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Thread: What to buy??

  1. #1
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    What to buy??

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi. *
    I am pretty ignorant to the coffee scene but know i love it. *I had my heart set on buying a full automatic Jura C5 or C9....mainly for convenience and lack of experience. *My mother has a Jura and loves it. *Anyway....my flat mate says Im mad and I should get a espresso machine. *Anyway....done some research and many people say that the average person cannot tell the difference between coffee from an auto and coffee from a espresso machine. *???? *Whats your opinion. *And also, one guy told me that you practically have to take a course to learn how to make a good coffee with an espresso machine. *I like the idea of the full auto for convenience but I also want it to taste good. *
    Can you please enlighten me?
    Katty

  2. #2
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    Re: What to buy??

    the average person probably cant, but then the average person drinks instant too...

    I think its more that youll get a coffee similar to some cafes out of a full auto, but coffee snobs hold themselves to higher standards that ur average cafe. I decided to go for the espresso machine and am glad I did. Its a lot more stuffing around, but you have full control over your coffee and can get a much better result. full autos are OK, but I know that Id end up being frustrated. a friend of mine has a full auto Saeco and loves it, again for the convenience. just depends on whats more important, and only you can answer that...

  3. #3
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: What to buy??

    Welcome Katty

    "Should I buy an auto?" is one of the most commonly asked questions on CoffeeSnobs. The consensus among seasoned Snobs is no.

    It depends on what path you want to take. If you want the no-fuss solution, go the auto. Yes you can get nice coffee from an auto but one aspect that makes us CoffeeSnobs is that we like to have greater control over the coffee preparation process in the quest for great coffee rather than OK or good coffee.

    An often quoted problem of autos is the need for maintenance and the greater likelihood of breakdown. I havent owned one but Ive seen comments on here from those who have enjoyed years of service from their auto. But at my workplace Ive also seen an auto machine break down within one week of purchase .

    The other standard advice is to go and visit a coffee machine seller and explore your options. Check the Site Sponsor list on the left.

  4. #4
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    Re: What to buy??

    Hi Katty,

    Id like to think even the average person could tell the difference between coffee from an auto and coffee properly prepared from a manual machine. But a barista course is recommended with a manual machine unless you dont mind a bit of trial and error. Also, youll find plenty of help here.

    charlie

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    Re: What to buy??

    hiya - chime in as well.

    No doubt the average person can easily taste the difference between a well prepared coffee versus an auto.

    the question isnt whether they can or not, but whether it matters to them or not.. I think, maybe the best question, is whether you find coffee served at macafe acceptable? - if you do, then youll go well with a good quality super auto, if you have hunt down a decent espresso place for coffee, and would sit sans coffee with friends at a macafe, then a super auto is not going to satisfy you.

    hence the monika "coffeesnobs" perhaps? ::)

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    Re: What to buy??

    Hello Katty and welcome.

    Only you have the answer that is right for you.

    You say your mother is happy with her auto. I assume you know her machine well? Are you happy with it and the coffee it produces?

    Are you buying the machine for you or your flat mate?

    The two types of coffee (from a well set up auto running good quality beans and a conventional "manual" type machine used properly) are not the same, but what is best for you depends on what floats your own boat.

    Do you have friends that have *good quality manual machines? What do you think of a well made coffee from one of them compared to your mums auto?

    I have loads of happy "auto" customers, and I also have loads of happy "manual" customers and ultimately, we are all individuals.

    Hope this helps.
    Regardz,
    Attilio
    very first CS site sponsor.


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    Re: What to buy??

    Good advice above.

    I would only add that if you could beg borrow or borrow an espresso machine to try, then you might have a better comparison to make.

    Dont base your judgment off the first coffee you make on the espresso machine though... But maybe the owner can make you a decent cup.

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    Re: What to buy??

    Before going down the path of my machine purchase i too looked at auto and fully manual machines. We have an auto machine at work and i think it makes a reasonable coffee for what is asked of it but i was able to make a proper comparison while at a friends place.
    I hadnt been there for a while and we popped in and to my surprise he had a gleaming Giotto.

    There was no comparison between the short black in that and the machine at work, yes the beans were different, both nice. You get a totally different drink and nuances out of the end result but at the end of the day you need to weigh up what it is you are after.

    Take the advice of the sponsors and do some investigating, you will find some valuable advice and assistance from people who are passionate about their coffee. After all they are "coffeesnobs" ;)

    Mal

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    Re: What to buy??

    Thanks for your replies. I am able to borrow an espresso machine so Im going to go with that and see for myself.

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    Re: What to buy??

    For me the making of the coffee is where I can go into my own little coffee world and prepare my coffee and forget about the world for a few minuets. I think that you can learn from reading the forum, asking questions and trialand error if you are prepared to do so. As for a course, I have done 2 courses now (one sunbeam one and one real one) and while I learnt something at each course I could also say that they were not nessessarly essential they can help you perfect your process. I have found some of the info is contradictary so I just do what is best for me.
    I use a manual machine and take the time to lovingly prepare coffee for my wife and hot choc for the ratbags.
    My 2 bob worth.
    Have fun and enjoy your coffee.
    Regards
    Crisp Image

  11. #11
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: What to buy??

    Some really good advice above, but just be careful about borrowing "a" espresso machine and doing comparos with it....a really good quality super auto will set you back what a very good espresso machine will set you back, so you should only try a high end espresso machine with fresh coffee and a good grinder (and by that I mean say a Rocky or above) and then see whats what....please let us know what espresso machine you are using for your test and whether it has pressurised baskets or not (ie only a couple of holes in the outside of the bottom of the basket compared to hundreds of a commercial style basket).

