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Thread: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

  1. #1
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    New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Saw this in the paper on the weekend. Been on sale in italy for a while,

    its plumbed in, also pour over. 2 LITRE.

    HOT WATER AND SEPERATE STEAM BOILER FOR PERFECT SETTINGS SIO IT SAYS.

    built in grinder and the add said it was rolls royce.

    all stainless etc.

    no details on internals but said it had twin boilers, so im guessing its not too bad.

    but as you see no guages re pressure or anything.

    does anyone know anything about this machine. ???

    Its $3900 australian retail so you would think its pretty flash.

    I googled it and couldnt find much.

    SMEG SCM1


    My friend has always wanted a built in machine but as they were not plumbed he has resisted, he is tempted but i said you need more details. Waiting for SMEG to return the call. Not a good start.

    I must say I like the look of it. Maybe the pressure etc is digital via the display. not sure ??


    it has automated wash program to remove scale build up. Is that a FIRST ??

    any feedback appreciated.

    cheers all


  2. #2
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    Dont know anything about the machine, but it mustve been hiding behind the door when good looks were being handed out.

    Sorry, but it looks like a cross between a money safe and a commercial drink dispenser. That plain-jane area on the right is hideous.

    Come to think of it, this SMEG should qualify as the ugliest of all coffee machines.

    The name, too.... the fabricated expletive from the British TV comedy, Red Dwarf.




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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    Just some random thoughts designed to be helpful:

    ".........My friend has always wanted a built in machine but as they were not plumbed he has resisted, he is tempted but i said you need more details...."

    a)

    Plumbing inside a kitchen cupboard is an accident waiting to happen, We always try and talk domestic retail clients out of buying appliances that are plumbed in especially when they are biult in.

    You only need one problem to occur with the connection sometime in the future and you will be replacing your kitchen.

    In additon, most consumers do not realise that you should TURN OFF the water to your appliance after each and every use and only turn it on again at the next use, otherwise you are asking for trouble as above. Trouble is, the stopcock in a situation like that is usually placed in a hard to get place, or has a lot of kitchen stuff placed in front of and on top of and around it, so it is not convenient for the home owner to get down and turn off & on regularly.

    I know of one insurance claim where an inlet pipe to an espresso machine burst overnight...ran all night...and the final insurance claim / payout was for $18,000.00. Yes, 18 THOUSAND dollars.

    In addition there are other technical reasons. Some machines, particularly machines really intended for domestic use with a tank, that are offered with conversion for plumbing, have problems with pressure relief from the pressurised water connection..resulting in copious quantities of waer fklow into undrained drip trays....

    A machine that really is intended to be connected to the water mains SHOULD also be fitted with a proper drain, either from the (invariably tiny) drip tray, or directly out the back of the machine to a suitable connection. If there is no proper drain away from the machine and your kitchen cupboards, forget it.

    Unfortunately, I sincerely doubt that any normal retailer would know about this if asked.

    Please be happy to buy an inbuilt machine with a water tank in the back and forget any idea no matter how well intentioned, of wanting the water connection holy grail.

    b)

    Dont ever buy nuttin that doesnt have a proven track record or - easy - local - access to service backup.


    The easiest way to have an "inbuilt" espresso machine is to buy the machine of your choice, and have the cabinet maker build an "appliance cupboard" around it... You can even fit a plinth upon which the free standing machine can roll out of the appliance cupboard to be used, then rolled back in and away after use.

    There is always more than one way to skin the cat!

    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    FC:

    On that basis we should all rip out our inline filtration systems and dishwashers too.

    A lot of people have dishwashers and the like.

    I certainly dont see a problem with plumbed in systems and they are nice to have. :)

    Small commercial plumbed in espresso machines are IMHO the way to go and are very popular with CS members.

    Remember whether it is a water filtration system, a dishwasher or an espresso machine there is always a potential for something to go wrong but if it is installed correctly I think that the chance for problems are small.

    I think that Smeg is a totally impractical design though. It is one of those machines for a designer kitchen for people who have lots of money and sell the house every five years and get a new one so machine reliability is never a problem.

    If I was choosing a machine for a home, get a nice Reneka Techno dual boiler machine. It is plumbed in too, which is nice to have. Get a nice Rocky doserless to go with it or a Mazzer. Perfect and a much more practical setup regards servicing, access and repair. It probably makes bettter coffee as well.

    Grant

    Grant


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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    I dont see what water filtration has to do with it.

