Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Chemical Backflush: how many seconds?

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    33

    Chemical Backflush: how many seconds?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Rocket recommends backflushing for 15 seconds at a time, but other sources say no more than 5 otherwise you could damage the machine. Whos right?

  2. #2
    A_M
    A_M is offline
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,381

    Re: Chemical Backflush: how many seconds?

    Quote Originally Posted by 0E3D2C2F2D3C3A3D2B232D3A480 link=1253410252/0#0 date=1253410252
    Rocket recommends backflushing for 15 seconds at a time, but other sources say no more than 5 otherwise you could damage the machine. Whos right?
    I actually use a SB double floor basket or the rubber blind that comes with teh Sunbeam..

    WHY..

    1: I am LAZY ;D

    2: It Works :o


    A: If I use the bubber blind... I do not have to change PF baskets and the slight leakage means my PF and my group all get cleaned at the same time... In addition it bleeds off as the hole is small but means I do not fully stress the 3 way or the system..

    Thus I do it for about 10 sec and do it about 2 - 3 times....

    Outcome... One clean system.. And done in one hit ;)

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    1,077

    Re: Chemical Backflush: how many seconds?

    I tend to do it for about 6 or 7 i guess, i dont really time it, i lift the lever and keep the pump running until i hear the tone change and that it basically what happend when the coffee would start to pour anyway and i figure there is enough water in and around the group head and then push the lever back and it all flushed into the drip tray.

    I then do that until there is no soap comming out of the system.

    Mal

  4. #4
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496

    Re: Chemical Backflush: how many seconds?

    The Cafetto has full instructions on the label.

  5. #5
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    16,775

    Re: Chemical Backflush: how many seconds?

    Once the system gets up to maximum pressure, there is absolutely no reason or anything to gain by allowing the pump to keep running under those conditions.... Generally, I probably allow the pump to continue running for about 2 seconds at peak pressure.

    And as TG mentions, Cafetto have a set of user instructions on the package label.... ;)

    Mal.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    33

    Re: Chemical Backflush: how many seconds?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4964606C610D0 link=1253410252/4#4 date=1253435618
    And as TG mentions, Cafetto have a set of user instructions on the package label.... ;)

    Mal.
    Product plug noted, but with all due respect Im already using "Clean Machine" from Bombora. Next time I see Cafetto, Ill be sure to read the instructions.

    Until then, Im curious to know if I follow the manufacturers advice whether it could damage the machine.

    http://www.rocket-espresso.it/how-to/


  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    239

    Re: Chemical Backflush: how many seconds?

    My expobar office control has a self cleaning function. If you turn the machine on while holding the centre button down, it runs through 5 cycles. It keeps the pump running for about 3 seconds after full pressure is reached with the blind filter in place.

    I run 1 x 5 cycle with back flush powder and then 3 x 5 cycle with fresh water and it seems to do a good job.

    So even though your machine does not have an auto cleaning program, my point is that running it for a few seconds works fine so why run it any more.

  8. #8
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,286

    Re: Chemical Backflush: how many seconds?

    Heres what works for me.

    Put 1/4 to 1/2 tsp of cleaner in the blind filter and lock in the head.
    Run pump for 1 or 2 seconds after pressure is reached (maybe 5 or 6 seconds overall).
    Release pressure. (Turn pump off).
    Repeat 5 times.
    Empty blind filter, clean head, and then repeat without cleaner.
    They often recommend a sink shot for conditioning.

    I have found that too much cleaner (i.e. the full teaspoon often recommended) can strip the lubrication from the E61 lever system, and this requires disassembly and re-lubing to reduce friction.

    Greg

  9. #9
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: Chemical Backflush: how many seconds?

    Quote Originally Posted by 0B3E292B1B233E212D20284C0 link=1253410252/7#7 date=1253451028
    Put 1/2 tsp of cleaner in the blind filter and lock in the head.
    Run pump for 1 or 2 seconds after pressure is reached (maybe 5 or 6 seconds overall).
    Release pressure. (Turn pump off).
    Repeat 5 times.
    Empty blind filter, clean head, and then repeat without cleaner.
    They often recommend a sink shot for conditioning.

    Greg
    Go easy on the detergent Greg. Id suggest 1/4 tsp....;)

    2mcm

  10. #10
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,286

    Re: Chemical Backflush: how many seconds?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2E71697F747F737A7A7979717D721C0 link=1253410252/8#8 date=1253451113
    Go easy on the detergent Greg. Id suggest 1/4 tsp....

    2mcm
    Yup--original modified.

    Greg

    And remember to clean the basket and portafilter. I do mine every shot.

  11. #11
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496

    Re: Chemical Backflush: how many seconds?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1122333032232522343C3225570 link=1253410252/5#5 date=1253449829
    Im already using "Clean Machine" from Bombora.
    What? No instructions on the container?

  12. #12
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    4,082

    Re: Chemical Backflush: how many seconds?

    Quote Originally Posted by 24110604340C110E020F07630 link=1253410252/7#7 date=1253451028
    Run pump for 1 or 2 seconds after pressure is reached (maybe 5 or 6 seconds overall).
    Release pressure. (Turn pump off).
    Repeat 5 times.
    After the first 5 secs I wait for about 15 seconds before starting the pump again.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    33

    Re: Chemical Backflush: how many seconds?

    Once again, Rocket recommends 15 seconds, but the instructions that come with the cleaner say this:

    1/4 teaspoon of Clean Machine powder, activate brew button for 2 seconds and turn off for 3 seconds. Repeat, etc.

    Warning: "Ensure you dont leave your brew button on for more than 2 seconds - you will overwork the pump."

    So whos right here?


  14. #14
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    4,082

    Re: Chemical Backflush: how many seconds?

    FT: follow the instructions on the product.

    I dont RUN my pump for 15 seconds, I run it for 5 then leave it for 15 before running the second cycle.

    Ill let others more familiar with vibe pump operation comment on the two second warning.

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    87

    Re: Chemical Backflush: how many seconds?

    I was always told with using blind filters on vibe pumps that you shouldnt go more than a few seconds past group pressurisation in order to protect the pump.

    Whether thats right or wrong, I cant answer, but its something Ive always gone by to err on the side of caution.

    The bottom line though is that the point of the exercise is to build up enough pressure in the group that when you flick off the lever it dumps the water, detergent, and coffee grime back through the relief valve and into the tray with a reasonable amount of force. As noted above, you can easily tell when the pressures built up by the change in sound. With a shallow blind filter on the Giotto (and as with most/all prosumer machines) this shouldnt take more than 5-6 secs to pressurise. Anything beyond that, for my thinking, does little else for the process.

  16. #16
    A_M
    A_M is offline
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,381

    Re: Chemical Backflush: how many seconds?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6341464645494E457F6649454E44200 link=1253410252/14#14 date=1253495902
    I was always told with using blind filters on vibe pumps that you shouldnt go more than a few seconds past group pressurisation in order to protect the pump.

    Whether thats right or wrong, I cant answer, but its something Ive always gone by to err on the side of caution.

    The bottom line though is that the point of the exercise is to build up enough pressure in the group that when you flick off the lever it dumps the water, detergent, and coffee grime back through the relief valve and into the tray with a reasonable amount of force. As noted above, you can easily tell when the pressures built up by the change in sound. With a shallow blind filter on the Giotto (and as with most/all prosumer machines) this shouldnt take more than 5-6 secs to pressurise. Anything beyond that, for my thinking, does little else for the process.
    I agree with teh above comments... Thus if you re read my post... I do not use a full blind filter...

    I use the useless double walled SB baskets as it also allows me to clean the group at the same time and manages any excessive pressure.. The plus is if you can get teh SB rubber blind, as when you use that in ya normal PF it also allows that to be cleaned...

    AM

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    264

    Re: Chemical Backflush: how many seconds?

    Common sense dictates that once the blind filter has been pressurised , 1 or 2 seconds beyond that is achieving nothing.
    What you can do is after pressurising blind filter with cleaning agent present , turn the machine off , without dumping and allow to sit for a few minutes , then pressure and dump ..... followed by two or 3 pressure and dump flushes.....

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    979

    Re: Chemical Backflush: how many seconds?

    On a machine like a silvia if your unfamilier just watch the opv tube in the tank. When water starts running back into the tank then you have enough prussure. As others have said you can tell by the sound.

    I normally do this a few times then leave it all to soak in the group head for a couple of minutes before coming back to rinse. I pulled apart the group a little while ago and I was pleased to see the effectiveness of this technique at cleaning.


  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    33

    Re: Chemical Backflush: how many seconds?

    Interesting to see such a complete lack of faith in Rockets documentation. Speaking of which, I wonder how many customers are cleaning their machines with "head shampoo?"

  20. #20
    brett230873
    Guest

    Re: Chemical Backflush: how many seconds?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4774656664757374626A6473010 link=1253410252/18#18 date=1253505045
    Speaking of which, I wonder how many customers are cleaning their machines with "head shampoo?"
    I had a laugh.... I want to see the advertisment for that! "Your cleaning regime wont hippen overnight, but it will hippen" (Rachael Hunter on espresso group head cleanliness).

  21. #21
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    5,113

    Re: Chemical Backflush: how many seconds?

    I stop the vibe pump at about 5 to 8 seconds
    I listen to the strain sound of the vibe motor

    I then position the handle in the centre "neutral"
    Stopping the vibe pump but not letting the water flush
    I leave it for about 30 seconds and then repeat the procedure with several (approx 10) flushes to remove the gunk

    I use Puly Caff Plus back flush powder and I dont know if it is this brand but I have found that my lever does not squeak after an intensive back flush

    I also remove the filter and soak after the back-flush procedure
    When cleaning the Baskets, Filters and Group Handles I soak them for 30+ minutes and rinse

    KK



Similar Threads

  1. Chemical contaminants in coffee
    By herbie in forum General Coffee Related...
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11th December 2011, 06:17 PM
  2. DeWalt Heat Gun Seconds $66
    By tonee in forum Home Roasting - Tips, Tricks, Ideas
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 1st September 2011, 01:38 AM
  3. extraction in 25 seconds
    By JohnA in forum General Coffee Related...
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 23rd November 2010, 10:51 AM
  4. $46m of drug chemical found in coffee
    By Koffee_Kosmo in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 19th August 2010, 02:42 PM
  5. Cleaning Options other than chemical?
    By slowcoffee in forum Brewing Equipment (non-machine specific)
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11th September 2008, 10:37 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •