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Thread: Help with VST 15g, ECM Synch & Niche Zero - naked extractions

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    Help with VST 15g, ECM Synch & Niche Zero - naked extractions

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I have recently delved into the realms of coffee and while i'm getting great tasting coffee, I think it can be (a lot) better. I've read HEAPS of threads with people having issues all over the internet so I'm going to attempt to give you all the info you guys need to help me troubleshoot my issues. I'm looking for that perfect naked extraction, and wondering what I'm doing wrong. These photos are of how I typically do it, to be as real as possible for you guys to see the flaws and help me identify how to improve.

    Equiptment
    - ECM Synchronika - 94 degrees
    - Niche Zero Grinder - set to extract 15g basket in 27 seconds from first drip
    - 15g VST basket
    - 58.5mm tamper (more like 58.4 measured)

    Process
    - Weigh beans
    - grind
    - light WDT with bamboo skewer
    - empty niche container into the PF
    - tap vertically once to help settle the grinds. I've done a few different things here like tip in slowly etc.
    - one thing I notice is I can't just level off as the grinds are slightly below the lip of the 15g basket

    Right, onto photos and video

    Beans weight.JPG
    Niche zero setting.jpg
    Pf level close.jpg
    pf level side.jpg
    PF levelled.jpg

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    and here's the video of the extraction...



    and the extracted shot...


    extracted shot.jpg

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    Senior Member flashpixx's Avatar
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    what weight are you getting in the glass?
    I'm no expert, it seems to be flowing a little slowly??
    Cant fault the prep
    maybe the grind is a little fine?

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    Quote Originally Posted by flashpixx View Post
    what weight are you getting in the glass?
    I'm no expert, it seems to be flowing a little slowly??
    Cant fault the prep
    maybe the grind is a little fine?
    That one is a brew ration of 1.7. Seemed to taste good at that range to me. In the video the extraction was 25.7mls

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    What "issues" are you having?


    If you are getting, in your words, "great tasting coffee" then what is the problem?

    I'd count my blessings and keep having that great tasting coffee.

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    Senior Member noonar's Avatar
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    Nailing the distribution in the basket in the portafilter is key, yes stirring in the Niche cup helps but once it is tipped into the PF who knows how it is distributed in there. A few lightish angled bangs on the palm (see other posts - takes practice) helps for me, not just in identifying lack of evenness but also in relieving the unevenness problem. Good luck, your video looks good.
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    Senior Member flashpixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeprequired View Post
    That one is a brew ration of 1.7. Seemed to taste good at that range to me. In the video the extraction was 25.7mls
    brew ratio refers to weight in => weight out ie the weight in 15g @ 1.7 would be 25g in your glass.

    From Five Senses:
    Simply put, the brew ratio is the relationship between the amount of dry coffee used (the dose) and the amount of coffee extracted (the yield).
    If you are getting 20g or less in the glass it might be an issue....

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    Quote Originally Posted by flashpixx View Post
    brew ratio refers to weight in => weight out ie the weight in 15g @ 1.7 would be 25g in your glass.

    From Five Senses:

    If you are getting 20g or less in the glass it might be an issue....
    yep so 15g in the basket and 25.7g out. 1:1.7

    ive tried dosing down a touch and that seems to be helping. Tried exactly 15.0g and it was a much better looking pour. I’ll try to do another video @ 15g, but there’s only so much coffee one can handle I had a laugh
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    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    What "issues" are you having?


    If you are getting, in your words, "great tasting coffee" then what is the problem?

    I'd count my blessings and keep having that great tasting coffee.
    once I nail a great shot and can truly compare I’ll keep trying, but yeah the coffee is nice. I did. Also say I think it could be better. I like to learn, through practice and the benefit of others.

    having said that I am enjoying the coffee ☕️
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    Senior Member woodhouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeprequired View Post
    in 27 seconds from first drip
    nope. start counting from when you start the pump.
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodhouse View Post
    nope. start counting from when you start the pump.
    ah right. So 32-33 seconds. Generally getting the first drip around 6 seconds. Then trying to pick when it starts to blonde as well.

    I must be watching too many videos as most say 25-30 seconds of extraction time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodhouse View Post
    nope. start counting from when you start the pump.
    Yup. Nope.

    Both right answers as is usual with coffee.

    I've had lots of people including baristas tell me from first drip but not everyone agrees.

    It is like with competition baskets that is what they are for and cafes. I still use mine sometimes.

    Then if you use a competition basket do you go by their recommended weights?...or dose like I do to the top and smooth with finger as this involves no weighing and is quick and easy...and works?

    One thing for sure the smaller the weights in the basket, the better your technique has to be and the more issues you may get. A lot of baristas overload competition baskets too and a lot of other baristas disagree with that.
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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Shot timing starts from the moment you use the brew button, lever or any other device to start the pump.

    It does not start from when the first drip emerges from the portafilter.

    In my experience the first drip comes about 6-7 seconds after I press the touchpad. So for a ballpark 30 seconds extraction, the pump keeps going for another 23-24 seconds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    Yup. Nope.

    Both right answers as is usual with coffee.

    I've had lots of people including baristas tell me from first drip but not everyone agrees.

    It is like with competition baskets that is what they are for and cafes. I still use mine sometimes.

    Then if you use a competition basket do you go by their recommended weights?...or dose like I do to the top and smooth with finger as this involves no weighing and is quick and easy...and works?

    One thing for sure the smaller the weights in the basket, the better your technique has to be and the more issues you may get. A lot of baristas overload competition baskets too and a lot of other baristas disagree with that.

    yeah interesting. I tried the exact dose and got an improvement. I’ve got a leveller coming too to help with distribution IF it’s below the level of the basket. I’ll give grinding coarser s go and overdose to make levelling easier too. See how that goes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeprequired View Post
    yeah interesting. I tried the exact dose and got an improvement. I’ve got a leveller coming too to help with distribution IF it’s below the level of the basket. I’ll give grinding coarser s go and overdose to make levelling easier too. See how that goes.
    I think experimenting can be fun and espresso is a century old, ideas come and go on what is right and wrong. In the end you get to do what works for you and that can get complicated as there is an interplay between your equipment, skills and goals as well as your own taste.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    I think experimenting can be fun and espresso is a century old, ideas come and go on what is right and wrong. In the end you get to do what works for you and that can get complicated as there is an interplay between your equipment, skills and goals as well as your own taste.
    what would be good is to work out why I’m not getting really good naked pulls #grrrr

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    Senior Member woodhouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    Yup. Nope.

    Both right answers as is usual with coffee.

    I've had lots of people including baristas tell me from first drip but not everyone agrees.
    no. both answers are not right. shot time starts from when the pump engages and starts dispersing water over the puck. the drips can emerge from the bottom at any time due to a host of factors that involve grind size, distribution, tamping pressure, channelling, grounds temperature, portafilter temperature, water temperature, and probably a bunch more that no-one has considered. this is not a reliable way to keep track of your shots!

    coffee has changed a lot over the last few years and there are still a bunch of career dyed-in-the-wool baristas who stick by their old-school methods - in my experience, these are the suburb cafes with Linea Classics that buy dark-roasted coffee and cut their shots short because they taste too bitter otherwise.

    It is like with competition baskets that is what they are for and cafes. I still use mine sometimes.

    Then if you use a competition basket do you go by their recommended weights?...or dose like I do to the top and smooth with finger as this involves no weighing and is quick and easy...and works?
    yeah you go by their recommended weights; that's why it's printed on the side. that's what the basket is designed for - an optimal bed depth that is resistant enough to channelling yet has enough headspace to swell upwards without compromising its tamped shape against the shower screen (which encourages channelling).

    One thing for sure the smaller the weights in the basket, the better your technique has to be and the more issues you may get. A lot of baristas overload competition baskets too and a lot of other baristas disagree with that.
    yeah agreed that underdosing is hard and overdosing is bad for the reasons above. both will suffer from channelling, though if you are a wizard at distribution, the underdose has a better chance of extracting properly.
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    So are there any clues from those photos and that video that will help me fix my shots?

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Judging the amount of coffee in the basket by volume reminds me of the old trick question: what weighs more, a pound of lead or a pound of feathers.

    The answer is obvious... But the volume of feathers is huge compared to the lead.

    And so it is with ground coffee...a given weight will produce different volumes in the basket, influenced by the origin, roast profile, age post roast, humidity and what mood the grinder is in.

    Don't trust your eye...trust your scales.
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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodhouse View Post
    yeah you go by their recommended weights; that's why it's printed on the side. that's what the basket is designed for - an optimal bed depth that is resistant enough to channelling yet has enough headspace to swell upwards without compromising its tamped shape against the shower screen (which encourages channelling.
    Have a look here with some further discussion here. The puck does not swell/move up into the screen until after the shot has finished.


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    Senior Member woodhouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javaphile View Post
    Have a look here with some further discussion here. The puck does not swell/move up into the screen until after the shot has finished.


    Java "Killing another myth" phile
    i stand corrected.

    in that case, the only real danger of overdosing is deforming the dry puck against the shower screen. though given that VST adjusts the hole diameters of their baskets according to the rated dose, I could imagine you would run into slower flows (undermining the quick-flow advantage of the VSTs) if you updosed more than recommended, but not enough to hit the shower screen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    Judging the amount of coffee in the basket by volume reminds me of the old trick question: what weighs more, a pound of lead or a pound of feathers.

    The answer is obvious... But the volume of feathers is huge compared to the lead.

    And so it is with ground coffee...a given weight will produce different volumes in the basket, influenced by the origin, roast profile, age post roast, humidity and what mood the grinder is in.

    Don't trust your eye...trust your scales.
    Well volumetric dosing works just fine. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with scales and weighing it either but if you get good tasting reproducible shots then it is not an issue.

    Weighing give you more options for sure as you don't have to fill the basket.

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    I've often wondered about the suction on the puck or at least on the area above it, created by the 3-way valve opening to release pressure.

    The water expelled through the stem of the group is always clean. No sign of dark coffee coloured water.

    And the solenoid valves are always spotlessly bright.

    Now you would think that all that pressure on the puck during brewing would result in at least some brew water being suck down when the valve opens.

    Yet...no sign of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    I've often wondered about the suction on the puck or at least on the area above it, created by the 3-way valve opening to release pressure.

    The water expelled through the stem of the group is always clean. No sign of dark coffee coloured water.

    And the solenoid valves are always spotlessly bright.

    Now you would think that all that pressure on the puck during brewing would result in at least some brew water being suck down when the valve opens.

    Yet...no sign of it.
    I think most of the time the puck is not suck...

    It stays in place my guess but with maybe very low dosing it might not. I have seen times when it has detached and made a mess sticking to the screen.

    I have also seen times when the basket is obviously overloaded and it is obvious when it is overloaded. If I dose volumetrically it compacts so that the ring in the basket is exposed so there is quite a bit of headspace. This incidentally is a practice both endorsed and condemned by World champ baristas. It goes to show there is no real right way to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeprequired View Post
    So are there any clues from those photos and that video that will help me fix my shots?
    Yes a few. The dead spots on the bottom of the basket during the pour tell us your distribution could be improved. From the photo of the tamper in and out of the basket your tamp is not quite level (looking down from above like a clock with the portafilter handle at 6 the tamper is tilted toward the 2). Instead of leveling with your finger I would advise using the Barista Hustle palm tapping method, takes some practice but gets good results (I think noonar was referring to this). Most of all keep practicing and keep looking to improve. I think you need to stir the grounds more in the cup with your bamboo skewer, you want them light and fluffy before you tip them in. I found inverting the cup caused more dead spots than tapping the side of the cup to tip the grounds into the basket, then side tapping to distribute.
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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Or it ends up in the grouphead above the screen. Depending on how close to the screen the top of the puck is there may be very little brown water there to get sucked up. Or your system releases the pressure slightly slower. Or probably any number of other reasons. The 2nd link in my previous post has a discussion about some of the factors and effects of various pressure relief processes on the puck, which would also apply to the liquid on top of the puck, that might also help answer your question.

    Consider yourself lucky that your machine as you use it doesn't have coffee reaching the 3-way valve as many (Perhaps even most?) do. Fewer problems for you.


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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Thanks Javaphile. I've often been tempted to measure the headroom as a first step... So out with the verneer tomorrow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    Yes a few. The dead spots on the bottom of the basket during the pour tell us your distribution could be improved. From the photo of the tamper in and out of the basket your tamp is not quite level (looking down from above like a clock with the portafilter handle at 6 the tamper is tilted toward the 2). Instead of leveling with your finger I would advise using the Barista Hustle palm tapping method, takes some practice but gets good results (I think noonar was referring to this). Most of all keep practicing and keep looking to improve. I think you need to stir the grounds more in the cup with your bamboo skewer, you want them light and fluffy before you tip them in. I found inverting the cup caused more dead spots than tapping the side of the cup to tip the grounds into the basket, then side tapping to distribute.
    yeah the grinds are actually most ‘fluffy’ before doing WDT inside the container. I’ve tried tipping the grinds in and doing WDT in the PF too. It sounds like I could benefit from a dosing ring and do the WDT inside the basket better too.

    also sounds like the leveller will be a really helpful tool.