    However some good quality dishwashers have auto shut off valves fitted in the inlet water line just short of where the line is screwed on to the water pressure limiting valve, and the stop cock, so that if a burst pipe does occur, the flow is stopped. Theses auto shut off valves are provided by the manufacturer with the appliance at purchase.

    Many don’t.

    So if the water inlet bursts and you are asleep or have gone out, in most cases, you will call “HELP” after the fact.

    Most clothes washing machines that I know of, don’t have an auto shut off valve fitted in the water inlet.

    No espresso machine that I know of, has an auto shut off valve fitted.

    The client could advise his plumber to fit one if he knew to do this, however as most retail vendors don’t have a clue about any of this, they cant advise the client who in turn could have advised his plumber to fit an auto shut off valve….

    In the last 20 years even I (who knows about these things) have had 3 such water failures that have gone unchecked for a considerable period (say, all night) and caused a of damage. Once on my washing machine at home, once on an ice cream machine at work, and once on an espresso machine at work. IN each case someone had forgotten to turn the water off after use, or had negligently ignored advice to do so. There have been quite a few other occasions that happened at work but ofcourse in that situation the problem was discovered immediately.

    This is all the same advice as given to all our commercial esp machine clients only in their case it just happens to be *more convenient* for them...because they only need to worry about turning the water on to the machine in the morning, and off when they leave at the close of business. Whereas householders should never leave the water on to the machine when they are asleep or not there, ie where an undiscovered burst water line could run for hours.

    The situation inside kitchen cupboards, with flexible and in some cases non professional quality water lines fitted, in sitiuations where there is no proper drain, has already been explained.

    This relevanrt professional information is freely given with good intention.

    Regardz,
    FC. *

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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    Water mains pressure is a big contributing factor to the risk of failure of the inlet connection. With devices like washing machines and dishwasher, its often all or nothing where water is concerned, on or off. If mains pressure is high in your locality, the risk of failure is higher, with these sorts of appliances. A simple solution would be either an auto shutoff valve, as FC described, or a device that reduces in-line mains pressure.

    I dont think Ive seen any first hand, but they should exist.

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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    All espresso machine installations that are connected to mains water, should be fitted with a water pressure reduction valve, usually to 350 kPa.

    All washing machine and dishwasher installations, should be fitted with .........ditto"! The fact that many arent, just means the installation was not completed professionally.

    But pressure reduction is not flow reduction...., so you still get a nice lot of damage happening from a reduced pressure connection that bursts with tap fully open (as they usually are).

    Nunu, your esp machine will probably have a funny looking brass fitting fitted to the stopcock, and before the water filter....thats the pressure reduction valve, and it may be shaped a bit like a "T". *

    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    nunu:

    All the in line water filtration systems, like the one I have for instance, have a pressure limiting valve for added safety. This is fitted standard. The system has a tap on the sink for filtered drinking water and these systems are very common and often put in more upmarket new houses as standard equipment these days.

    NO, they dont recommend that you turn the water off overnight!

    The filtered water supply also supplies the espresso machine.

    I wouldnt recommend people turn off the water supply overnight as it is likely to put the espresso machine pump at risk and these are worth about $600 I think for a Procon pump.

    It is just a matter of relative risk. I think that the risk of a major leak is small whereas the risk of damage to your pump might be quite large.

    These systems are reliable too when installed correctly.

    Grant

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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    No part of an espresso coffee machine can be damaged or placed at risk by having the water and power supply turned off to it.

    Risk or damage is however caused by operators that dont understand the equipment and dont manage it properly whilst it is turned / switched on, or when the water is turned off but the machine is electrically left switched on...These operators are all called Miss Management.

    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    Luckily, my machine is currently not plumbed in, so I need not worry about any pressure issues, unless I overfill the reservoir ofc. ::) However, Our dishwasher is free standing, with castors, so I can move it around the kitchen. I can turn it off and on as I wish simply by plugging it in. The water comes from the tap via tap adaptor, so to control the flow rate/pressure, I can simply turn the tap down.

    With the built-in sort of appliances, you have very limited access if anything decides to break. While it may look sharp, and flush with the rest of the cabinetry, it has access as a major limitation, and repair costs are often more expensive, due to the accessability, and hence increased labour.

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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    FC:

    No part of an espresso coffee machine can be damaged or placed at risk by having the water and power supply turned off to it.
    I agree with you on that point.

    ;D

    The point is people being people they will forget to turn the water back on in the morning then I would imagine that isnt good for the pump.

