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Thread: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

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    Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I glanced over at the stainless steel jug (one I got with my EM6910) which was sitting on top of my machine,..and I said to myself in a loud and scary voice ...."WTFrock?!!" "Is that rust?" *:o

    Now I am no expert in metals,..but I was under the impression that stainless steel = no rust. erm.... clearly there must be a quality control issue here and someone on the production line obviously snuck a molten barrel of regular steel in the mix for my jug. It has surface rust all around the top 1.5cm of the inside. I noticed little marks a while ago,..but dismissed it as being my chocolate sprinkling action being a little outta control.

    Mmm mmm.. yummy... who needs a sprinkle of chocolate on a capuccino when you can get that devine rust colour on the foam with reeeeeeeal rust. *::)

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Ive been usin the same 600ml sunbeam jug for nearly 3 years and so far no rust. In fact it still looks new-ish.
    Maybe they had a batch made from a lesser grade stainless.

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Stainless steel is prone to rust - its much less rust-prone than ordinary steel and there are different grades of stainless steel.

    Stainless steel contains iron + carbon + chromium and sometimes other elements such as nickel or manganese or molybdenum

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Stainless Steel has around a dozen recognised "standards" then there is "Stainless Steel" as made in Asia ;) To save money remove some of the Nickel and Chromium and you get psuedo stainless steel *::) BTW My new jug kept getting a slight rust stain from the cut edge for a couple of weeks until the milk sealed it over * :P

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Most milk jugs out there that are SS are 18/10 grade (you can see it on the underside of your jug next to the "Made in China"). Which isnt that bad, its just not like the other common 316 marine grade which is the goods. Also, smooth SS (as in polished) will be less prone to corrosion. This is all from light fittings that I sell (Im a lighting consultant). The common form of corrosion is what is known as tea staining where the SS turns a bit browny.

    So in short, theres stainless steel; and then theres stainless steel.

    (Oh and incase you didnt see in the other thread, "Welcome back Remy" missed having you around. Thought you had fallen off the roof mucking around with tv ariels again.)

    YeeZa

    (Just read the other thread Remy, oops;))

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Lots of different grades of stainless. Hit it with a green scrubby to remove the rust, and remember to keep it dry between sessions. It would also be a good idea to not store it on top of your machine. SS will only start to rust like that if you leave it wet, or if its in contact with a metal of a different sort (called galvanic corrosion, leaving wet utensils in your kitchen sink works a good demonstration here :P)

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    A bit of overkill but I I was watching New Inventors last week. Someone came up with an invention that will repair welded or cut stainless steel. Apparently some sort of acid is used to clean and repair stainless steel.

    If you are interested, check the spiel on How it works at http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s2324925.htm

    Anyway, its FYI only. Buying a new jug would be much cheaper/easier, and recommended

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Quote Originally Posted by YeeZa link=1219369404/0#4 date=1219380701
    (Im a lighting consultant).
    That must be a brilliant job

    Sorry, couldnt help myself. Im a bad joke tragic as if you didnt already know *::)

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnaus link=1219369404/0#7 date=1219384480
    Quote Originally Posted by YeeZa link=1219369404/0#4 date=1219380701
    (Im a lighting consultant).
    That must be a brilliant job

    Sorry, couldnt help myself. Im a bad joke tragic as if you didnt already know *::)
    Not kidding - there was a lighting company called Brilliant lighting - theyve now changed their name.

    And for the record, its not that brilliant ;) I know plenty of other things Id like to be doing.... ::)

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Remy there are literally thousands of Stainless steels out there.The rust is most likely caused by leaving the wet jug on the sink or putting it in the dishwasher and it didnt quite dry out, just give it a scrub and it will be fine.
    The best cutlery in the world will rust if allowed to, you see to hold a good edge a knife needs carbon, its this carbon that allows the stainless to rust.
    Also the steel in your jug is most likely made by spinning it, in a metal former. One of the easier steels to use for this has higher levels of carbon.These steels are called Martensitic Stainless Steels. Or *AISI 400 series Stainless Steels. They are not always cheaper than 316 or similair steels just different.

    Thats my 2 cents worth anyway?

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Quote Originally Posted by YeeZa link=1219369404/0#8 date=1219385497
    And for the record, its not that brilliant ;) I know plenty of other things Id like to be doing.... ::)
    Already off-topic now, I know, but straying even further, this sounds like it might be leading into one of those "I coulda.." jokes like "I coulda been a historian but there was no future in it" or "I coulda been a lighting tech but I wasnt that brilliant" or .....*SLAP...ouch, OK Ill stop now :-X

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    You are really switched on ;D ;D

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    I could be worse than a jug. My first machine (breville cafe roma) started rusting inside the portafilter within the first week. I sent a photo to breville asking WTF. They responded by sending a new portafilter the following week. Now I have two rusting portafilters - great work breville!

    The comment about leaving SS in contact with other items (particularly wet items) is definately valid (and not just for rusting). I left a wet 1.2m glass theiving tube on my brand new SS 304 laboratory bench at work for a couple of days. I now have a permanent opaque mark across the bench!

    Time for a new jug nonetheless Remy.

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stan link=1219369404/0#11 date=1219395169
    You are really switched on *;D ;D
    Ok fellas, at the risk of going further OT, I was an electrician prior. Ive heard every pun going around ;)

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Hi JPRM 304 stainless steel is pretty resistant to corrosion but it is commonly used for bench tops fish and chip shops mandrel bending you name it. Its quite a good quality stainless for food grade purpose, much cheaper than 316.

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Quote Originally Posted by gronk62 link=1219369404/0#1 date=1219370372
    Ive been usin the same 600ml sunbeam jug for nearly 3 years and so far no rust. In fact it still looks new-ish.
    Maybe they had a batch made from a lesser grade stainless.
    Gronk..youre scarin me with that avatar man!! I felt guilty about something for a split second when I first saw it :o ;D

    Ahh,..well that would explain it,.. I got mine this year so yeah.. increased price + decreased quality = bigger profits. Its to be expected I suppose. :(



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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    I wanted to be an Electrician but dad told me to learn a trade first. <G>.
    IIRC Martensitic SS is Magnetic, Austensitic is not.
    Pickling paste, a Solution of Nitric and Hydrofluoric Acid could be used but its not very user friendly nor is the alternative a 40% solution of Caustic Soda which is what I use for SS 304 and 316 @ 80 degrees C.


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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnaus link=1219369404/0#2 date=1219370489
    Stainless steel is prone to rust - its much less rust-prone than ordinary steel and there are different grades of stainless steel.

    Stainless steel contains iron + carbon + chromium and sometimes other elements such as nickel or manganese or molybdenum
    Aaar just as I suspected,.. erm..well ok maybe I suspected just one of those elements. I knew that there were different grades/qualities of SS..but dahhhh...I didnt realise that the cwappy quality SS actually rusted.
    :-[

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Its more to do with the galvanic corrosion/ tea staining mentioned by Sammus and YeeZa. You could get a more expensive jug but as already advised, clean it up with a nylon scouring pad then from now on wash and rinse your jug well and let it drain on a tea towel or somewhere not in direct contact with your sink.

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Quote Originally Posted by beanflying link=1219369404/0#3 date=1219371761
    Stainless Steel has around a dozen recognised "standards" then there is "Stainless Steel" as made in Asia ;) To save money remove some of the Nickel and Chromium and you get psuedo stainless steel *::) BTW My new jug kept getting a slight rust stain from the cut edge for a couple of weeks until the milk sealed it over * :P
    No rust on the cut edge on mine,.. just this weird band of it on the inside near the top. Hmm...sealing it over with milk hey? eeeuuuuw!!,I had a laugh.

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Quote Originally Posted by YeeZa link=1219369404/0#4 date=1219380701
    Most milk jugs out there that are SS are 18/10 grade (you can see it on the underside of your jug next to the "Made in China"). Which isnt that bad, its just not like the other common 316 marine grade which is the goods. Also, smooth SS (as in polished) will be less prone to corrosion. This is all from light fittings that I sell (Im a lighting consultant). The common form of corrosion is what is known as tea staining where the SS turns a bit browny.

    So in short, theres stainless steel; and then theres stainless steel.

    (Oh and incase you didnt see in the other thread, "Welcome back Remy" missed having you around. Thought you had fallen off the roof mucking around with tv ariels again.)

    YeeZa

    (Just read the other thread Remy, oops;))
    Thanks Yeeza,...Id be AWOL more likely because of severe burns to my head from falling asleep at the torch. Im trying to get my bead and jewelry stock up too and Im so tired most nights by the time I get a chance to make beads. Not a good thing to be when working with gasses, a very hot flame and molten glass that explodes on the mandrel if you are not careful...yes this happened last week..chunks of hot glass flew in all directions,I had a laugh. Watching the glow of molten glass spinnning on the mandrel and feeling the warmth from the flame sometimes makes my eyes very heavy and my head start nodding :o ;D.

    Oooh oh a lighting consultant you say? You might regret you said that ;) I have a question,... Can you recommend a particular light for taking photographs? I have a problem,.. I have a lightbox setup with three lamps containing those philips gene long life cool globes plus two bright wall lights (globes look almost like regular shape but a little smaller and flattened out at the top of the globe) to photograph my jewelry and lampwork beads. I was trying to get close to daylight light if I could, but the other day I discovered the reds in the beads were photographing a yucky brown,.. and under the kitchen halogens they looked bright red IRL. So.. is there any globe that I can go for that will not mess with my colours and allow me to photograph as true colour as possible?

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammus link=1219369404/0#5 date=1219382970
    Lots of different grades of stainless. Hit it with a green scrubby to remove the rust, and remember to keep it dry between sessions. It would also be a good idea to not store it on top of your machine. SS will only start to rust like that if you leave it wet, or *if its in contact with a metal of a different sort (called galvanic corrosion, leaving wet utensils in your kitchen sink works a good demonstration here :P)
    Ok.. out with the green scrubby,..and gees I have to dry it too whaaaaaaaaaah.

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnaus link=1219369404/0#6 date=1219384153
    A bit of overkill but I *I was watching New Inventors last week. Someone came up with an invention that will repair welded or cut stainless steel. Apparently some sort of acid is used to clean and repair stainless steel.

    If you are interested, check the spiel on How it works at http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s2324925.htm

    Anyway, its *FYI only. Buying a new jug would be much cheaper/easier, and recommended
    I have another bigger jug, an awesome Motta from Denis, which I use every morning for doing the milk for three hot chocs and my coffee, but the smaller one I use less often and probably why it has rusted up >:( ,..using only if I make a single coffee for me in the evenings. Thanks for the link..very interesting.

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Quote Originally Posted by martybean link=1219369404/0#9 date=1219387288
    Remy there are literally thousands of Stainless steels out there.The rust is most likely caused by leaving the wet jug on the sink or putting it in the dishwasher and it didnt quite dry out, just give it a scrub and it will be fine.
    The best cutlery in the world will rust if allowed to, you see to hold a good edge a knife needs carbon, its this carbon that allows the stainless to rust.
    Also the steel in your jug is most likely made by spinning it, in a metal former. One of the easier steels to use for this has higher levels of carbon.These steels are called Martensitic Stainless Steels. Or *AISI 400 series Stainless Steels. They are not always cheaper than 316 or similair steels just different.

    Thats my 2 cents worth anyway?
    Yes.. probably the dishwasher... I just chuck em in there when I am done,.. and they sit in there unwashed until the dishwasher is full at night,.. then all night,.pulling out clean to use in morning.... probably contributes to the rust I guess. Gees... I am too time poor and tired to hand wash dishes...I might need to turf it out along with the woollen jumpers that dont fair well in a washing machine... ::) ;D My motto is; if it cannot be washed by a machine,..it doesnt belong in my house. 8-)

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stan link=1219369404/0#11 date=1219395169
    You are really switched on *;D ;D
    He might be turned on. ::) ;D

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Quote Originally Posted by jprm link=1219369404/0#12 date=1219396779
    I could be worse than a jug. My first machine (breville cafe roma) started rusting inside the portafilter within the first week. I sent a photo to breville asking WTF. They responded by sending a new portafilter the following week. Now I have two rusting portafilters - great work breville!

    The comment about leaving SS in contact with other items (particularly wet items) is definately valid (and not just for rusting). I left a wet 1.2m glass theiving tube on my brand new SS 304 laboratory bench at work for a couple of days. I now have a permanent opaque mark across the bench!

    Time for a new jug nonetheless Remy.
    Yeah... I might contact Sunbeam and see if they will send me a replacement jug,..it would be handy to have an extra rusty jug..whaahahaha.

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Quote Originally Posted by martybean link=1219369404/0#14 date=1219403382
    Hi JPRM 304 stainless steel is pretty resistant to corrosion but it is commonly used for bench tops fish and chip shops mandrel bending you name it. Its quite a good quality stainless for food grade purpose, much cheaper than 316.
    While on the subject of SS for bench tops.... anyone know where I can pick up a piece of SS sheet without having to sell my husband for it? I need a piece for my workbench to sit my torch on...but big enough to also allow work space for rods of glass with molten ends to lay/drop and other molten mishaps to fall so that I can avoid burning the house down. I currently have floor tiles on my workbench but the tiles are not grouted between and glass shards and molten-ended stringers(thin pulled strands of glass) fall between the tiles and down on the timber surface of the bench. Not good.

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Quote Originally Posted by Remy link=1219369404/20#20 date=1219448389
    Oooh oh a lighting consultant you say? *You might regret you said that *;) *I have a question,... Can you recommend a particular light for taking photographs? *I have a problem,.. I have a lightbox setup with three lamps containing those philips gene long life cool globes plus two bright wall lights (globes look almost like regular shape but a little smaller and flattened out at the top of the globe) to photograph my jewelry and lampwork beads. I was trying to get close to daylight light if I could, but the other day I discovered the reds in the beads were photographing a yucky brown,.. and under the kitchen halogens they looked bright red IRL. *So.. is there any globe that I can go for that will not mess with my colours and allow me to photograph as true colour as possible?
    Theres a globe that we use sometimes called a craftlight. It looks like a normal globe but has a slight blue tinge to it. Youd wanna hurry up and get these though as they wont be available much longer after they phase out incandescent lamps. Crompton have them, amongst other brands, the model number of the one in front of me is CRA100WBC Thats a 100W bayonet cap. The Product code is 10968.
    Im surprised you dont havea stash of these already, theyre the goods for colour rendition. Heaps of artists and the like use them when painting etc.

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    There is a great SS 304 bench importer in Australia who supply alot of benches to hospitality and industrial businesses. I dont know about plain sheets, but there prices are incredibly low for what you get. Im not sure if Im allowed to plug the website here so anyone interested send a personal message.

    Im about to get a 45cm deep splashback bench for my home barista set up... time to get it all out of the kitchen so I have more cooking space!

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Quote Originally Posted by YeeZa link=1219369404/20#27 date=1219455492

    Theres a globe that we use sometimes called a craftlight. It looks like a normal globe but has a slight blue tinge to it. Youd wanna hurry up and get these though as they wont be available much longer after they phase out incandescent lamps. Crompton have them, amongst other brands, the model number of the one in front of me is CRA100WBC Thats a 100W bayonet cap. The Product code is 10968.
    Im surprised you dont havea stash of these already, theyre the goods for colour rendition. Heaps of artists and the like use them when painting etc.
    Thanks Yeeza... those darn artists were keeping those globes a trade secret,.. no wonder my stuff is cwappy,. it had nothing to do with poor workmanship afterall eh hemm.

    Thanks for the headsup,... I will definitely look for and hoard a little stash of these.

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Thanks jprm,.. just sent you a PM.

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Quote Originally Posted by Remy link=1219369404/20#22 date=1219449707
    I have another bigger jug, an awesome Motta from Denis, which I use every morning for doing the milk for three hot chocs and my coffee, but the smaller one I use less often and probably why it has rusted up >:
    I think its more to do with the quality of the stainless Remy. ;)

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Remy, try you local Metal Recyclers as they only pay about .90 cents a Kilo for Stainless and would probably gladly keep a Bit of sheet for you and resell it at a Profit. The going rate for New decent thickness sheet new ranges from about $150 a Sq Metre up.I have some here but the freight from MNC NSW to the ACT would probably be prohibitive.

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1219369404/20#31 date=1219475547
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy link=1219369404/20#22 date=1219449707
    I have another bigger jug, an awesome Motta from Denis, *which I use every morning for doing the milk for three hot chocs and my coffee, but the smaller one I use less often and probably why it has rusted up *>:
    I think its more to do with the quality of the stainless Remy. *;)
    This is true,.. I would never expect the same to happen to my beautiful, much loved and special Motta jug. :-* :-* :-* :-*

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Quote Originally Posted by TEPIN link=1219369404/20#32 date=1219480501
    Remy, try you local Metal Recyclers as they only pay about .90 cents a Kilo for Stainless and would probably gladly keep a Bit of sheet for you and resell it at a Profit. The going rate for New decent thickness sheet new ranges from about $150 a Sq Metre up.I have some here but the freight from MNC NSW to the ACT would probably be prohibitive.
    Thanks Tepin,.. I will do another hunt for a local metal recycler. I found a guy about two years ago, who said he had a suitable sized piece and he quoted a fair price,... but ....he said he lived in the same suburb and would even deliver it one evening on his way home from work,.. weeks past,..months past and after many phone calls to remind him,...no show and I gave up...grrrrrrr.

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Remy - As mentioned you have been away a while but my god you have made up for it ;D ;D ;D

    Welcome back. I also leave the milk jugs in the dish washer. I havent had any trouble with the Sunbeam jug yet but it is early days but I also have 4 other jugs of various sizes and manufacturers that get rotated through.

    I seem to be collecting more and more shiny things. :-/

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    While on the subject of SS for bench tops.... anyone know where I can pick up a piece of SS sheet without having to sell my husband for it? I need a piece for my workbench to sit my torch on...but big enough to also allow work space for rods of glass with molten ends to lay/drop and other molten mishaps to fall so that I can avoid burning the house down. I currently have floor tiles on my workbench but the tiles are not grouted between and glass shards and molten-ended stringers(thin pulled strands of glass) fall between the tiles and down on the timber surface of the bench. Not good.
    Remy you could try a local Sheetmetal Fabricator. I picked up a small piece for my wifes chocolate making for free, as we only have S/S lagging Material at work which is 0.8mm.
    But dont just ring around, front up in person. Some of these palces throw out more than enough steel for what you need.

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stan link=1219369404/20#35 date=1219483083
    Remy - As mentioned you have been away a while but my god you have made up for it *;D ;D ;D

    Welcome back. *I also leave the milk jugs in the dish washer. *I havent had any trouble with the Sunbeam jug yet but it is early days but I also have 4 other jugs of various sizes and manufacturers *that get rotated through. *

    I seem to be collecting more and more shiny things. *:-/
    Oi know,.. cant shut me up now... the flood gates are open. ;D

    I have one more shiny thing I need to collect then Ill be happy.

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Quote Originally Posted by martybean link=1219369404/20#36 date=1219484261
    * *While on the subject of SS for bench tops.... anyone know where I can pick up a piece of SS sheet without having to sell my husband for it? *I need a piece for my workbench to sit my torch on...but big enough to also allow work space for rods of glass with molten ends to lay/drop and other molten mishaps to fall so that I can avoid burning the house down. *I currently have floor tiles on my workbench but the tiles are not grouted between and glass shards and molten-ended stringers(thin pulled strands of glass) fall between the tiles and down on the timber surface of the bench. Not good.
    Remy you could try a local Sheetmetal Fabricator. I picked up a small piece for my wifes chocolate making for free, as we only have S/S lagging Material at work which is 0.8mm.
    But dont just ring around, front up in person. Some of these palces throw out more than enough steel for what you need.
    Yeah.. it might just pay me to circle a few places in the phonebook and get in the car and go around to them one afternoon. Hmmm...you got me thinking now.

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Quote Originally Posted by Remy link=1219369404/20#38 date=1219489840
    Yeah.. it might just pay me to circle a few places in the phonebook and get in the car and go around to them one afternoon. Hmmm...you got me thinking now.
    Ut oh! *Isnt this the way the quest for a windscreen motor began? *;D

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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Yeah... sometimes I dunno if its a good thing or a bad thing when I start thinking ::) ;)

  42. #42
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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Just caught up with this thread. There are four or five types of stainless steel available. The type depends on a number of factors of which the most important is what materials get added to the mix. The most commonly encountered is austenitic stainless which most of us encounter in food preparation machines and equipment as 304 or one of its sub grades. From memory this is the most widely produced and is a chromium and nickel mix, although I cant recall the percentages.

    If you need, I can dig around and find some relevant references.

    Regards

    S

  43. #43
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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Seems most Jugs are 18/10 rather than a 300 standard S/Steel. 18/10 has a much higher Carbon content than the 300 series (from what I remember) which would explain some of the commparitive corrosion issues.

    Like the old Castrol add Stainless aint Stainless :)

  44. #44
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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Beanflying the 18/10 refers to the amount of nickel and chromium in S/S. 18%Nickel and 10% Chromium. This is and old classification and steels are now reconised by a number eg. 18/8 S/S is now 302. So 304 and 316 would have been 18/10 S/S but the low carbon versions of these steels have an L after the number.

  45. #45
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    Re: Oh the.. ol rusty jug trick ey?

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Hi,

    I was aware of that nut generally 18/10 is a cheap stainless (and normally high carbon) used in utensils and is low grade compared to most 300 specs. Also chinese Stainless I have found over the years is a lot different to what is claimed sometimes ::)

    Anyone want to make me an electropolished jug from 316L for $10 I will buy it :)



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