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    With the risk of making things more confusing for the op. In terms of shot times/recipes I think a few of the comments are off the mark.

    If you want to hit a roaster recipe in terms of time (and weight in/weight out) if you count the pre-infusion which is likely 8 seconds, you will need to remove it at the end. So if you count from flipping lever and have it on for 30 seconds, then minus the 8 second pre-infusion you are only running under full pressure for 22 seconds. Which means you are unlikely to get a similar shot to the roasters tasting notes and recipe. So either count pre-infusion to end of shot and then remove pre-infusion time at the end or count from when the pump ramps to full pressure up to the end of the shot.

    Since only some domestic machines have pre-infusion and a bunch of commercial machines don't have pre-infusion these recipes are actually referring to time under full pump pressure. If you think about it in an extreme example say you configure you pre-infusion to be 20 seconds, you run a total of 30 seconds, then you have 10 seconds under full pressure you prob end up with 6-7 grams of coffee out. This is not a proper coffee.

    According to Clive Coffee pre-infusion is;

    Pre-infusion refers to the process of gently soaking the puck of ground coffee in your portafilter before applying the full desired brewing pressure. The goal is to ensure that water evenly penetrates the grounds to ensure that the entire bed has the same amount of water flowing through it once extraction begins.
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    Yes a few. The dead spots on the bottom of the basket during the pour tell us your distribution could be improved. From the photo of the tamper in and out of the basket your tamp is not quite level (looking down from above like a clock with the portafilter handle at 6 the tamper is tilted toward the 2). Instead of leveling with your finger I would advise using the Barista Hustle palm tapping method, takes some practice but gets good results (I think noonar was referring to this). Most of all keep practicing and keep looking to improve. I think you need to stir the grounds more in the cup with your bamboo skewer, you want them light and fluffy before you tip them in. I found inverting the cup caused more dead spots than tapping the side of the cup to tip the grounds into the basket, then side tapping to distribute.
    Thanks level3ninja. I’ve responded to this again as I believe you’ve put me on the right path. For 2 consecutive coffees I’ve dosed a bit less but still 15.0-15.3 grams, but really concentrated on the distribution.

    so I’m WDT’ing in the niche container, the pouring in the grinds and WDT/levelling as I go. I’m certain the extractions are better, and now the coffee is consistently nice.

    room for improvement? Hell yes! I won’t be satisfied until I get a perfect aesthetic shot to see what & if it makes a flavour improvement.

    for now though I’m on the up and up. I tried to get a video this time around but missed the record button. Oh well, there’s always the next coffee.

    I’m now convinced a dosing funnel and WDT in the basket will be required before tamping so I’m off to get a dosing ring so I can WDT in the basket and simplify my workflow.

    I did manage to get a shot of the extracted coffee this morning.
    IMG_4190.jpg
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    That's my take on it too Roosterben...
    Seems logical to me and is what I've used for 15+ years.

    Mal.
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    I think you would be better off using the Niche dosing tin and an OCD style distribution tool. Although a naked portafilter with a dosing ring could work, have seen a few people using this setup, haven't tried it my self.

    Nice looking shot of coffee there!

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    Quote Originally Posted by roosterben View Post
    With the risk of making things more confusing for the op. In terms of shot times/recipes I think a few of the comments are off the mark.

    If you want to hit a roaster recipe in terms of time (and weight in/weight out) if you count the pre-infusion which is likely 8 seconds, you will need to remove it at the end. So if you count from flipping lever and have it on for 30 seconds, then minus the 8 second pre-infusion you are only running under full pressure for 22 seconds. Which means you are unlikely to get a similar shot to the roasters tasting notes and recipe. So either count pre-infusion to end of shot and then remove pre-infusion time at the end or count from when the pump ramps to full pressure up to the end of the shot.

    Since only some domestic machines have pre-infusion and a bunch of commercial machines don't have pre-infusion these recipes are actually referring to time under full pump pressure. If you think about it in an extreme example say you configure you pre-infusion to be 20 seconds, you run a total of 30 seconds, then you have 10 seconds under full pressure you prob end up with 6-7 grams of coffee out. This is not a proper coffee.