    Anyway, it is an opinion on perceived risk and as such there is no right or wrong answer.

    I certainly wouldnt turn the water off to my filtration system or machine. It isnt worth the trouble (to me) for the small risk involved and possibly bigger risk of running the pump while dry.

    Grant

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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    FC brings up an excellent point about the potential for a water leak.

    In this picture look at the walls on either side of the fridge and below the window in the background. There youll see the exposed lathing from where the plaster had been destroyed and had to be stripped off. The area where the plaster had to be removed extends well beyond the range of this photo.



    In this one look at the floor and youll see where all the linolium came off/was stripped off.



    It cost $4,000US just to dry the place out. Replacing the walls, the entire kitchen floor (right down to the joists), multiple cabinets and various small appliances and food stocks will run another $7,000-$8,000US. Add in on top of that another couple of thousand dollars for items destroyed in the basement below the kitchen.

    $14,000US in damages, all caused by the failure of a 50 cent, 15cm long piece of poly tubing behind the fridge run between the house piping and a filter which broke in the middle of the night and wasnt discovered for multiple hours.

    Instead of using my usual braided stainless steel hoses I had used a plastic poly tubing. I knew that this tubing usually only lasts for 5 or so years before failing but as this was a temporary set-up until I settled on the final location for things I thought I would be safe using it for a few months. Famous last words.

    Lesson #1: ALWAYS use braided stainless steel lines instead of the poly ones!!

    Lesson #2: Use a check-valve no matter how new the piping is or how temporary the setup is going to be!

    Lesson #3: If your setup allows it turn the water (as well as the device attached to it of course) off when not in use.

    Java "Water water everywhere, and not a drop to drink." phile

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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    well * * the Smeg manual

    I have been sent the operating manual by SMEG for this machine.

    They said the machine has 12 month warranty and recommends plumbing in, and is guaranteed against leaks for that 12 months.
    Smeg store told me thousands of them sold, made in italy, under licence by a major espresso machine manufacturer.

    i must say its a pretty amazing manual. Better than any I have seen so far.

    it seems its a manual or semi auto machine, *comes with the steam nozzle so of course the only way.

    pours a 30 second shot unless you adjust it, and is set at 97 Celcius, * adjustable. Very quick machine warm up time.





    see page 97 for the main specs * * * * ie *its 1800 watt boilers etc

    OKAY -THE LINK TO THE SERVICE manual download is as follows-

    beware its 3.1 MB * but its very thorough.

    http://www.smegtech.com/site/smeg/pdf_libretti/SCM1-EU.pdf


    the machine comes on slide out rollers, *more or less it seems like FC *suggest, so it can be slid out easily.

    Also comes with a key, I must say thats good for safety. *Maybe its a pain. ? others differ?

    and a light, *well it would look good I think.

    re- plumbing shut off valves.-


    I asked a plumber friend re shut off valves, he told me he has given up suggesting them as residential clients always want the cheapest and dont understand or want to pay. *He always suggest them to high rise unit owners and guess what, *9 out of 10 wont pay for this device.

    like those in the know suggest, they are a great device but most dont care. *

    My local cafe didnt know where the shut off valve is. *I asked the manager yesterday. He bought the shop lease one year ago and hasnt ever turned off the machine. *Its a large 3 group.

    anyway if anyone does download the manual please let me know your opinion.

    I see also even though its $3900 aussie dollars, here, in Europe its on the web for $3000.00 australian. *Or $2300 US * in america.

    cheers

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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    a post of the suggested set up from SMEG. machine comes to be built in with rollers.


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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    Mark:

    Appliances that can result in water damage to your home include, water heaters, washing machines, dishwashers,refrigerators with icemakers plumbed in, espresso machines and in line filtration systems and even evaporative coolers mounted on the roof.

    Yes, there are if you look on internet special valves and sensors which can prevent flooding for all of these appliances.

    In normal home use no one turns off the water to their washing machines or dishwashers or water filtration units/espresso machines and I would say that there is a small but real risk of flooding with any of these appliances.

    I think rather than turning the water off and on all the time just periodically inspect the lines to your espresso machine and also ensure that a pressure limiting valve is fitted.

    Grant

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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    marc:

    I was reading your post again. Yes, a high rise. Mmm. Yes, some extra flood prevention measures would be required.

    Even Java in his min high rise (a high rise dug into the ground) could have saved his basement stuff.

    It is funny how things can happen. A friend of ours was helping someone with his dishwasher. When he put it back he didnt realise but he had fractured one of the water fittings. It ended up leaking slowly and unfortunately onto the wooden floor laid on the concrete. By the time they had found the leak, it had warped all the floorboards. Mmm. Took two months before they could rip up the boards and replace them as they had to dry first. Mind you the flood protection things only work when a line completely fractures pretty well.

    Grant

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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn link=1128607812/0#14 date=1128676781
    In normal home use no one turns off the water to their washing machines or dishwashers or water filtration units/espresso machines....

    Grant
    They dont :-?,

    Ive made it a habit of doing exactly that for the past 40 years or so :P.

    A friend of ours was helping someone with his dishwasher. When he put it back he didnt realise but he had fractured one of the water fittings. It ended up leaking slowly and unfortunately onto the wooden floor laid on the concrete. By the time they had found the leak, it had warped all the floorboards. Mmm. Took two months before they could rip up the boards and replace them as they had to dry first. Mind you the flood protection things only work when a line completely fractures pretty well.
    Actually Grant, Shut-Off Protection Valves will work in the situation you describe as any pressure imbalance sensed between the intake and the exhaust will operate the valve and shut the water supply off. They also are not that expensive these days, considering the amount of damage they can potentially prevent.

    Mal.

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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    An interesting discussion.
    For the record there are a lot of water lines that go POP in the middle of the night that we never hear of.
    A few years ago I had involvement in the water filtration industry and spent a few years assisting a group of concerned industry professionals write a standard for water treatment appliances. This standard has been up and running for a number of years. During my time playing water filters, I was suprised to hear first hand about the actual number of burst hoses and water filter housings. Most of the flooding occured at night. Why at night???? Very simple, during the night there is usually a pressure build up in the water mains, due to the fact that we are asleep and that we are not using as much H2O.
    Pressure limiting valves are designed to do just that limit the pressure. Please be aware that these pressure limiting valves/devices DO FAIL and FAIL they DO.
    Flow is a different issue. There are things that can be done to restrict the flow.
    It was always recommended to turn all appliances connected to the H20 off at night. But who does??? Not many, including ME.
    My water filter specialist recently demonstrated a neat little device called a Leak Controller. It incorporates a water alarm and shut-off system. It has a small main unit that the water line passes through and a sensor pad. When the sensor pad detects any moisture it sends a signal back to the main unit and the water shuts of. Simple and very effective. If you would like some info on this unit email brad@premierwater.com.au
    Back to the original POST. Have had a few coffees from some of these wall units, so far nothing to write home about.
    John

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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    I have been watching this list quietly almost ever since it started around 18 months ago and on the basis of my own professional background in espresso coffee machines, sales and service, the time has come to place my first post which will be in support of a fellow industry professional who seems to be being hounded around this topic by someone with no expertise.

    There are a couple of things I can add to all this discussion on plumbing.

    The context of this topic is with regards to espresso machines is it not?

    I fail to understand what the big deal is about not wanting to turn the water on and off to a plumbed in espresso machine. Its black and white.

    For anyone that is at work or at home all day with their machine, this means simply ON first thing in the morning, and OFF last thing at night before bed.

    For the rest of you, it means ON/OFF for the b/fast cuppa, and probably ON again when you get home from work, and OFF before bed. And on the weekend, just like any cafe, ON first up, and OFF at the end of the day or before bed. Or, it might mean On/Off at b/fast, lunch, and in the evening.

    At worst, this means ON and OFF only 3 times a day, and probably only twice.

    WHATS SO DIFFICULT ABOUT THAT, that we have to have someone with no expertise in here not only trying hard to discredit the advice, but "recommending" to list readers not to follow it?

    Particularly in the context of the post in the first page of this topic, where it was stated in so many words, that some / many domestic / or in built / machines were not really manufactured with the idea in mind that they would be plumbed in and end up being "modified" to the task, and because of this, can be problematic particularly from the point of view of drainage, and therefore can even more easily fill your up house with water.

    The idea of whether to turn water on/off or not is really quite simple - Leave it on at your own peril.


    G.

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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    Gonzo:

    This expertise thing bugs me. A lot of this is just opinion, not whether you have been in the industry for 20 years.

    If you take that line then we would just sit and listen to the experts.

    Grant

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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    What weve come up with so far:

    - Turn water off after use.
    - Use auto-shutoff valves.
    - Use pressure limiting valves.
    - Use braided steel hoses.
    - Night is the riskiest time, due to lack of use.
    - Inline filtration units have built in pressure limiting valves.
    - Hose/inlet failure can cost you heaps of $$$.
    - Extra care must be taken with regards to inbuilt appliances that use water.



