Thats a helpful little table youve got there GP
Following on from another thread, I thought Id post the capacities of the filter baskets I have lying around.
Process: doser filled with fresh ground coffee. Digital kitchen scales (2g resolution) zeroed with filter basket on scales, then basket filled with coffee and scraped with back of knife to be level and weighed (unsettled weight). Basket then tapped three times moderately firmly on bench, refilled, rescraped and reweighed.
Basket Unsettled weight (g) Settled weight (g)
Rancilio single (old): 8 12
Synesso single: 10 14
La Marzocco single: 12 14
Rancilio double: 14 18
Synesso ridgeless double: 16 20
Synesso ridged double: 16 20
La Marzocco double: 16 20
Synesso triple: 20 24
Bear in mind the relatively coarse resolution of the scales used for these readings, but this should still give a rough comparitive guide of the capacities of these baskets and the rough capacity increase achievable by a moderate settling technique, without making any comment on the quality of extractions from these baskets which is a separate question.
Thats a helpful little table youve got there GP
Hi Greg -- a fascinating little table -- I always assumed I had a Rancilio double basket, just because thats what came with the machine, but my unsettled weight is close to 17g so maybe not :-?
I was also wondering if the 2 stage fill, level, tap tap tap, refill, level procedure is part of your standard coffee making procedure, or was the idea just to see how much coffee would fit in each basket?
Its pretty much my standard updosing method, although the tapping is normally of the portafilter on the dosing forks of the Mazzer. This time it was just tapping the basket on the bench. You can pack a lot more in than that of course with more taps - at work with the Presso I do a total of 20 taps (10+5+5) in the three stages mentioned below, and I think that adds about an extra 25% to an empty basket (at a guess).
My actual procedure (designed to minimise coffee wasteage but ensure an evenly packed basket at the expense of time) is dose until basket has a heap, scrape off with the back of a knife so basket is level, tap twice to settle, redose and scrape, tap a third time, redose and scrape, tamp! :o Its a lot quicker to just really overheap the basket, tap 2-3x and scrape but you end up wasting more coffee, and at home I can afford the extra 30 seconds to do it this way.
If you have a look at http://www.coffeetamper.com.au/information/faq.html#basket-discrepancies there are some photos of genuine Silvia baskets showing the factory stampings. If yours doesnt have these its an aftermarket one (especially if you bought the machine from Mocopan!).
Great idea, although Id like to see this done with some finer resolution scales--on those scales EVERY basket is 4gm heavier after tamping--regardless of starting size!
:o indeed!Originally Posted by Greg Pullman link=1217035423/0#3 date=1217054975
Turned out after studying Gregs basket-discrepancies page and peering closely at my baskets that they are indeed Rancilio (or so says the stamp) so still puzzled by the 14g unpacked level weight. I was going to try the weighing experiment on my 1g scales today, but it didnt happen -- these days the autopilot takes over as soon as Silvias boiler light goes out ;D
But a pre-grind beans weight of 18g gives me a nice level unpacked basket ready for tamping with maybe 1g over the side. Id hate to see what 14g would look like -- lost?? :-?
And yes this is after brushing out the throat of the grinder and the doser. So if Ms Maz is still hiding 3g in there Ill be quite peeved...
Curious. The best way to be absolutely sure would be to put just the empty filter basket on the scales, zero the scales, then dose the basket without updosing and then reweigh the dosed basket. Thatll give you the weight of just the coffee in the basket.
P.S. When Im in a hurry or have multiple shots to pull, my technique is dose until overflowing, tap 3x (at which time coffee should still be above the basket at all points), scrape, tamp. You do however have about 20% wasteage with that method, so its fine if there are several shots to do because you can reuse the wasteage straight away before it goes stale but theres no point if youre only pulling one shot and I dont like throwing away that much coffee when I dont need to.
Finally got round to trying this -- zeroed the scales with my dble basket on, ground 18g of the Yirg, dosed into the basket, leveled (trying not to accidentally press down!), got 17g. (mightve been 16.5, of course; still only 1g res)
But I did have a further thought -- grinder setting and general "fluffyness" varies significantly for different SOs -- so I now wonder if Id get something quite different if I was using the Monsoon Malabar, for instance (3 notches finer on my Maz, IIRC).
After diligent updosing and tamping any differences should disappear, but *beforehand* a fine fluffy grind could be substantially more "bulky" (maybe?)
Though I had just about given up updosing and switched to a straight level & tamp in the hope of achieving consistency -- but if my "fluffyness" theory is correct then that wont work either. Aarrggh.
Interesting thought simone. I would have expected that a finer grind allows for more to go into the basket.
Out of curiosity, I dialled in the mazzer this morning and using a synesso ridgeless double basket ended up with 21gm in the basket (I have scales that have 1gm increments). Ground the same coffee 4 notches coarser and got 19gm in the basket. Then ground the same coffee about 4 notches finer and ended up with...21gm in the basket!
If I understand correctly, Gregs measurements at the top of the thread would be give or take a gram, as I believe the scales used were in 2gm increments.
At the end of the day I dont really have a lot of confidence in any of the digital scales that can be purchased on the bay or at the local shopping centre. I think youd need to use something like jewellers scales, or scales from a science lab, to have a better chance for accuracy.
Yeah Id agree Den. It wasnt really intended to be an absolute reference, but really just what was in the conclusion - a rough comparative guide of the capacities of these baskets and the rough capacity increase achievable by a moderate settling technique.
I used the same grind setting and beans for all tests and the same settling technique, so you can look at that table with some confidence and draw conclusions such as you get around 4g extra in the basket by updosing, and LM and Synesso double baskets have a bit more capacity than the Rancilio double. But there are many other variables that will affect the absolute capacity each basket will hold in each situation, including those mentioned of grind density and bean type, as well as grinder (clumpy staticy grinders will end up with more cavities before settling so will hold a bit less initially), and it never tried to cover all those bases (otherwise Id still be there testing now I reckon!)