    According to Clive Coffee pre-infusion is;

    Pre-infusion refers to the process of gently soaking the puck of ground coffee in your portafilter before applying the full desired brewing pressure. The goal is to ensure that water evenly penetrates the grounds to ensure that the entire bed has the same amount of water flowing through it once extraction begins.
    so the question is then, the ECM sycnhronika... What is the pre-infusion time? Mine is not plumbed. Not sure if that makes a difference or not...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeprequired View Post
    so the question is then, the ECM sycnhronika... What is the pre-infusion time? Mine is not plumbed. Not sure if that makes a difference or not...
    The pump takes several seconds to achieve maximum pressure and you can normally hear that in the noise of the pump as it changes in pitch. I have a plumbed in rotary but the mechanics are the same.

    Pre-infusion is confusing as it is/was/might be a feature of some E61 groups and the mechanics are controlled inside the head. I read a few articles on it and all I can say is that there is a pressurising period of time where full pressure is being achieved, it doesn't happen instantly. You could say that period doesn't count as the shot isn't experiencing full pressure. Saying it would be six seconds is probably a bit long and ten seconds definitely is.

    I get close to 'first drip' a few seconds after full pressure, maybe six seconds is ideal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roosterben View Post
    I think you would be better off using the Niche dosing tin and an OCD style distribution tool. Although a naked portafilter with a dosing ring could work, have seen a few people using this setup, haven't tried it my self.

    Nice looking shot of coffee there!
    yes ive got 'the jack' leveller on order - The Jack – Leveler – Asso Coffee

    but still think maybe the best place to WDT is in the PF right before levelling/tamping?

    There is also the fact that the dosing funnel I like is awesome from chris @ talk coffee
    Last edited by Javaphile; 1 Week Ago at 12:20 PM. Reason: Commercial link removed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeprequired View Post
    so the question is then, the ECM sycnhronika... What is the pre-infusion time? Mine is not plumbed. Not sure if that makes a difference or not...
    Two ways I use to measure pre-infusion

    1. time from when I pull the lever until the pressure gauge starts to rise circa... 6 sec
    2. time from when I pull the lever to first signs of coffee flow in the bottom of the basket circa... 8 sec

    as I understand it pre-infusion is done without pressure ie it wets the coffee in the basket but doesn't force water through it.

    Plumbed or not would make no difference

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    I think the original question was shot times and when you start timing the shot. I think it is quite right to start timing when it is at 'full pressure'. My Wega doesn't have a pressure gauge for the group but you can tell from the sound when it is up to pressure. The Pre-Infusion may or may not be part of that initial process depending on your machine. Six seconds to first drip is therefore about right (for my machine) but after that it is quite right that the time should be added to the shot time. I can with my setup get shots that take 20 - 30 seconds or longer to first drip. Obviously that isn't the objective but it can happen when experimenting with a new basket or bean.

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    Sooooo this will definely be my last coffee for the day I had a laugh. Here's the video. I know I need a stand or something, holding the phone is definiely not ideal and apologies in advance for taking the phone away from the extraction as well. I needed to check timing and moved. oops.

    So total shot time was 40 seconds on the PID but didn't get first drip until 11s. Visually this was my best extraction yet with tiger striping in the flow and the cup. Forgot to get a shot of that too, but anyway, videos are fun so here goes..

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    I think that the grind is a bit fine. 11 seconds to first drip and a total time of 40 seconds is definitely out of the recommended zone and the volume looks like ristretto even for that time although it is hard to tell from the video.

    What did it taste like?

    I went from my standard Wega double basket to my IMS B70 2T H24.5 basket, both hold about 18 grams (I just checked the weight this morning on the IMS and it is less than I thought. I dose volumetrically.

    I just moved the setting significantly finer to start with and now it is back to the setting for the standard Wega basket!
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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    I think that the grind is a bit fine. 11 seconds to first drip and a total time of 40 seconds is definitely out of the recommended zone and the volume looks like ristretto even for that time although it is hard to tell from the video.

    What did it taste like?

    I went from my standard Wega double basket to my IMS B70 2T H24.5 basket, both hold about 18 grams (I just checked the weight this morning on the IMS and it is less than I thought. I dose volumetrically.

    I just moved the setting significantly finer to start with and now it is back to the setting for the standard Wega basket!
    yeah the grind setting is the same as before so either the beans are drying out or I tamped it too hard. We will lean toward user error on this one, i'm happy to wear the blame The extraction was 27g from 15g which is where i like this coffee for some reason.

    as far as taste goes i did feel like it was a tad overextracted in terms of bitterness, but there were also some really nice flavours in there. I would think somewhere between the first video and this one should be good to go.

    finicky business this.... looked the goods though ...