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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    Nunu:

    I was just speaking to a cafe owner and he said that he wouldnt turn the water off overnight as it would just cause complications by people not turning it back on in the morning. He said that flooding probably wouldnt be a serious issue in the cafe anyway, even if it did happen.

    Another EXPERT opinion. :)

    I wouldnt turn the water off to my machine as I have it on a timer to come on in the morning.

    I suppose the only step I might consider is putting a auto shutoff valve on it. To be frank though Im really not worried about it.

    Again though it is relative risk. I remain comfortable with leaving it on. It also has a plumbed in drain so it eliminates flooding from free flowing through the machine in event of a valve failure.

    Grant

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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    Most cafe owners know virtually nothing about espresso machines (and coffee).

    They wouldnt know where to find the stop cock to turn it off. They wont even replace replaceable water filters that have "replace at 6 monthly inetrvals" printed on them in large capital letters.

    They are merely the driver, not the mechanic.

    They have no knowledge of multiples of espresso machine installations...if they know anything about it, they only know it about their own single installation, and their own singular experience with it. If they have never had a failure, they dont realise they should be worried about it. So its a pointless excercise asking them about it Im afraid.

    Cafe owners are not in the coffee and coffee machine industries and therefore cannot be EXPERTS in those fields.

    Famous last words. Your expert said "...He said that flooding probably wouldnt be a serious issue in the cafe anyway, even if it did happen....."

    I personally have knowledge of a water line to an espresso machine that burst in a cafe in a very large shopping mall. The water ran all night, flooding various surrounding businesses, making its way along the atrium outside those shops, and eventually ending up in the lift well of the nearest elevator. The elevator failed, was repaired, and subsequently failed again because they hadnt got all the water out of the hydraulics the first time around.

    You can guess at the final account. Centre Management passed the cost on.

    This is preventable, and an extremely simple exercise. Turning on and off is covered in professional barista classes, its even written in barista books.

    There is no excuse for bad management, and I dont understand whats to argue over and over about. I have simply warned the list about leaving the water on.


    Nunu and Java please note:

    Whilst stainless steel braided reinforced water hoses are one of the the best kind of flexible water hoses to use, they do fail. Inside the braided stainless steel, it is still a rubber hose subject to bursting through age, fatigue, chafing, contact with hot water, etc. In addition, they can and do also fail at the ends, where the hose is crimped onto the end union/nipple.

    Such hoses may fail a couple of days after being fitted from brand new, or 10 years down the track.

    Thats the thing you see...you cant tell when the hose is going to fail.


    Im tired of being run around this topic with pointless and unnecessary, cyclic argument.

    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    FC,

    This has actually been quite a productive topic.

    I mean people now know about flood prevention devices as an option too.

    The topic has broadened from turning the water off as one option to these flood prevention devices.

    Not everyone will want to turn the water off. The option might not be acceptable.

    I have found the following devices:

    1. Alarms hooked up to surface flooding protection sensors. Cost $90AUD approx.

    2. Alarms hooked up to surface flooding protections sensors and an auto shut off valve $100AUD approx.

    3. Device that only allows 5L of water to flow continuously then shuts off. Cost unknown.

    There are some other devices too that look like they hook up to the solenoids in say a washing machine and so the water should only be allowed to flow when these are on. Cost unknown.

    Some people have alluded to other sophisticated devices but it looks like something highly effective can be sourced for less than $100.

    Sounds good to me!

    Grant

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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    Quote Originally Posted by Fresh_Coffee link=1128607812/15#22 date=1128757746
    Nunu and Java please note:

    Whilst stainless steel braided reinforced water hoses are one of the the best kind of flexible water hoses to use, they do fail. Inside the braided stainless steel, it is still a rubber hose subject to bursting through age, fatigue, chafing, contact with hot water, etc. In addition, they can and do also fail at the ends, where the hose is crimped onto the end union/nipple.

    Such hoses may fail a couple of days after being fitted from brand new, or 10 years down the track.

    Thats the thing you see...you cant tell when the hose is going to fail.
    I never said they wouldnt fail FC. *Every hose and pipe out there *will eventually fail. Guaranteed. Whether they are made of poly, rubber, PVC, copper, or iron. The difference between them being the mean time between failures with the range being as little as a few years for the poly tubing to 50 years for the metal pipes.

