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Thread: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

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    Senior Member javabeen's Avatar
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    Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    11 months into owning my new VBM Super and theres a fair bit of scale forming. Have a look at the two pics below! Mind you these are just of the top chamber of the e61 group, who knows whats going on in the boiler and on the other components! All after just 11 months!

    This all came about when I lowered the OPV pressure a in June this year and noticed the brew pressure gauge needle bouncing a little when the pressure had ramped up during a shot. The bouncing has been getting a little worse so I got on the phone to Talk Coffee today and Chris suggested it might be scale on the spring of the OPV valve and to check the machine for scale...and I did tonight!

    I was using Brita filtered water up until June and since then have installed a water and scale guard filter from Bombora. Now I just need to descale the machine (maybe a few times :-( ). Will leave this till Sunday as Ive got a large gathering at our place this Saturday and am a little pressed for time, and need the machine...

    So anyone else opened up their VBM/machine and peered inside?

    What do others that have had such scale build up recommend to use to descale?

    Ive got some Cafetto descaler but am thinking of Bomboras triple action descaler as it dissolves the scale not just lift it off. Im a little concerned the Cafetto descaler will dislodge a large piece and itll get stuck somewhere, which is partly the reason I will attempt descale after our function!

    Be interested to hear comments.

    Javabeen busy.




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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!


    Id say thats pretty typical Javabeen.

    Coincidentally had a customer come in earlier this week with the same prob, sold him some of the Bombora triple action, and he came back to day just to say thanks because the gauge was back to normal.


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    Senior Member javabeen's Avatar
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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    If thats typical, then thats scary!

    Dennis, I will order up some of the triple action. Given my pics:
    1. How much will I need, is 100ml enough for my situation
    2. Any idea how many applications Im gonna need to do?
    3. How long I should let the triple action rest in the boiler, overnight perhaps as a minimum?

    Thanks,
    Javabeen.

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    JB I only sell the 250ml bottle that is good for about 5 normal uses @ $19.00. *From memory you can double-dose, though check the instructions. *A 100ml bottle will be plenty and the instructions are on the back of the labels.

    I suggest you knock off the bits of scale from components that have been removed, rinse, re-assemble, then follow the instructions given. *

    Overnight is probably overkill. *did I mention to follow the instructions? ;)

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Another entry in the Brita jug doesnt do much to remove scale file...

    Might be worth pulling the boiler probe to ensure a complete fill Java.

    I can talk you through this if required.

    2mcm

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Additionally, there are step-by-step instructions on descaling the VBM DS HX machines on the 1st-line (usa) site at:
    http://www.1st-line.com/cofffact/vibiemme_descaling.htm
    - as well as the entire owners manual at:
    http://www.1st-line.com/machines/comm_mod/esprmach/vibiemme/Viebemme%20guide7a_press.pdf

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    hey Javabeen

    You are not alone. I have had my VBM for about 8/9 months. I asked 2mcm about checking scale and also pulled out the top of the grouphead. I have got plenty of scale - but not quite as bad as yours.

    It is a project for when I am on leave : ) as it will probably be fairly involved.

    I also used the Brita religiously - which clearly does not work!

    B

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    Senior Member javabeen's Avatar
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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    All good stuff guys, thanks for the responses. Randy, I know of the excellent manual written as Ive had it since I got my VBM and will follow the procedure outlined.

    Forget using the Brita filter for scale prevention - it doesnt work so others should take note.

    Will post again once I descale and get some pics of the end result as well. Stay tuned.

    Javabeen

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Thanks for all the info on the Brita not working, I will head to Bombora pronto.

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by 444F584F4C4B4B402E0 link=1252582960/7#7 date=1252618852
    All good stuff guys, thanks for the responses. Randy, I know of the excellent manual written as Ive had it since I got my VBM and will follow the procedure outlined.

    Forget using the Brita filter for scale prevention - it doesnt work so others should take note.

