrade, that the Mokita will be bequeathed to one of them.

    In short, the Mokita/Nemox is a great little machine and represents excellent value for money in the current market and Im very pleased I have one,

    Cheers,
    Mal.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    117

    Re: Nemox Opera vs Mokita Combi?

    I too have a Imat Mokita/Quaha and I am so glad I bought this over the cheaper domestic machines. I had a tight budget and bought this second hand. It only required a rubber seal changed at the steaming wand and for a machine that is now (est.) 6 years old, it is performing faultlessly.

    I am still learning everyday and sometimes I do wonder if my coffee can be improved upon after reading all the glowing reports of the Silvia, to actually upgrade to one. When I ask myself if I am enjoying every cup of coffee made, I have to say yes. That being the case why change?

    The only change I have made and it worked for me is to not pack the ground to max capacity as I find that produce coffee thats way too bitter for my liking. I now just fill it to the top of the basket loosely before tamping.

    I would buy another Imat and use the spare cash for a top grinder.

    My $0.03 cents worth.... :)

    franjae

  13. #13
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    16,879

    Re: Nemox Opera vs Mokita Combi?

    Hi franjae,

    Have to agree with most everything you say. The only thing that I would argue though, if at some time you wanted to or needed to buy a new machine, paying the extra cash for a Silvia when you own a Mokita does not make a lot of sense to me.

    In reality, there is very little to pick between a Mokita and a Silvia in terms of absolute performance and if one is going to spend more money and step up to a higher class of machine then that would really mean going up to an HX machine. In essence, if you had a Silvia and wanted to step up, this is probably what most would do.

    I dont know when and even if I ever want to let go of my Mokita but if that day ever came, Im pretty sure it would be to an HX machine such as a Diadema, Giotto, Expobar, etc etc. Id probably have to rob a bank to do it ;) but, there you are. Ive got my Rocky sitting next to Mokita and they make a very nice couple. When it comes right down to it, I think if I want to improve the quality of my shots and spend the time, effort and money where it is going to do the most good, then I think I should be looking at doing what ever I can to improve my roasting method. Currently using a popper and so far Ive been very happy the results but consistency from roast to roast is not as good as it could be and can be identified in the brew. So, more work needed.

    When will it all end... not too soon I hope.

    Cheers,
    Mal.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    117

    Re: Nemox Opera vs Mokita Combi?

    I agree Mal. I would only "upgrade" to the Silvia if and when my Mokita goes past its use-by-date. I really cant see myself upgrading to any HX machines as I limit myself to only one coffee a day. The cost would see that idea stop dead in its track immediately........unless one falls off the back of a truck, and onto my lap!

    Cheers

    franj

  15. #15
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    16,879

    Re: Nemox Opera vs Mokita Combi?

    Ahhhh...

    Great things trucks with faulty back door latches... if only.

    Mal.

  16. #16
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Earth!
    Posts
    15,667

    Re: Nemox Opera vs Mokita Combi?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal link=1113706308/0#14 date=1114097111
    Ahhhh...

    Great things trucks with faulty back door latches... if only.

    Mal.
    Thats how I got my Cimbali M52. It fell off the back of a truck and suddenly this beautiful $22,500 machine was a rather battered and beaten looking thing that sold for $35. With the purchase and installation of a $150 solenoid and an hour tweaking parts back into place I had a fully functional superautomatic espresso machine. With the replacement of the frothing attachment it will be completely functional in all aspects even if it isnt as pretty as it once was.

    So dont give up. Latches do fail, people do screw up, and things do go crash in the night! ;D ;D

    Java "Collector of crashed things" phile

  17. #17
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2

    Re: Nemox Opera vs Mokita Combi?

    Wow, thanks everyone for their responses, it was much appreciated! It looks like the Silvia and Rocky grinder are the way to go. Although I am not yet a coffeesnob it makes sense to me to pay a few extra dollars to get something that will last longer and it seems to be the most popular package. Now all I need is feedback on where to get a good price on these 2, any siggestions? Thanks again ;D

  18. #18
    Senior Member chopinhauer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    101

    Re: Nemox Opera vs Mokita Combi?

    The prevailing wisdom on this site is that in shopping around the first port of call should be to phone one of the site sponsors, Fresh Coffee or Pinot. I think they both sell the Silvia / Rocky combo, and do so at VERY competitive prices. Plus you get their expert advice and guidance.

    Also it might be worth calling or popping into Mocopan if you live in Sydney or Melbourne. They are the distributor (or one of the distributors) of Rancilio in Australia and last time I went in, they were selling Silvias for around $680. They usually sell for around $750.

    Still I think FC and / or Pinot will be able to beat any price for a Rocky and Silvia combo Mocopan come up with. Try them.

    Good luck

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    2,165

    Re: Nemox Opera vs Mokita Combi?

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    If you have no joy there, you may like to try Alan Frew at Coffee for Connoisseurs www.coffeeco.com.au. Based in Melbourne but ships Australia wide. Prices are quite good too.



Similar Threads

  1. Nemox Dell Opera -v- Lelit Combi -v- Mokita Combi
    By damienclark in forum Brewing Equipment - Midrange ($500-$1500)
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 10th September 2010, 08:40 PM
  2. Nemox Dell Opera and Lelit Combi
    By aslan in forum Brewing Equipment - Midrange ($500-$1500)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 29th September 2009, 07:10 PM
  3. Lelit nemox combi opera
    By 2shot in forum Brewing Equipment - Midrange ($500-$1500)
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 29th September 2009, 07:05 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •