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Thread: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

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    Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    From switching it on, to pouring your second cup. Whats your routine - how much do you flush, steam, grind and grunt?

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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    Based roughly on the manual, this is my routine: Turn on at swtich, open the steam wand. Wait until pump has stopped and turn off the steam wand. Wait for 5ish minutes, or until the gauge reads 1-ish bar. Turn the steam wand on for 5 seconds. Turn off. Take the group handle out, flush water for two seconds. Put the group handle back in. Wait for the machine to fully warm up, around 30 minutes.

    Pulling shots, my routine is to change the grind according to the environment temperature. Grind out any residual coffee. Put enough coffee into hopper. Grind out some more coffee (as my grinder retains some grinds in the chute). Grind for a shot, backflush the machine, collapse the coffee twice, tamp, polish, insert the group handle into the machine, and brew. Wallah! COFFEE!

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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    Mines on a timer so I dont go through any startup procedures. I just make sure the water tank is topped up when I finish using it.

    I now once per week flush out a fair bit of water though the hot water tap to fill the boiler with fresh water.

    I always make sure the grinder is empty and the chute brushed out after use. Grinding depends on the bean and the ambient conditions that Ashleigh mentions. I get it right most times but some beans have been tricky requiring extra fine or extra coarse grind.

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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    Good tip flynn_aus, I think I might start flushing the boiler.

    I forgot to mention that i fill her u with brita filtered water before i turn her on. Im still waiting for my morning coffee to kick in...

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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    Quote Originally Posted by 1A2833373E323C335B0 link=1250979468/3#3 date=1250983531
    Good tip flynn_aus, I think I might start flushing the boiler.

    I forgot to mention that i fill her up with brita filtered water *before i turn her on. Im still waiting for my morning coffee to kick in...
    Good stuff Ashleigh,

    I think its wise for us to keep in mind that although Brita make for nice drinking water, they do little if anything after the first week to decrease hardness. I have seen some pretty sad looking machines where Brita jugs have been used. These days, I tend to recommend that a Brita is the least you should do, but it really wont do much at all to decrease the need for descaling.

    For those who are unable to install permanent filtration, I have been suggesting this combo combined with metre of teflon hose on the outlet....
    http://www.clean-machine.com.au/product.php?productid=325&cat=8721&page=1
    http://www.clean-machine.com.au/product.php?productid=497&cat=8718&page=1

    I think the kit costs around $160 + freight and you replace the cartridges every 5500L or 12 months- whichever comes 1st. There are also cartridges designed for heavier use scenarios....

    Bernard Peters of Bombora informs that he has benchtop coffee specific filtration units in transit as well. These will look a whole heap better but essentially do the same job ;)

    Lots of CS sponsors deal with Bombora and any should be able to source great filtration products for any CSers specific circumstances.

    2mcm

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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    Thats what I was wondering about the book instructions - do you really need to turn the steam wand on after 5 minutes? You cant do that by timer. Also how much of a cooling/warming flush do you need to give it initially, between shots and after its been idle for some time?

    Also, washing out the water tank with detergent every day seems a bit excessive. Maybe once a week, if that, Id have thought. I just top it up with a jug leaving it in the system. The only thing that bothers me is the gaping holes on top allow muck to fall in. You wouldnt want that to accumulate. Thats the trouble with bottom-feeding water systems.

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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    My machine is on a timer as well. It preheats for around 40 minutes. Typically I walk past it around the .5 hour mark and open the steam wand and purge for 5 seconds. Just before I grind my first double basket I flush water through the group for around 8-10 seconds. This is a one-off because machine has been sitting idle for a while. Just before grinding my second basket, or any subsequent baskets, I only flush enough water thru the group to clean any residual grinds off the shower screen (i.e. a couple of seconds). If the machine has been sitting idle for any extended length of time Ill run another decent flush thru the group until there is not sign of bubbling, noisy steamy water coming out.

    When grinding I typically overfill the basket, collapse with 3 taps, top up, tap a couple of more times, sweep with my number 2 dosing tool (sort of NSEW, or WSNE, or ...), and tamp. Then I flip my Pullman tamper around, tap the side of the basket with handle very gently, and polish. I make sure there are no excess grinds around the rim or any other part of the group handle before locking it in.

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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    Quote Originally Posted by 346B73656E6569606063636B6768060 link=1250979468/4#4 date=1250985499
    I think its wise for us to keep in mind that although Brita make for nice drinking water, they do little if anything after the first week to decrease hardness.
    I use filtered water from my fridge water dispenser (it has an in-line cartridge filter that I am supposed to change every 6 months). Is that OK (ie better than Brita jug)?

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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    Quote Originally Posted by 6A617661626F79000 link=1250979468/7#7 date=1250992331
    I use filtered water from my fridge water dispenser (it has an in-line cartridge filter that I am supposed to change every 6 months). Is that OK (ie better than Brita jug)?
    Nope Java- probably not as good as its for drinking water...

    Bombora will be able to supply a replacement cartridge which will do the job though...

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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    Quote Originally Posted by 4F787E6E65740D0 link=1250979468/6#6 date=1250988513
    sweep with my number 2 dosing tool (sort of NSEW, or WSNE, or ...), and tamp.
    I take it you mean Scottie Callaghans dosing tool - do you use a bigger number on the single portafilter?

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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    First of all, there really isnt anything special about the giotto and I dont really see how anyones routine using it will differ very much from using any other OK prosumer HX machine.

    I have a giotto at work. Its not on a timer, so I tend to throw a tea towel over the group head and flick it on as soon as I walk in the door. The tea towel seems to cut the warmup time in half. Fifteen minutes later, I draw a good 50ml of water through the portafilter and into a cup to warm things up, then Im good to go. The first shots can taste a touch cool, but they are pretty much fine in milk.

    The machine has its quirks, but, as with all machines, the important thing with it is to feed it the best coffee that you can get your hands on, be consistent in your routine and to clean and maintain it well. Theres no point fussing around about the difference between a 10mL flush and a 30mL flush, down-dosing vs updosing, the number of angels that you can fit on a tamper head, etc, if you are using cheap coffee that, is, say, over-fermented and metallic, your doses are out by 3 grams each time and you havent chemical backflushed your machine for two weeks.

    Cheers,
    Luca

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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    Quote Originally Posted by 6754454644555354424A4453210 link=1250979468/9#9 date=1250992945
    Quote Originally Posted by 4F787E6E65740D0 link=1250979468/6#6 date=1250988513
    sweep with my number 2 dosing tool (sort of NSEW, or WSNE, or ...), and tamp.
    I take it you mean Scottie Callaghans dosing tool - do you use a bigger number on the single portafilter?
    Yup.
    Actually, Ive only used the single basket once. I tend to stick with a double basket and my bottomless "group handle", or the Giottos stock double spout. 9 times out of 10 I can get away with the number 2 on the Giotto. Its the one with just a very slight curve. The curve increases as the tool number increases. Ive used a straight edge a few times but prefer the very slight curve.

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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    Quote Originally Posted by 736A7C7E1F0 link=1250979468/10#10 date=1250994613
    *Theres no point fussing around about the difference between a 10mL flush and a 30mL flush, down-dosing vs updosing,
    So what dosing ritual are you preferring these days, Luca?

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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    Quote Originally Posted by 5B68797A78696F687E76786F1D0 link=1250979468/12#12 date=1251004592
    Quote Originally Posted by 736A7C7E1F0 link=1250979468/10#10 date=1250994613
    *Theres no point fussing around about the difference between a 10mL flush and a 30mL flush, down-dosing vs updosing, *
    So what dosing ritual are you preferring these days, Luca?
    I use the giotto in the office with a timered macap m4d, mainly to make milk-based drinks rather than espresso. My concerns are making a good quality drink quickly and keeping the area clean, rather than exploring the extraction space. I tend to dial in the grinder to grind basically the right amount to fill the basket if I grind, rap twice gently and strike off level. The M4d doesnt have a PF holder, so whilst Im holding the PF whilst grinding, I tend to do a cooling flush and wipe down the drip tray, or I pour milk into jugs. Chris has set the machine to what tastes to me to be a mid to low temperature. I tend to buy coffee that likes a mid to high temperature, which means that it is next to impossible to burn the coffee. I just do a short flush and dont tend to fuss too much about it. I tend to cut the shots at about 20mL each; this isnt a setup that I have found conducive to long extractions and cutting the shots short gives me a lot of leeway so that I dont have to focus so much on what Im doing. I havent swapped portafilters to use a bigger basket to deal with the low showerscreen, but Im getting good results at the moment, so Im not too fussed. I usually steam two small jugs of milk, rather than one with milk for two. First, half of the time I end up using two different types of milk. Second, the giotto steaming action, which is superb - might well be the best steam wand/tip of any prosumer machine, is far better with a small jug of milk than with a large one. Sometimes with a 600mL jug, the boiler pressure will drop below 0.7 bar before Im done, at which point there isnt much point continuing, so Ill shut it off and wait for it to reach a higher pressure, then start steaming again. Easier to just do two small jugs. I can make two great milk-based drinks and be back at my desk in a little over two and a half minutes, so it works out really well. The important thing, of course, is to run awesome coffee through the machine, which leads to awesome results.

    Cheers,
    Luca

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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    Quote Originally Posted by 1D2A2C3C37265F0 link=1250979468/11#11 date=1251002857
    9 times out of 10 I can get away with the number 2 on the Giotto. Its the one with just a very slight curve. The curve increases as the tool number increases. Ive used a straight edge a few times but prefer the very slight curve.
    I like the sound of them. Ive roughly trimmed an old credit card to sort of do the job, but couldnt say how the curve compares to your number 2. How much do you sweep out of the basket in mm, do you reckon?

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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    Quote Originally Posted by 332A3C3E5F0 link=1250979468/13#13 date=1251010617
    *I havent swapped portafilters to use a bigger basket to deal with the low showerscreen, but Im getting good results at the moment, so Im not too fussed.
    I dont really have a concept of how low this showerscreen is in comparison to other units, and whether it matters. Should we be sweeping and tamping lower - or would make life easier to replace the stock double basket with another?

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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    Quote Originally Posted by 5063727173626463757D7364160 link=1250979468/15#15 date=1251011722
    Quote Originally Posted by 332A3C3E5F0 link=1250979468/13#13 date=1251010617
    *I havent swapped portafilters to use a bigger basket to deal with the low showerscreen, but Im getting good results at the moment, so Im not too fussed.
    I dont really have a concept of how low this showerscreen is in comparison to other units, and whether it matters. Should we be sweeping and tamping lower - or would make life easier to replace the stock double basket with another?
    I havent really done any extensive measurements. The showerscreens on prosumer machines seem to me to be lower than those on the commercial LMs and Synessos that I like to use. I also had to change my dosing on the giotto from my dosing for my bfc thingy at home so that there was more space. I havent tried putting one of the baskets that I use at home in the portafilter at work; maybe I should. Generally speaking, I think that its always going to be easier to work with a machine with a higher showerscreen and a portafilter capable of taking larger baskets. You can always dose less coffee in a larger basket, but obviously the size of the basket and how far the showerscreen sticks into it sets the upper limit. For what its worth, I have read that the giotto can apparently take 20 grams or something in its double basket. That may well be the case, but my impression is that its maximum capacity is less than some of the other machines that I have used - I had to change my dose. Like I said, though, I havent done any real measurements or experiments and this is all a matter of impression.

    Cheers,
    Luca

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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    Quote Originally Posted by 20392F2D4C0 link=1250979468/13#13 date=1251010617
    I havent swapped portafilters
    :question :question :question



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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    Quote Originally Posted by 063A273C363720353D36520 link=1250979468/17#17 date=1251014741
    Quote Originally Posted by 20392F2D4C0 link=1250979468/13#13 date=1251010617
    I havent swapped portafilters
    :question :question :question
    The portafilters that came with the giotto at work are fairly shallow. *It may be necessary to switch to deeper portafilters in order to accommodate deeper baskets.

    ... or are you saying that I should be calling them "group handles" :P

    Cheers,
    Luca

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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    The word filter didnt catch your use of "portafilters" instead of group handles. :P

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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    Quote Originally Posted by 4370616260717770666E6077050 link=1250979468/14#14 date=1251011579
    Quote Originally Posted by 1D2A2C3C37265F0 link=1250979468/11#11 date=1251002857
    9 times out of 10 I can get away with the number 2 on the Giotto. Its the one with just a very slight curve. The curve increases as the tool number increases. Ive used a straight edge a few times but prefer the very slight curve. *
    I like the sound of them. Ive roughly trimmed an old credit card to sort of do the job, but couldnt say how the curve compares to your number 2. How much do you sweep out of the basket in mm, do you reckon?

    My 11 year old daughter has just gotten into photography. I gave her an assignment *:) . Each square is 5mm.



    I purchased the small half dozen home set and ended up using 4 out of the 6 with my VBM Piccolo. Not sure whether because I struggled a bit more to get it right with the low showerscreen or because I had quite a few more SOs in the cupboard at the time and was also experimenting a lot with my roasting times , etc. Anyways, I think theyre handy to have around and fun to play with. Lately the #2 is the most popular. The home set isnt that expensive and look pretty swanky. *:) Good Fathers Day or BD present!

    Oh... P_O_R_T_A_F_I_L_T_E_R *:D

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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    Sometimes, it doesnt even work when you type portafilter until you do a "quote" and work out how its done

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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    In Lucas case it didnt catch the plural.

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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    Quote Originally Posted by 487F796962730A0 link=1250979468/20#20 date=1251023333

    My 11 year old daughter has just gotten into photography. I gave her an assignment *:) . Each square is 5mm.
    Tell her she did a fantastic job. Ta!

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    Re: Your Giotto (Premium Plus) bootup routine

    Quote Originally Posted by 4774656664757374626A6473010 link=1250979468/5#5 date=1250987838
    Thats what I was wondering about the book instructions - do you really need to turn the steam wand on after 5 minutes? You cant do that by timer. Also how much of a cooling/warming flush do you need to give it initially, between shots and after its been idle for some time?
    I always assumed that the instruction to turn the steam wand on after 5 mins referred to when you start the machine for the very first time only, to purge air from the system.


    Quote Originally Posted by 4774656664757374626A6473010 link=1250979468/5#5 date=1250987838
    Also, washing out the water tank with detergent every day seems a bit excessive. Maybe once a week, if that, Id have thought. I just top it up with a jug leaving it in the system. The only thing that bothers me is the gaping holes on top allow muck to fall in. You wouldnt want that to accumulate. Thats the trouble with bottom-feeding water systems. *
    Ive never washed out the water tanks on any of the machines Ive owned, except when doing a descale. This instruction sounds like those in your car logbook - check oil, water, tyres daily - who does that???
    Ive never noticed any muck getting through the holes in the tank lid.



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