    I dont know about over there in Oz but here in the US it is now standard to use the flexible hoses/pipes (usually the fiber reinforced vinyl or the flexible plastic ones vs the braided SS ones due to their being cheaper) to connect from the main water pipes in the building to all the sinks, toilets, and plumbed in devices such as washing machines and dishwashers. Virtually the only devices that use water that are hard plumbed in with the same materials that the main water pipes are made from are hot water heaters and boiler type furnaces. *Everything else uses a lower grade/rated type of pipe/hose to connect to the main water supply.

    Over the course of my life I have seen every one of these types of pipes/hoses break/leak, from the cheapo poly tubing right up to the most expensive rigid copper and iron piping. I have had the boilers in both furnaces and hot water heaters suddenly rupture and start spewing water.

    Yet despite this no one I know (or have even heard of) turns off the water supply to *all of these devices every night or when they leave their house.

    If your espresso machine is properly plumbed in with any of the higher grade hoses or pipes there is no more of a risk of it leaking than there is of the connections to your sinks and toilets leaking. If you are using high quality/rated hose/pipe to connect the espresso machine to the water supply and you are turning it off every night to prevent a leak then you should by the same logic also be turning off the water supply to all the sinks, toilets etc in your house for the same reason. Assumming youre using the same hose/pipe on the espresso machine (and that its properly routed and connected) that is used on the sinks, the sinks actually have a higher chance of failing due to their having hot water running through them rather than room temp water.

    Yes, to minimize the risk of accidental flooding you should be turning off the water supply to all appliances/devices when-ever theyre not in actual use. Do people do it? No, they dont. Why? Because its a matter of convenience and risk assessment.

    Our entire life is one continuous risk assessment after another. Everybodys level of acceptable risk is different and everybodys level of risk is different depending on their equipment and environment.

    In reguards to the risk of a water leak barring going to the extreme of shutting off the water to the entire building every night there is no one answer that is "right" for everyone.

    The "right" answer will be different for every individual depending on their equipment, their environment, and their personal willingness to accept risk versus convenience.

    It is not up to any of us to tell another "This is what you *must do.". The best we can do is to inform people of our personal assessment based on our experience and beliefs of the various levels of risk involved in the usage of their equipment and the materials involved and then let them decide for themselves what materials are most appropriate and what level of risk is acceptable to them.

    Having said all that my personal opinion/advice (which you are free to use or ignore in part or in whole as you wish) in re plumbed in water connections to an espresso machine is that:
    • Poly tubing should *never be used.
    • Use a Stainless Steel Braided hose if you cant plumb in using copper or other metal piping due to the location or the need to be able to easily move the machine.
    • Route the water line as far as possible from the boiler and other heat generating parts of the machine or other sources of heat.
    • Route the water line as far as possible from any electrical wiring.
    • Route the water line out of any sunlight.
    • Install an easilly accessible and easily manipulated shut-off valve where the house piping connects to the espresso machines water line.
    • Anchor all water lines (the distance between anchor points will be determined by the material used and the installation) to reduce damage from vibrations.
    • Turn off the water supply to the espresso machine when it is not being used if it is appropriate to your equipment and your usage of it.
    • Use some kind of a device that detects a leak and shuts off the water on the affected leg.


    Java "My fingers are tired" phile

  26. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    184

    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    FC, this is the most useful thread I have read in a long time.

    In the charge for plumbed in machines in the home this is one issue I have never seen raised. Its something people should at least think about.

    Better get myself a shut off device.

    I think washing machines are left without auto shut off (my dishwasher has one though) because washing machines are generally in proper wet areas and at least have a drain near by (or should) if they over flow - although even this probably wouldnt save you.

  27. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    441

    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    all these nipples and stopcocks, now I know why the plumber next door is always smiling!

    ... sorry, just trying to lighten the mood in here ...

  28. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    309

    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    Meile have produced a similar looking machine for years http://www.miele.com.au/products/lis...=30&domestic=1 that looks bloody cool so this may be a copy of their design (or vica versa).

    Nothing wrong with this design in principle, particularly if style and integration are primary buying considerations. Downsides are: expensive, thermoblock, non portable.

    Cheers

  29. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,530

    Re: New SMEG Intergrated Plumbed Machine-picture

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    I need to get a trolley, so I can push my machine around, or maybe a nifty carrying case.

    Its like having one of those LG lcd internet fridges. Good to show off to your friends, but is it really all that practical?



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