    Will post again once I descale and get some pics of the end result as well. Stay tuned.

    Javabeen
    For those who dont have the option of plumbing something in, Bombora do a flush kit http://www.clean-machine.com.au/product.php?productid=325&cat=8721&page=1

    Add a filter like this http://www.clean-machine.com.au/product.php?productid=497&cat=8718&page=1 and you have a portable system which can be attached to a laundry tap or similar and will be good for 12 months. RRP is ~$160. and then a $90 filter per year.

    In my case, I have braided inlet hoses to the kitchen taps. I just popped a filter into the line (good to 9 bar without a PLV) and all our cold water to the kitchen sink is filtered. Tastes good too!

    Chris

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    http://coffeeparts.com/accessories/water-filters-softners.html

    i am running a SCL-10 from ominipure, same as these sold by coffeeparts (top of page) inline on my plumbed in machine

    any opinion on the wording in the coffeeparts page

    mine *Cparts jb201 (scl10) - scale inhibitor
    ones below - *jb202s scale reduction

    i am hoping for a reduction, but would still expect some over time.
    was a very low cost option, and would be a simple way of setting an undersink water filter for a tank machine
    3 way spliter off cold tap, inline tap, filter, couple of hoses.
    then fill you jug under the sink?

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by 62697E696A6D6D66080 link=1252582960/7#7 date=1252618852
    Randy, I know of the excellent manual written as Ive had it since I got my VBM and will follow the procedure outlined.[x]
    very cool.. THANK YOU! nice to hear that all that hard work is appreciated and has been found useful!
    Forget using the Brita filter for scale prevention - it doesnt work so others should take note.[x]
    it depends on the water. I use about t
    1.5 to 2 liters of Brita water to 9 liters of reverse osmosis water. After about a year I descaled and the cleaning solution came out just about exactly as it went in. I also check the mushroom occasionally to keep an eye on how things are going inside.

    Also, check the The Insanely Long Water FAQ
    http://www.big-rick.com/coffee/waterfaq.html

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Hello all,
    Little unsure where to go after reading this, monday ill be picking up my GPP, and i have no water fitering arrangement at all, from reading on the bombora website, the triple action descaler isnt too badly priced, if i were to descale once a month, would that keep the scale at bay? or would it harm the machine, or not have the desired effect, I know i shouldnt be picky of this as it is expensive equipment we are trying to protect, but if i tell my other half we have to get water filtration after the 3k for this machine.........lets just say i may not post for a while :o, I had a laugh, I am situated in thornlands in brisbane....also anyone want to sell me one hardness testing strip? ;)ill pay for it, just dont see the sence in getting 50 of em :-?

    cheers in advance

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by 5E5A7C6565607F6867090 link=1252582960/12#12 date=1252657646
    Hello all,
    Little unsure where to go after reading this, monday ill be picking up my GPP, and i have no water fitering arrangement at all, from reading on the bombora website, the triple action descaler isnt too badly priced, if i were to descale once a month, would that keep the scale at bay? or would it harm the machine, or not have the desired effect, I know i shouldnt be picky of this as it is expensive equipment we are trying to protect, but if i tell my other half we have to get water filtration after the 3k for this machine.........lets just say i may not post for a while :o, I had a laugh, I am situated in thornlands in brisbane....also anyone want to sell me one hardness testing strip? ;)ill pay for it, just dont see the sence in getting 50 of em :-?

    cheers in advance

    Simple WSully- buy a good filter ;)

    Dont descale unless its required...

    Acid + metal = :-?

    2mcm

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    but if i tell my other half we have to get water filtration after the 3k for this machine.........lets just say i may not post for a while *
    did you not read this!, I had a laugh jokes mate, yeah ill have to start skimming some money!, she usually good with my spending but the 3k stung a bit!

    thanks 2mcm ;)

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    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    What can I say but TALK TO BERNARD (at Bombora). Ive had some great advice and am very happy that my filter & softener combo was designed for my water supply and my coffee machine.

