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Thread: What came first? The coffee or the milk?

  1. #1
    Junior Member SunnyCoastDazza's Avatar
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    What came first? The coffee or the milk?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi all,

    Newbie question. Single boiler machine. Would one froth his milk first prior to pulling a shot or vice versa and why?

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    Which one do you feel less concerned about it going flat?

    When I owned a single boiler machine, for many years, my solution was coffee then milk for the following two reasons:
    1. I found it quicker and easier to control the espresso temperature by doing coffee then heating for milk, rather than cooling for the coffee.
    2. Given that the milk is the bulk of the liquid for most coffees past a macchiato, having the milk temperature correct at the point of serving made it more likely that the final drink temperature was right.

    ymmv
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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Definitely coffee first.
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Yep! coffee first.

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    Senior Member deegee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunnyCoastDazza View Post
    Hi all, Newbie question. Single boiler machine. Would one froth his milk first prior to pulling a shot or vice versa and why?
    Are you asking in regard to your Gaggia Classic ??
    SunnyCoastDazza likes this.

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    Senior Member Rocky's Avatar
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    When I do coffee, I generally do a Long-black for myself and a Flat-white for my Son.
    Like Beensean, I am thinking about what is going cold while I complete the process (which is a bit longer for a single-boiler).
    I pull the shots first. The shot for the Flat white isn't a problem because it is getting the hot just-steamed milk into it immediately before serving, however my Long black is sitting on the counter going cold while I finish the Flat white. I deal with this by putting an insulated coaster on top of the cup and wrapping a teatowel gently around it. This leaves it at perfect drinking temp when I'm finished the process.

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    Bond has an interesting technique

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noidle22 View Post
    Bond has an interesting technique
    He certainly does.

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    Junior Member SunnyCoastDazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deegee View Post
    Are you asking in regard to your Gaggia Classic ??
    Yes mate. What ya reckon

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    Senior Member Erimus's Avatar
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    This outfit recommend steam first.

    https://www.wholelattelove.com/blogs...before-brewing

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    My machine for 12 years was a Rancilio Silvia, which performed as it should without a problem. Of course I rinsed out the steam wand immediately after use, thereby also reducing the boiler temperature for longevity. However, their points about temperature accuracy look difficult to achieve or verify. That about temperature surfing bears little resemblance to any other description of the process I previously read, all those being based on a cresting temperature rather than catching a falling point.

    WLL was a key source for me back when I bought the Rancilio. In that context, I think their linked advice a bit daft. Note they do not address final drink temperature at all.
    Last edited by beensean; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:12 PM. Reason: Typo
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  12. #12
    Senior Member deegee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunnyCoastDazza View Post
    Yes mate. What ya reckon
    Re your question - coffee first, then milk.

    A couple more tips :-

    One is to start steaming the milk before the "ready to steam" light comes on. If you wait for it, then begin steaming, the power to the elements will be off, and you are relying on the residual heat of the boiler to generate your steam. The pressure will drop quite noticeably as you steam.
    The time from steam switch on to light on (and power off) is pretty consistent. From my very rusty memory it's about 40 seconds. So if you start steaming after about 30 secs, the power stays on while you steam and keeps the pressure up. When you get it right, the light will come on just before you are finished.

    The Classic has a very small boiler, and the water temp will drop during the shot, Depending on the thermostat dead band, it may be only just hot enough at the start, and well below optimum by the end of the shot. This can result in sour shots with some beans. It can be partly offset by flicking the steam switch on/off for a few seconds just before your pull a shot. There is a good post about this by sponsor Rick Bond :- https://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-equipment-non-machine-specific/32931-some-visual-data-single-boiler-temp-surfing.html
    If you think that your shots are a bit sour, it could be worth looking into.

  13. #13
    Junior Member SunnyCoastDazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deegee View Post
    Re your question - coffee first, then milk.

    A couple more tips :-

    One is to start steaming the milk before the "ready to steam" light comes on. If you wait for it, then begin steaming, the power to the elements will be off, and you are relying on the residual heat of the boiler to generate your steam. The pressure will drop quite noticeably as you steam.
    The time from steam switch on to light on (and power off) is pretty consistent. From my very rusty memory it's about 40 seconds. So if you start steaming after about 30 secs, the power stays on while you steam and keeps the pressure up. When you get it right, the light will come on just before you are finished.

    The Classic has a very small boiler, and the water temp will drop during the shot, Depending on the thermostat dead band, it may be only just hot enough at the start, and well below optimum by the end of the shot. This can result in sour shots with some beans. It can be partly offset by flicking the steam switch on/off for a few seconds just before your pull a shot. There is a good post about this by sponsor Rick Bond :- https://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-equipment-non-machine-specific/32931-some-visual-data-single-boiler-temp-surfing.html
    If you think that your shots are a bit sour, it could be worth looking into.
    Cherz mate, will look into that. I’m currently waiting on my m2m to have a play. I’m more of an espresso/ longblack guy tbh. I saw this bloke on YouTube heat up his gaggia for a shot. Then he flicked on the steam button for 20 seconds prior to pulling his shot. It seems that there is a lot of “tricks” with the little gaggia

  14. #14
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by deegee View Post
    Re your question - coffee first, then milk.

    A couple more tips :-

    One is to start steaming the milk before the "ready to steam" light comes on. If you wait for it, then begin steaming, the power to the elements will be off, and you are relying on the residual heat of the boiler to generate your steam. The pressure will drop quite noticeably as you steam.
    The time from steam switch on to light on (and power off) is pretty consistent. From my very rusty memory it's about 40 seconds. So if you start steaming after about 30 secs, the power stays on while you steam and keeps the pressure up. When you get it right, the light will come on just before you are finished.

    The Classic has a very small boiler, and the water temp will drop during the shot, Depending on the thermostat dead band, it may be only just hot enough at the start, and well below optimum by the end of the shot. This can result in sour shots with some beans. It can be partly offset by flicking the steam switch on/off for a few seconds just before your pull a shot. There is a good post about this by sponsor Rick Bond :- https://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-equipment-non-machine-specific/32931-some-visual-data-single-boiler-temp-surfing.html
    If you think that your shots are a bit sour, it could be worth looking into.
    This is a great idea thanks. I’ve currently progressed from a em6910 and em7000 to a Lelit Anna with PID. I’ve been mulling over the chicken and egg question myself. I tried steaming the milk first this morning, but it seemed to separate by them time I’d finished the shot. I’m also a bit slow while I get the hang of new system. I’ll try this tomorrow morning.



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