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Thread: La Marzocco basket

  1. #1
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    La Marzocco basket

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi ,

    I recently bought the La Marzocco double basket that is talked about so much . Ive only run a couple of shots thru it but there has been a noted improvement in the quality of the shots.
    So if anyone else is thinking of an easy way to improve the quality of their expresso, $12 on coffeeparts its a no brainer

    Paul

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    Re: 18 gram / deep / commercial coffee filter

    Just a small detail gentlemen (and ladies).

    You are all doing great marketing job for the La Marzocco espresso machine manufacturing company, and the Australian importers of said brand, and building brand awareness for them by continually mentioning the name.....in a situation I think, of misunderstanding.

    Mostly, these coffee filters, as mentioned frequently enough in topics in this and other forums, and described as being "LM" filters.....are generic large coffee filters as supplied on most commonly available commercial coffee machines in this market.

    They are simply a common, pressed stainless steel, "deep" or "large", "18 gram" generic commercial coffee filter, and are interchangeable through many brand and model machines.


    Please, no offence intended, just a pertinent detail correction and yes, 18 gram filters are the best for the style of coffee we generally roast, blend and brew over here.

    Regardz,
    FC.

  3. #3
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: 18 gram / deep / commercial coffee filter

    Quote Originally Posted by Fresh_Coffee link=1127823696/0#1 date=1127861605
    They are simply a common, pressed stainless steel, "deep" or "large", "18 gram" generic commercial coffee filter, and are interchangeable through many brand and model machines.

    Please, no offence intended, just a pertinent detail correction and yes, 18 gram filters are the best for the style of coffee we generally roast, blend and brew over here.

    Regardz,
    FC.
    Thanks for the clarification, FC, thats very handy to know as I was on the verge or ordering one.

    But do I really need it to replace the stock standard Silvia double basket, as according to my electronic scale its been taking 18 grams anyway?

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    Re: La Marzocco basket

    I too bought the unmentionable basket, and I must say that it greatly improved my espresso - and heres why.

    The stock basket that came with my expobar will take, at most, about 16g if you really pack it in. This surprised me when I first got the machine, as I was dosing the same as with my sunbeam (and its krups basket), but Icould not insert the pf into the group head. The level of coffee in the basket was too high to allow me to lock it in.

    When my (unmentionable brand name) basket arrived, I found a few things:
    1. The [s]LM[/s] (I didnt say that!) basket can fit up to 20g of coffee, and allows me to lock the pf into the group head - it gives me more head room between the shower screen and the top of the puck, because its deeper.
    2. The bottom of the basket is not rounded - the basket walls dont turn into a bowl at the bottom, theyre straight down, resulting in a more uniform puck. Id like to think that this contributes to a more even extraction through the puck, but I dont know enough to confidently state that.
    3. the bottom of the ridge stops a 58mm tamp from going any further - this helps me, because if I havent put enough coffee into the basket, it wont tamp properly. It forces me to use more coffee - which I like.

    Just to show the difference, heres a pic. The expobar stock basket is on the right. I wont say anything more about the one on the left.


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    Re: La Marzocco basket

    Robusto,

    re: "... But do I really need it to replace the stock standard Silvia double basket, as according to my electronic scale its been taking 18 grams anyway?.."

    If the coffee filters on your Silvia are stamped with the word RANCILIO around the bottom outside edge, then they are most probably the standard filters as supplied. You will benefit by replacing with deep commercial filters.

    A quick test to confirm which filters you have is to measure the depth. A standard Silvia filter is about 20mm deep, and the deeper standard commercial filters used over here are about 24 mm deep...and this makes all the difference.

    If your filters are already around 24 mm deep then it appears the deep ones have already been optioned.

    Regardz,
    FC.

  6. #6
    tim
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    Re: La Marzocco basket

    Mattyj,
    The LaCimbali standard double looks a bit like the standard double for your Expobar.
    If I want to go for the "LM style" I have to get another LaCimbali Group Handle that has been cut off to crotchless for it to fit!! (which I will eventually do, but the whole rigs gonna cost me 90 bucks)......C.F.O scrutinising closely after a big year of coffee hardware buying 8-)

    Fresh: I wouldnt worry too much....I dont think too many people here are gonna run out and stump up 6 Grand for a 1-group Linea, good as they may be ;)

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    Re: La Marzocco basket

    Tim - thats interesting. The [s]LM[/s] (remember: I didnt advertise that brand!!!) basket fits into my expobar pf very nicely - like a glove. It almost bottoms out, almost.