    And the price was less than 10% the cost of the machine. :)

    Greg

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    Senior Member javabeen's Avatar
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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Heres an update.

    I did the descale using the Caffetto descale solution as I could not get the Bombora stuff soon enough as I wanted to get the job done ASAP. I did it Saturday night and it took 4 hours plus 1.5 hours of flushing the next morning!!!!

    Results - excellent - scale gone from mushroom and the boiler/machine as well. See pics below plus END RESULT section.

    There must have been a fair bit of scale in the whole machine because the water out of the group, steam wand, and hot water wand came out bluish green for quite some time during the process. I followed Randy Gs guide (thank you Randy) but BE FORWARNED!!!!!

    There was water everywhere during steps 20-24 on page 36. Water/descale solution came out of the valve behind the BOILER pressure gauge when doing the brew/group head flush(step 20).
    Water/descale solution also came out of the valve behind the BREW pressure gauge when doing the hot water wand flush(step 24). It was EASY to hold this valve up with pliers - I think this is the anti-vac valve, not sure *:-/ but doesnt matter.
    Doing the steam wand was OK with no leakage from valves.


    The water with descale solution going everywhere was OK as I dont think the Caffetto stuff is that hazardous - I had not skin irritation but kept my face well away plus I had eye protection (glasses *;D)
    Dont know about the Bombora stuff though, maybe Dennis/Bernard can chime in and advise.

    After descale I had to flush a hell of a lot of water through the whole machine the next morning as I still had that acidic taste coming out of the steam wand, group head and hot water wand. I went thru 3 water reservoirs but think the 3rd was just to be sure.

    END RESULT:
    - no more flickering brew pressure gauge - stable now
    - temp has improved - boiler gauge was between .9 and 1.2 before descale. Now its 1.0 to 1.25 *:)
    - more steam power now, Id say about 20% more - I use to do my morning milk for latte in about 12 secs. Now its down to about 8! Scary I tell you as now you have to be on the ball even more than the 12 secs which is crazy fast anyway *:o

    Can Randy/Dennis/Chris (Talk Coffee) please chime in and advise if the water spray during the steps advised above is normal and if so what they did to prevent it.

    All in all a worthwhile exercise for sure but one worth trying to prevent/reduce the time to do it as it was painful in my experience.

    Javabeen.




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    Senior Member javabeen's Avatar
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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by 7175534A4A4F504748260 link=1252582960/12#12 date=1252657646
    Little unsure where to go after reading this, monday ill be picking up my GPP, *
    Ive owned a few machines and I killed a Gaggia after 12 months of just tap water use. I know Gaggia have aluminum boilers as opposed to these HX beasts but that taught me my lesson about water quality and scale. As I mentioned, I installed a proper filtration/scale inhibition system myself after talking to Bernard from Bombora in June this year. This is all because of my concerns around scale build up.

    Its a no brainer really, just get the filtration system. You can see from my post descale pics that some of the silver (chrome Im guessing) has come off and exposed the bare metal under it. Hope this is nothing serious.

    Or at least have a plan to buy and install a filtration system (with scale inhibition) in the next 2 months.

    Now to insulate my boiler, wheres that Armaflex HT I bought... ;D

    All the best
    Javabeen descaling *:)

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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6763455C5C5946515E300 link=1252582960/12#12 date=1252657646
    would that keep the scale at bay? or would it harm the machine, or not have the desired effec
    Chris or others might confirm this but doesnt the GPP rely on a certain level of solutes for the water level detection system to function properly? If you use water that is too pure, you may find that the machine wont function as it thinks the tank needs filling. Correct?

    I think we also need to think about the water quality in your area plus the quantity of coffee you will be making when making the decision to go for a descale? Greg lives in Adelaide where the water is fairly ha

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by 5C57405754535358360 link=1252582960/17#17 date=1252902899
    I installed a proper filtration/scale inhibition system myself after talking to Bernard from Bombora in June this year.
    I am also looking at something at the moment for my Giotto, i descaled the unit using caffetto about a month ago but i think i will do it again in a month or so more once i have a filtration system in.
    From all accounts Greg is the guinea pig on a potential solution.

    Mal

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    hahaha great....
    Just before I read this post I have placed a bid on evil bay
    for a brita on tap filter.

    ....oh dear... :(

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    Senior Member Lovey's Avatar
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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by 5F55405757584C4A390 link=1252582960/18#18 date=1252913547
    Chris or others might confirm this but doesnt the GPP rely on a certain level of solutes for the water level detection system to function properly? If you use water that is too pure, you may find that the machine wont function as it thinks the tank needs filling. Correct?
    That is correct. I had this problem with my Giotto using water that was too pure. I added a little bit of tap water into the tank with the pure water and voila, problem solved.

    An now for a question ;D.

    Is the condition of the group head chamber and mushroom a good indicator of the condition of the inside of the boiler?
    I only ask as I pulled out my mushroom a few weeks ago and both it and the chamber were absolutely spotless *8-), and I was hoping that the innards of the boiler would be the same :-?.
    Thanks,
    Steve.

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Err....please people, take lots of care. My town water is notoriously soft and I use a water softner and for some reason I was convinced that I didnt need to descale that often...

    Here I am, 21 months later (!!! how did I leave it so long ???) and javabeens post prompted me to have a look.

    I hope nothing is seriously damaged in there. Ive notice the thermosyphon sometimes stops. Im guessing its got some scale in there. Its getting a mammoth descale as we speak.


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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    WOW :o pardon my ignorance as im new to e61 machines, but what is that im looking at? ::)as in what part

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Im not totally sure what it does, but its a plug thats at the top. So looking at the machine, at the very top of the grouphead there is a big hex nut with allen bolts on either side, remove the two allen bolts and this is what you pull out :p

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by 0105233A3A3F203738560 link=1252582960/23#23 date=1253075785
    WOW Shocked pardon my ignorance as im new to e61 machines, but what is that im looking at? Roll Eyesas in what part *
    That is called or referred to as an E61 Mushroom

    KK

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Hmm when I follow the descaling instructions, particularly

    "16) Place a suitable container under the hot water wand. Open the hot water valve and turn the power switch to
    Position I. Pump about 16 ounces of solution through the wand. Turn the Power Switch to Position 0 and then
    close the hot water tap and unplug the machine."

    I get water coming out of this little valve bit (attached)

    Ive got lots of hot water tap pumping through to get past before I finish... is this normal? it all pooled up inside the chassis at the bottom of the machine, so I dont think so, Im doing my best to keep it dry though.

    On the parts diagram its called a mercury outlet valve whatever that is, the picture in the diagram looks a little different to whats in mine too *:-?




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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    guh done two full flushes with a 3hr wait in between and still getting loads of black flakey crap coming out.... better look a little nicer next time, I need to finish this thing and go to sleep so I can get up and have a coffee * :(

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    Senior Member javabeen's Avatar
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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by 073539392127540 link=1252582960/26#26 date=1253085195
    I get water coming out of this little valve bit (attached)
    That I believe is the anti-vac valve. The pin bit gets loose when the machine is cold/boiler is not up to pressure and gets pushed out as the boiler comes to temp/pressure.

    You need to hold it up with a pair of pliers or your hand and that will stop the water coming out.

    Careful with flushing the group head without the water level sensor attached as you will get water/descale solution everywhere as it exist the other valve at the bottom of your picture of the hex nut thingy jutting out the top of the boiler - I think its some sort of boiler overfill/safety valve. This was recommended in Randy Gs 1st line manual version 7a and got me into some trouble. Randy has provided instructions that supersede some of these steps in his post here (the link is http://www.1st-line.com/cofffact/vibiemme_descaling.htm).

    I dont think Ill be flushing/backflushing the group head without the water level sensor attached next time.

    Cheers
    Javabeen

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    Senior Member javabeen's Avatar
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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by 63515D5D4543300 link=1252582960/27#27 date=1253102074
    guh done two full flushes with a 3hr wait in between and still getting loads of black flakey crap coming out....
    What brand of descaler did you use? I wonder if those flakes you mention could get jammed anywhere...youd hope not! :-/

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Yes, Im hoping not indeed. Im just using a citric acid solution at concentrations that were recommended to me a while ago... perhaps not the best option, but after checking out the mushroom I wasnt going to put it back in and use it without doing anything..heres hoping nothing is broken.

    And yeah, I figured the thing with the valve after reading your yellow writing again up a bit further. Im also following randys updated instructions, so hopefully wont make too much (more) mess.

    Cheers :)

  32. #32
    Senior Member javabeen's Avatar
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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Good luck with it Sammus, post some pics of the mushie once youre done so we can see how well your descale concoction worked.

    JB

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    woohoo 3rd time lucky, no more black flaky bits coming through the steam valve. Ive flushed about 3L of filtered water through there now and it still tastes a bit citrusy... getting better though. Heres hoping that does most of the boiler and I dont have to stand there holding that anti vac valve closed forever to do it thorugh the hot water tap too *:)

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    OK, so after a looong time flushing and whatnot, I finally got it all cleared out and snapped a pic of the mushroom

    The lack of flash on my iphone isnt giving a great photo at this time, but you can see its much improved :)

    there is still some bits of white scal there, and the surface is now very rough - I imagine it was originally smooth. Not a great thing, I can imagine it would only exacerbate scale build up. I think this is OK for now, Ill get my hands on some proper descaler soon and do it again I think.

    Cheers for alerting me to this, I can now rest a little easier :)

    Sam



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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Thats a bit better mate!, has that eaten the chrome away :oi guessing whats underneath is brass?, so what was the solution you used?

    Can anyone else comment on whether it is better or worst to use this solution rather than caffetto or the bombora descaler? in terms of eating metal, the reason i ask is that it seamed to take a lot longer to descale with Sammuss solution than it does with either of the two above mentioned solutions, im thinking its weaker and will cause less damage to internal components? I could be way off here, genuine question.

    cheers
    warren

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6F6B4D5454514E5956380 link=1252582960/34#34 date=1253138986
    Can anyone else comment on whether it is better or worst to use this solution rather than caffetto or the bombora descaler?
    Significantly worse. Citric will mobilise scale in nice big plaques- so it can block other narrow areas of the machine- like gliceurs.

    If citric was perfect, bombora and cafetto wouldnt need to bother producing proprietory products :-?

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Yeah I was worried about that when I saw how it came out. Everything seems to be function normal at the moment now, and my thermosython hadnt stalled overnight like it used to, and its actually idling at a much higher temp, like when it was new.

    Chris: do you know if those proprietary products would dissolve any flaky crap left behind by my citric acid mix?

    Furthermore; if it dissolves the build up so well, is it obvious when you use it if you have let it soak longer or not? With mine I just kept pumping it through the boiler till the little black bits stopped coming out.

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    cheers 2mcm, i thought there would be a logical explanation.

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Eek. Now Im too scared to look inside my machine... :o

  40. #40
    Senior Member javabeen's Avatar
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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Can someone with knowledge of metals and coffee chime in and explain
    1. if the exposed brass on the mushroom/machine is a concern/affects the coffee water at all?
    2. Is the chrome plating purely an aesthetic thing on the mushroom or does it have a functional purpose?

    Thanks in advance

    Javabeen.

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    No issue Javabeen,

    It all gets chromed so that you get bling on the bits of it that you can see *8-)

    Chris

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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Chris: do you know if those proprietary products would dissolve any flaky crap left behind by my citric acid mix?

  43. #43
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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by 4E7C7070686E1D0 link=1252582960/41#41 date=1253173686
    Chris: do you know if those proprietary products would dissolve any flaky crap left behind by my citric acid mix?
    Should do Sam ;)

    Chris

  44. #44
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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Sweet. I just found out bombora is a 30s drive from my place in Newcastle, Ill be in there tomorrow to get one of those compact softeners set up with a flush kit, and some of that fancy triple action descaler.

    Ill do another descaling with the proper stuff just to make sure ;)

    Hopefully I wont have such a shocking scale problem EVER again ;D

    Cheers

    Sam

  45. #45
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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by 1D2F23233B3D4E0 link=1252582960/43#43 date=1253175744
    Sweet. I just found out bombora is a 30s drive from my place in Newcastle, Ill be in there tomorrow to get one of those compact softeners set up with a flush kit, and some of that fancy triple action descaler.

    Ill do another descaling with the proper stuff just to make sure ;)

    Hopefully I wont have such a shocking scale problem EVER again *;D

    Cheers

    Sam
    Theyre wholesalers Sam and dont have a retail outlet.

    Many CS sponsors stock Bombora product...

  46. #46
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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    It appears they have one online (I wont post a link I know its against the rules - its on the bombora page though) and on the phone Bernard told me they would sell direct (though obviously not at wholesale prices) and to feel free to drop in and pick up what I needed. :)

  47. #47
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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    I was emboldened to open up mine.

    Its a year old and therefore due for a descale... not too bad. The soft aqua-blue gunk hadnt settled to hard stuff yet, but it still had etched away the chrome in the mushroom about as much as javabeens. Easily removable with a kitchen dish brush, however I cant clean the boiler like that, so Im up for a descale.

    Ive ordered that filter set through Chris for the VBMs unplumbed supply. We live where tap water tastes and smells like the local swamp, so my Brita filter will stay on my kitchen tap nevertheless!

  48. #48
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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Ive owned my Vibiemme for a bit over half a year now. Recently I noticed, that after pulling a shot, the brewing pressure gauge occasionally doesnt drop back to zero again. Lifting the lever on the grouphead slightly will usually cause the pressure to drop.

    As I was browsing the forum for an answer to this (I am not even sure if thats a new thing or if I just hadnt noticed it before), I came across this thread. All of a sudden ***scale*** seems to be the most obvious cause of my problem...

    Having seen all the nice :P pictures above, I am going to descale mine anyway, but Id appreciate if someone could either confirm my theory or suggest other causes/fixes for my stuck pressure gauge.

    Cheers,
    Norman

  49. #49
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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by 4C636C687E797F6C61646C0D0 link=1252582960/47#47 date=1253282396
    Ive owned my Vibiemme for a bit over half a year now. Recently I noticed, that after pulling a shot, the brewing pressure gauge occasionally doesnt drop back to zero again. Lifting the lever on the grouphead slightly will usually cause the pressure to drop.
    That is normal - at least to say it happens, is not on its own a sign of scale as it will happen even with a new machine.

    Releasing that pressure can lead to thermosyphon stall so it is best to ignore it.

  50. #50
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    Re: Scale in my VBM Super - have a look, ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by 0C232C283E393F2C21242C4D0 link=1252582960/47#47 date=1253282396
    but Id appreciate if someone could either confirm my theory or suggest other causes/fixes for my stuck pressure gauge.
    I have notice this on my Piccolo..... so it happens not on just Hx machines.... There is a thread somewhere discussing it.....
    Bottom line was " ignore it" .

    Also today removed the mushroom on my little VBM ..... purchased new Jan 19, 2009 and while not as bad as those decribed in this thread ...... the scale damage was there...... very annoying.

    What treatment would those in the know reccomend for treating a single boiler machine. .....
    IE decsale solution and multiple flushes ?????? Which solution can go thru a boiler and not taint it ???????

    cheers



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