    Cheers

    PS. I cannot stand the product that the auto puts out and frankly if you taste a coffee well made on a good espresso machine paired to a good grinder you are unlikely to be satisfied with an auto. The fact that you care enough to research and then post on here makes that more likely than not to my mind. :)

  12. #12
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: What to buy??

    ...ohh.. and dont expect to get the best out of the espresso machine and grinder within a day!! It will take some hours of trial and error to get a good consistent result....and if you must used pre-ground coffee pls make sure its fresh from a local roaster, not supermarket because you will NEVER get an even half decent result with that stuff....but really dosing and tamping can only do so much, you really need a grinder of good quality....lets face it the auto has a grinder built in and uses beans, so dont let it win based on freshness of grind and ability to grind to suit the auto machine...

    Cheers

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    Re: What to buy??

    Cool. My flatmate has done a barista course and is happy to help me with the espresso. Ill let you know what brand etc the machine is when my friends lends me hers. Cant wait.

  14. #14
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: What to buy??

    Excellent - keep us posted Katty...you have joined an association of loons who adore a great brew!!! ;D

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    Re: What to buy??

    Katty welcme to our world of coffee! As you can see there are many here who are passionate, obsesive, addicted or iust a plain snob whatever you would lie to call it about their coffee!!
    We have given our thoughts and ideas about ur choice but ultimatley his is about u and what u want!! Its about what u want, ease, cost, and how much u r prepared to work and learn to make great coffee!
    For me it is as much about the making of it- trying to make it better than last time, getting everything perfect, constantly improving, and seeing many happy which is tries. For me its as mug about this as it is about the coffee itself! The journey! ;D ;D :)

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    Re: What to buy??

    I personally think that the Jura machines are awesome. I used one in my shop thanks to Attilio at Cosmorex. Perfect for the situation.

    Would I use one at home? No way...Id be on 20 coffees a day just because of the simplicity of them.

    An espresso machine slows me down and makes me drink less (thank god).

  17. #17
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: What to buy??

    All of the above is great info. Here is my 5 cents worth.

    Of the 30 or so staff at work, only 3 will walk downstairs for better coffee than we can get from the Jura super-auto upstairs.

    Would you be one of the 3? If yes, the super-auto wont do.

    Only you can know the answer.

    Greg
    One of the snobbiest of the snobs.

  18. #18
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: What to buy??

    That may not be fair on the espresso machine Greg...presumably the 3 the 3 have to pay for it downstairs, and they have to walk to it (we are lazy) and line up say....it could well be that many more of the 30 would much prefer decent espresso machine barista made coffee compared to the super auto.

    Cheers

  19. #19
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: What to buy??

    Quote Originally Posted by 71646D7D716A6A1E0 link=1242102664/17#17 date=1242426225
    That may not be fair on the espresso machine Greg...presumably the 3 the 3 have to pay for it downstairs, and they have to walk to it (we are lazy) and line up say....it could well be that many more of the 30 would much prefer decent espresso machine barista made coffee compared to the super auto.

    Cheers
    Actually its very fair. :D

    The machine downstairs is in the training room only one floor below the office, and the coffee from both machines costs $1.

    Greg

  20. #20
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: What to buy??

    ...they still have to walk....moooo, mooooo :) Of course they also probably wouldnt know the back end of an espresso machine if they fell over it...

    Cheers :)

  21. #21
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: What to buy??

    Quote Originally Posted by 495C5545495252260 link=1242102664/19#19 date=1242460044
    ...they still have to walk....moooo, mooooo :) *
    Cheers :)
    Exactly.

    Good coffee isnt worth a walk down, and then up a flight of stairs for 90% of the staff. If Katty is one of the 90% then, IMO, a super-auto is a viable option.

    Greg

  22. #22
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: What to buy??

    Your point is well made Greg, but I wonder for how many of them it is the fear of trying to use the machine, or lack of skill and direction if they have used one before which turns them off going downstairs. In other words if you held demos for the 90% and showed them what great coffee they can get compared to the auto (and how its relaxing doing the making) I wonder what percentage would then go downstairs?

    Cheers

  23. #23
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: What to buy??

    Quote Originally Posted by 495C5545495252260 link=1242102664/21#21 date=1242467571
    Your point is well made Greg, but I wonder for how many of them it is the fear of trying to use the machine, or lack of skill and direction if they have used one before which turns them off going downstairs. *In other words if you held demos for the 90% and showed them what great coffee they can get compared to the auto (and how its relaxing doing the making) I wonder what percentage would then go downstairs?

    Cheers
    The machine that is now in the training room spent two years upstairs in the staff room, and everybody either used it or drank instant.

    It is also a super-auto--just not a one-button push. And yes, some drank instant (the instant was free) rather than learn which buttons to push, and return the milk to the fridge!

    There is a coffee barn next door, and some will go there on the way into the office, and spend $4 for a coffee that I would consider to be a sink shot. I cant work it out, I dont even try anymore.

    For me its not so much the machine that matters, its how important is the taste of the coffee itself compared to the difficulty of obtaining it.

    I just want people to make a decision that will keep them happy long term.

    Greg

  24. #24
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: What to buy??

    Greg - as I say you make a good point....

    Now, Kattie, I agree, get the best for you long term...

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    . DONT BUY A SUPER AUTO THATS ALL!!!!!!





    ........

    ;D



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