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeprequired View Post
    yeah the grind setting is the same as before so either the beans are drying out or I tamped it too hard. We will lean toward user error on this one, i'm happy to wear the blame

    as far as taste goes i did feel like it was a tad overextracted in terms of bitterness, but there were also some really nice flavours in there. I would think somewhere between the first video and this one should be good to go.

    finicky business this.... looked the goods though ...
    I think starting with a 15g VST basket is a challenge. A few people I know won't even use those smaller baskets as they are too tricky. I know some people who persevere getting the perfect extraction out of a single basket.... The singles baskets mostly get put in storage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    I think starting with a 15g VST basket is a challenge. A few people I know won't even use those smaller baskets as they are too tricky. I know some people who persevere getting the perfect extraction out of a single basket.... The singles baskets mostly get put in storage.
    I don't mind the single basket. I have a Funnel and tamper specifically for it and i'm able to WDT in basket. Those shots seem to come out ok visually but they do seem a bit bitter and blonde QUICKLY

    I could post a video of that!!??

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    It is a nice looking shot but agree with wattgn bit too long at 40 seconds, if I read correctly your pre-infusion was 6 seconds so that mean your shot time under full pressure is 34 seconds. If you shoot for the 27 grams out in say 33 seconds total (6 sec pre infusion and 27 seconds full pump pressure) I reckon it will be tastier and reduce the blonding. This can depend on the beans, but I think light roasts can be handle longer shot times and ristretto type yields out a bit better. But if you are using a medium/dark roast you are probably over extracting a bit. Just go a tad coarser on grinder and shorten the shot time.
    flashpixx likes this.

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    Senior Member woodhouse's Avatar
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    the main thing to look for is astringency. keep pushing it until you start feeling that drying sensation between your tongue and the roof of your mouth - like when you eat raw spinach or grapes. If you push a roasty-tasting (but not astringent) shot a bit harder, you may end up with more sweetness which balances it out. happened to me this week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodhouse View Post
    the main thing to look for is astringency. keep pushing it until you start feeling that drying sensation between your tongue and the roof of your mouth - like when you eat raw spinach or grapes. If you push a roasty-tasting (but not astringent) shot a bit harder, you may end up with more sweetness which balances it out. happened to me this week.
    yeah I’m onto the bitterness and sourness by virtue of having some bad shots early on. Astringency I don’t have a reference for though. I need someone to come out and really whack out a range of shots to learn the flavours and issues, how to replicate them and then how to really dial in and push for the finer points and flavours.

    ok so here’s this mornings video. Coffee just didn’t taste as good today for some reason. Maybe I’m having an off day, if I had to guess I’d say I over extracted it just a tad. Looked like a good shot in the glass, it’s very hard to end the shot at right time when filming.

    Was 34 seconds 15.2g in, 29.3g out. Maybe 4g too much for this coffee I think.

    level3ninja likes this.

  47. #47
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    Going by last video, you can keep grind the same,
    drop dose to 14g with an Aeropress paper filter on top, stop at 28g out and forget about how long it takes to come out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve82 View Post
    Going by last video, you can keep grind the same,
    drop dose to 14g with an Aeropress paper filter on top, stop at 28g out and forget about how long it takes to come out.
    havent heard about the aero press paper before, what’s the go there?

  49. #49
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    Morning SR, do yourself a favour and buy a 14 to 18 gram Espresso parts basket, with the equipment you have pulling good shots should be as easy as falling off a log.

    The weak link in your setup is the basket.

    Forget all the hocuspocus and unnecessary steps weigh, grind, dose, tamp, pull shot, that's all it takes, get back to basics.
    Dimal and robusto like this.

  50. #50
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeprequired View Post
    yeah I’m onto the bitterness and sourness by virtue of having some bad shots early on. Astringency I don’t have a reference for though. I need someone to come out and really whack out a range of shots to learn the flavours and issues, how to replicate them and then how to really dial in and push for the finer points and flavours.
    Can I suggest this exercise as highly beneficial https://youtu.be/2aD33p4_fJo

    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeprequired View Post
    ok so here’s this mornings video. Coffee just didn’t taste as good today for some reason. Maybe I’m having an off day, if I had to guess I’d say I over extracted it just a tad. Looked like a good shot in the glass
    Judging by the dead spots at the start the distribution of that shot was a bit off, so regardless of the numbers and how it looked it will not have been evenly extracted and will taste off.
    Dimal and CafeLotta like this.



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