    Thats why Im keen (and mentioned in another thread, but alas, I got shot down) to get my hands on a [s]LM lion[/s] pf - not only the ergonomically friendly 15o handle, but they also have a deeper chamber for the bakset (and a cutesy lion embossed near the handle), and will fit my expobar ... 99.99% sure of it, since we tried one out at Forsyths when I picked up my machine.

    Other e61 users have mentioned that they use [s]LM lion[/s] pfs, but they had to file down the lugs a little bit to be able to insert it to 6 oclock for a really tight seal. Other than a bit of filing, they seem really happy with them!

    Hows that for advertising!

  8. #8
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: La Marzocco basket

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim link=1127823696/0#5 date=1127868207
    Mattyj,
    The LaCimbali standard double looks a bit like the standard double for your Expobar.
    Hey Tim,

    Are you sure you have a double for your Cimbali and not a single? I have both a single-shot and a double-shot basket here for my Cimbali and the single looks very similiar to the above pic of the expobars double. While the Cimbali double I have looks the same as the LM/generic 18g double shown, and into which I regularly pack 20gs.

    An easy way to tell the difference (assumming theyre actual Cimbali Baskets - Theyll be stamped with Cimbali if they are) is in the area covered by the holes in the bottom of the basket. In the double the holes go to just shy of the vertical walls. While in the single theyre only about 2/3rds of the diameter of the basket.

    So if your holes only cover about 60% of the diameter of the basket youve got a single and you should order in one of those doubles *immediately! Pulling shots with the single basket sucks! Especially if youre pulling doubles with it! ;D

    The doubles are much more forgiving than the singles as well.

    Java "Loves a Double" phile

  9. #9
    tim
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    Re: La Marzocco basket

    Java,
    Yep, mine is definitely the double...the single is more tapered (perhaps actually a bit more like Matts photo of the Expobar filter on 2nd viewing). The LaCim filters in my machine however dont have a 90 degree bottom like the LM-style one in MattyJs picture, they are more rounded.
    I got 2 handles with the machine; a single spout and a double spout, the single had a single filter in it which I persevered with for a week and stopped using because it was a pain in the @rse.
    I only use the double now (which seems to take about 18Gms) and bought a 2nd double so both handles have a double installed. I drink double shots from the single spout handle and faint-hearted visitors (except Andy, who Im sure would drink quads if you could get em) drink split singles from the double spout handle.
    I want a triple though (21GMS) and this will necessitate getting a bottomless handle cause you cant fit a triple in a LaCim handle. (sits about 2 mm too high).

  10. #10
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: La Marzocco basket

    :) Sounds good Tim, just wanted to make sure you had a double and not a single. :D

    The double basket definately doesnt have a squared off corner on the bottom but rather a nice radiusd one.

    Ive debated making one of my portafilters bottomless as I have 3 and one day will probably do so, but not today. :) When I do so Ill *definately have to pick up a triple basket to use with it! Im most definately a member of the Andy "Give me a Quad!" club! [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

    Java "What? You dont have a bigger cup than *that?!" phile

  11. #11
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: La Marzocco basket

    Thanks again, Fresh Cofee,
    My (La) Silvia double basket has the Rancilio stamp, is 20 mls deep, but still holds 18 grams of coffee. Thats why, as I mentioned in an earlier thread I wondered where all the coffee was disappearing to). If I stuck to the recommended 14 grams I get a milky-white extraction thin as water and just as appealing.

    Regards
    Robusto

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    Re: La Marzocco basket

    Hi FC,

    Thanks for the info , but is the difference only in being deeper or does it also have a different disspersion pattern , because when I tested the empty basket it restricted the flow more than the standard silvia basket . Over 10seconds with the standard basket I get about 100ml with the unmentionable basket I get only 85ml .
    Anyway it makes good coffee.

    Paul

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    Re: La Marzocco basket

    heres an interesting article I read before all this came up, from Mark Princes website, coffeekid.com ... http://www.coffeekid.com/cafetalk/05-16-2003.

    I dont intend this to ruffle any feathers, I just found it an interesting read.

    Peace!

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    Re: La Marzocco basket

    Paul,

    an interesting observation...I dont know the answer...but I dont know whether what youve observed is anything to be concerned about in real terms because when you have the filter packed with correct ground and tamped coffee....it may be that the main restriction to the flow / delivery is the puk itself, rather than any restriction from the filter itself.

    Thinking out aloud...

    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: La Marzocco basket

    I replaced my Giotto basket with a "LM style" ridgeless basket and found it slightly deeper (good) and slightly wider (bad) than my 58mm tamper that fit the Giotto basket like a glove. I was under the impression that the standard Giotto/Silvia basket is 14gm while the ridgeless is 16gm and the slight increase in size seems to support this.

    Cheers

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    Re: La Marzocco basket

    W,

    the standard Silvia filter is smaller than that which *should* have come standard on your Giotto (which *should* have been the standard "deep" / "18 gram" commercial filter...any deeper and it would hit bottom).

    It is also interesting to note that the filters supplied with the Silvia (and stamped by the manufacturer) are actually a tad different in size to the almost identical looking generics....

    And this is why anyone that has a rocky DOSER grinder and actually wants to use it to "dose" their portions must stick with original fitment stamped filters. Inadvertent replacement of the supplied filter with the almost but not quite identical looking generic filters supplied through spare parts stockists that dont stock the "genuine" original, will suddenly result in...the doser appearing not to dose correctly....and it cant be adjusted and therefore cannot account for the slight difference in the size of the filters! Not to mention swapping the original fitment filters for the deeper ones. Smart marketing by the manufacturerer?

    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: La Marzocco basket

    I went down the LM basket path but found it didnt fit my Silvia portafilter (slightly too deep), but no matter I tried it in a bottomless portafilter and the result was easily the richest and best brew I have been able to achieve so far. :P

  18. #18
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: La Marzocco basket

    Thats very interesting, Malduin, as Ive lost count of the number of posts world-wide where the Silvia basket has been replaced with the LM one --- and no mention of the replacement not fitting. Can you post the model number of the oversized LM basket for reference purposes please?

    Regards,
    Robusto

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    Re: La Marzocco basket

    This discussion reminds me (just a little bit) of a certain episode of Blackadder, where Lord Blackadder hired the services of a captain Red-beard Rum, the legless captain of a ship with no crew. When Blackadder asked captain Rum if it was necessary to have a crew on the ship, captain Rum answered; "Opinion is divided on this issue. All the other captains say you do. I say you dont."


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    Re: La Marzocco basket

    Robusto,

    I wonder if I have the right basket - as you can see by the comparison with my Silvia double basket the LM is considerably deeper, there is no way it could fit in my standard portafilter and it just manages to fit in the bottomless portafilter. Also after checking carefully there is no brand, number or identifying mark anywhere on the basket.

    cheers,

    Malduin


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    Re: La Marzocco basket

    the angle of the photo makes it a bit hard to tell, but it could be a La Marzocco swift triple basket - they are made for use with the LM swift grinders.

    If you check my photo on the previous page, the LM double is only ever-so-slightly taller than the expobar basket, but fatter at the base ... plus Ive never seen a rancilio basket before, so its hard to tell...

  22. #22
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    Re: La Marzocco basket

    No mistaking the Rancilio basket (on th eleft), but not having seen the unmentionable brand name one, I wouldnt know--sorry. It does, though, seem very much deeper than the Silvia one, and not surprised the portafilter cant accommodate it.

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    Re: La Marzocco basket

    To me, it looks like a swift triple basket ... it looks almost too deep to be a double.

    Theres a pic of a LM basket from Allpress Espresso (who import LMs) on page 1 of this thread.

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    Re: La Marzocco basket

    I think you may be right and Ive been sent the wrong basket - it measures 28mm deep - one consolation, it makes a great heart-starter in the morning.

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    Re: La Marzocco basket

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Hi Malduin,

    Yeh, that definitely looks like the triple basket , it would be interesting to try with one of those naked pfs.

    Paul



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