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Thread: Temperature sensor For E61 Hx

  1. #1
    Member flashpixx's Avatar
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    Temperature sensor For E61 Hx

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I've seen a couple of threads on here discussing the Coffee Sensor Thermometer. (I added a post in one but no replies)

    The discussions tend the stop around June / July with few (only one?) member commenting about it's efficacy.

    I'm considering purchasing one for my ECM Mechanika V Slim.

    Can a CS member who has used one provide some feedback as to the value - ie improvement in the cup

    Thanks very much

  2. #2
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    I would say without doubt no improvement whatsoever in the cup!��.

    But of course you presumably want to know if, having installed the thermometer and then made appropriate adjustments to the brewing process, will that improve things.

    Maybe. Temperature is only one variant.

    Before buying and installing, I would meaure actual temperature in the portafilter with a thermocouple and voltmeter and see how close or otherwise the machine heats to your ideal temperature.
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  3. #3
    Member flashpixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    I would say without doubt no improvement whatsoever in the cup!��.

    But of course you presumably want to know if, having installed the thermometer and then made appropriate adjustments to the brewing process, will that improve things.

    Maybe. Temperature is only one variant.

    Before buying and installing, I would meaure actual temperature in the portafilter with a thermocouple and voltmeter and see how close or otherwise the machine heats to your ideal temperature.
    Thanks for replying. You're advice is appreciated. I'm wondering however, as my concern (which I didnt put in my opening post) is what is the temp of the group head/water flowing through it when I go to pull the first shot of the day? Im thinking the temp may vary based on how long I've allowed the machine to warm up, and then idle.
    - If I pull a shot without flushing what is the water temp hitting the puck?
    - how long should I flush for?

    While a thermocouple/voltmeter will give me the answers, so would a thermometer? Plus, once I understand how temp impacts, I can use the thermometer for every shot?

    Thanks again

  4. #4
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    G'day 'pixx...

    Those sorts of questions would be better directed towards one or more of our Site Sponsors who stock the machine you're after, as they will have first hand, accurate information. All most of us can do without having the machine and a Scace Device in front of us, is guess...

    Mal.
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  5. #5
    Member flashpixx's Avatar
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    Hi Mal
    thanks for replying.
    I wasn’t looking for a definitive answer with respect to the machine I’m using to the question about temp, more suggesting the temp sensor might be as useful as a thermocouple and voltmeter, perhaps more so.
    As far as I can ascertain, particularly with respect to the first shot of the day, the variables re warm up time and idle time post warm up to first use, are too great to provide an answer.
    Apart from two users, there appears to be a lack of real world information on CS. for the users who have provided feedback, it is quite positive
    cheers
    Gordon


    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    G'day 'pixx...

    Those sorts of questions would be better directed towards one or more of our Site Sponsors who stock the machine you're after, as they will have first hand, accurate information. All most of us can do without having the machine and a Scace Device in front of us, is guess...

    Mal.
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  6. #6
    Site Sponsor CoffeeSensor's Avatar
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    Sorry but i totally disagree.
    Having a sensor before starting the entire busines based on my first product, the digits became what i looked at when making coffee.
    Sure, its not the only thing users should know / look at / be interested in, when wanting to drink a much better coffee.
    Even in the written instructions from inside the box:

    ,, Coffee Sensor is not a wonder ��Remember that the extraction means more than figures / digits. Coffee Sensor should be used in conjunction with all elements that can create a perfect coffee extraction, like the way pouring looks, the sounds your coffee machine makes, the warm up time and so on.
    7. We recommend letting your coffee machine warm up more than the usual used period of 30 minutes. After an hour of heating up, you will always have a way better taste in the cup than a coffee extracted on a cooler group head and system.
    8. Create as fast as possible a pattern or connection between the temperature you see on the LCD and taste. After all, taste is very important in this equation and this is what matters in the end, for you to enjoy the coffee and not least, the entire process of extraction."

    So IMHO, the sensor, Universal or Pro or any other electronic device that shows as near as possible to the puck, the water temperature, will improve taste, if you know how /what to read, process the info and apply changes, with the help of the sensor.
    Thank you.
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  7. #7
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Hello again 'pixx...

    I'd reckon that any one of the recommended Group Water Thermometers discussed above would give you what you're looking for. Should also allow you to fine-tune your machine so that you are getting the best results (for you) in the cup.

    All the best,
    Mal.
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  8. #8
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    Flashpixx - if you decide that you want to give a Coffee Sensor Thermometer a try, I have one that is now surplus to requirements, as I no longer have an E61 machine and don't anticipate getting one any time soon. I'd be prepared to let it go fairly cheap.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flashpixx View Post
    While a thermocouple/voltmeter will give me the answers, so would a thermometer? Plus, once I understand how temp impacts, I can use the thermometer for every shot?
    If you are getting real time brew water temp feedback, you can develop a routine that allows you to fine tune for best results in the cup. This can vary bean to bean and as each batch ages in the bag. As was mentioned in the other thread (https://coffeesnobs.com.au/general-c...tml#post659222), a baseline can be established from which to work. A grouphead thermometer is a neat and easy way of achieving this. Learning how to interpret the information provided is part of the process too. People are surprised when they see it's not a static temp reading but rather a dynamic one (from start to end of brew).
    Last edited by CafeLotta; 2 Weeks Ago at 11:41 AM. Reason: Link added for cross reference
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  10. #10
    Member flashpixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunda View Post
    Flashpixx - if you decide that you want to give a Coffee Sensor Thermometer a try, I have one that is now surplus to requirements, as I no longer have an E61 machine and don't anticipate getting one any time soon. I'd be prepared to let it go fairly cheap.
    Thanks so much for your very kind offer. Apologies for the tardy reply, we’ve been away camping so just catching up with messages here ��
    As mentioned in my PM reply to you, I’ve ordered one �� I went with the pro version as it looks great and will look like it belongs on the ECM.
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  11. #11
    Member flashpixx's Avatar
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    Thanks Tudor for clarifying.
    Ive placed an order for the Pro version. Looking forward to having on my machine ����
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  12. #12
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    [To prevent anyone else getting their hopes up, I've sold my Coffee Sensor.]
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  13. #13
    Senior Member Jackster's Avatar
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    Really good piece of kit. I found that the warming flush does very little.
    It improved my cup for sure. But I think the biggest improvement was the second cup. I rarely make 2 coffees, and the second never tasted as good as the first. I think the temp gauge has improved that.
    It's also good for tuning the pressurestat and getting a nice idle temp.
    It really let's you know what is going on in the machine
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  14. #14
    Member flashpixx's Avatar
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    The temp sensor arrived a couple of days ago, got it installed this afternoon.
    installation was simple and straightforward, however I did measure the depth to the channel In the head to the puck even though the instructions said it was already set for most machines. It was a couple of mm out.
    couple of initial observations

    1. The machine is marketed as getting to temp quickly. Yes it does get to pressure in 10 minutes, but I left it for an hour before I was satisfied the temp was stable.
    2. Idle temp after an hour was 93 degrees indicated
    3. A 5 second flush took the temp to 96 degrees indicated
    4. Once stabilised the temp remained between 93 and 96.

    I need to now experiment on taste, but the most significant issue is I need to make sure I leave the machine to warm up properly.

    F8815961-EDFB-42F7-A9A4-7918D1742BBF.jpg
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  15. #15
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flashpixx View Post
    2. Idle temp after an hour was 93 degrees indicated
    Bear in mind that when the pump isn't running, the thermometer tip has no water contact as the water has drained by gravity (see "infusion channels" in diagram below). The temperature reading is of radiated heat from the grouphead itself which is still useful in itself. Once the boiler pressure has come up, you could always experiment with a flush or two of various duration and then at least 5 mins or longer to stabilise. This should help speed up the initial heat-up of the grouphead. The most important temp reading is when the pump is running and the temp has settled after a couple of seconds to a relatively stable reading. Experimentation is the key to finding the best routine.

    e61 grouphead.jpg

  16. #16
    Member flashpixx's Avatar
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    There is a bit of temp fluctuation during extraction which is to be expected. Thanks for the tip re a long flush to stabilise the temp. Have had some success with a +/- 2 min flush in keeping the temp more stable.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Jackster's Avatar
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    I have found that a 60ml warming flush of even boiling water makes very little difference to the temperature of a heavy brass group. It simply returns to its old temperature very quickly.
    Nothing to do but wait for it to warm itself completely
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