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Thread: A sad Giotto story

  1. #1
    TC
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    A sad Giotto story

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I had a bloke come to see me this afternoon, and in his car, a 2004 Giotto Premium. It was the earliest build- sort of a hybrid Giotto classic/premium.

    It was purchased on the bay of evil for a gorilla- supposedly operating and in good condition. Who knows, perhaps some CSers also tried to snag it?

    Diagnosis:
    Severe bends in chassis, dropped from a big height, significant scale and inoperative- but heating. At the very least a pump solenoid or control board and wiring loom replacement and who knows what more.

    Repairs on the machine were impossible to quote but could well have amounted to many hundreds of dollars for a machine which had clearly suffered years of abuse and would never look any better than rough.

    The buyer has decided to attempt to return the machine or claim a PayPal refund...

    Caveat emptor all. This is the least risky place to purchase a pre-loved machine. What we define as "good condition" is very much open to interpretation elsewhere....

    Chris

  2. #2
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    Re: A sad Giotto story

    So true chris, happens all the time, its hard getting evil bay refunds too, its happened to me twice, i know i shouldve learned the first time! I had a laugh

    Not coffee gear, one was a 240v generator 2 KVA and the other was some audio gear, not electronics though, i eventually got the refund for the generator, had to pay for the return though.......2kva gene to melb from brissie! $$$$$ , never heard a peep for the audio stuff, money in the toilet....... im very very careful about buying from there now, i think almost everyone has a story to tell about evil bay :-[

  3. #3
    htb
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    Re: A sad Giotto story

    Did he say where it was from or how much?
    I was bidding on one a while ago and it sold very cheap but I was put off by the description.

  4. #4
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    Re: A sad Giotto story

    Never a nice thing to hear about.

    Trumped only by the feeling of having it happen to you *:(

    Ive only bought bits and pieces from eBay over the years and have been extremely fortunate when you hear of some of the horror stories of others.


    Caff.

  5. #5
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    Re: A sad Giotto story

    I agree, theres an unsurpassed sense of integrity within the confines of the snob community.... but any experienced ebayer knows... you get what you pay for.

    What is it with Giottos and ebay? Espresso machine envy must drive poor decision making. I almost got burnt by a fraudster in the UK selling me a cheap Giotto who identity stole a reputable Aussie retailers e-store.

    I ended up buying my machine new from a snob sponsor.

    But having said that, "One swallow does not make a summer"... and Ive had some great transactions in respect of add on components and grinders.

    Merr1







  6. #6
    A_M
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    Re: A sad Giotto story

    Quote Originally Posted by 16232E291D012D24242727420 link=1254912724/0#0 date=1254912724
    I had a bloke come to see me this afternoon, and in his car, a 2004 Giotto Premium. It was the earliest build- sort of a hybrid Giotto classic/premium.

    It was purchased on the bay of evil for a gorilla- supposedly operating and in good condition. Who knows, perhaps some CSers also tried to snag it?

    Diagnosis:
    Severe bends in chassis, dropped from a big height, significant scale and inoperative- but heating. At the very least a pump solenoid or control board and wiring loom replacement and who knows what more.

    Repairs on the machine were impossible to quote but could well have amounted to many hundreds of dollars for a machine which had clearly suffered years of abuse and would never look any better than rough.

    The buyer has decided to attempt to return the machine or claim a PayPal refund...

    Caveat emptor all. This is the least risky place to purchase a pre-loved machine. What we define as "good condition" is very much open to interpretation elsewhere....

    Chris
    I also got burnt once on a Lever...

    The hard part was getting a Supplier in Australia to put their comments on paper to support my claim..

    In the end I had to ask for a Detailed Quote and state that is was an insurance claim *(A bit of a story had to be told).

    I then had to pay $75 for the Quote as I had no intention of getting it fixed and the Quote stated that the unit was not able to be repaired due to any number of issues... *The good thing was that I had indicated the use of some terms that the Seller had used - Recently Serviced, Good condition, Working etc etc etc and this was clearly refuted in teh Quote.

    The other fact was that it was posted... Had I picked up then E-bay wipes its hands as you have the option to inspect and not take the item if not as described.. The is fully reasonable in my opinion and in the eyes of the LAW.

    I guess that I am alluding to is that the purchaser may be seeking a formal document from Talk Coffee in this instance ( Great to see sponsors etc getting involved - They may not purchase, but it is good PR and I am sure other will take TC and others sponsors commitment on-board) ... *They will also need to archive and print out all the E-Bay emails and track their process in accordance with the rules and regs, if E-Bay is to come to the party..

    And yes; *I got my $785 back, less the Quote... *But have been very careful ever since...

    The actions of a few, spoil it for the many with good intentions.. *

    It comes back to common law and the intent of the contract - Valuable Consideration.. *Thus under the Elements of TORT the issues of *deceit / fraud etc come into play..

    However, E-bay can not be held responsible for all and the old saying of let the buyer be ware still holds true..

    What is it with Giottos and ebay
    It is not the Giottos or any other item NOR is it E-bay...

    It is a culture of many people to day and the drive to make money with out respect for others..

    SELFISHNESS and Narrow-minded - Narcissism

    Thus one of the reasons I like teh Majority of CSs - We try to consider others and we even use e-bay to buy and sell... But we do it with Integrity..

  7. #7
    Caffeine Junky
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    Re: A sad Giotto story

    I had a fellow CS member come to my house to buy my EM6910 which had been working perfectly for me ever since I acquired it from another CSer.

    I suggested we fire it up so I could give him some tips on using it, which he eagerly agreed to. Wouldnt you know, the darn thing wouldnt pump out any water.

    I was relieved it happened then, not after he took it home (of course I would have taken it back). I felt horrible but despite the incident there was still much trust and I ended up selling him my Mokita Combi instead! If it were an ebay transaction Iím sure he would have walked away immediately, but being part of a community like this one makes all the difference.

    For the record Iíve now repaired the SB (~$130) but am apprehensive about selling it to anyone (on CS or evil bay) even though the repairer has given it a 3 month warranty. Itís sitting in the shed as a spare for when the Giotto goes in for itís next service. May also be handy for holidays too.

  8. #8
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    Re: A sad Giotto story

    Quote Originally Posted by 64656F7C62677D0E0 link=1254912724/6#6 date=1254965824
    I had a fellow CS member come to my house to buy my EM6910 which had been working perfectly for me ever since I acquired it from another CSer.

    I suggested we fire it up so I could give him some tips on using it, which he eagerly agreed to. *Wouldnt you know, the darn thing wouldnt pump out any water.

    I was relieved it happened then, not after he took it home (of course I would have taken it back). *I felt horrible but despite the incident there was still much trust and I ended up selling him my Mokita Combi instead! *If it were an ebay transaction Iím sure he would have walked away immediately, but being part of a community like this one makes all the difference. *

    For the record Iíve now repaired the SB (~$130) but am apprehensive about selling it to anyone (on CS or evil bay) even though the repairer has given it a 3 month warranty. *Itís sitting in the shed as a spare for when the Giotto goes in for itís next service. *May also be handy for holidays too.

    Sort of the same story
    After i stripped down my giotto, gave it a thorough clean, changed the electronic board and a few other parts, i was going to sell it. You could say good as new, however like you, with a 5 year old machine, you just never know.
    So i figured, id keep it. When i get a new machine, i will keep it as a spare, or even pull it out when we have big parties and 2 machines going.

    Personally i would not purchase a coffee machine from e-bay, nor would i purchase a new one on-line to try save a buck

  9. #9
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    Re: A sad Giotto story

    Quote Originally Posted by 654047416E2F0 link=1254912724/7#7 date=1254970281
    Personally i would not purchase a coffee machine from e-bay, nor would i purchase a new one on-line to try save a buck
    Totally agree with this, when spending a considerable some on a high end machine it makes no sense to cut corners trying to save money, the risk is just too great. Better to deal with a sponsor or right here on CS if purchasing 2nd hand.

    Mal

  10. #10
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    Re: A sad Giotto story

    doesnt sound good!

    Just to make up for all the negative feedback on ebay - Ive bought 5 machines off ebay, and all been as expected. I think you have to ask lots of questions, look close at photos, and inspect if possible. And avoid them no matter how much a bargain when you have any uncertainty. I think Ebay like anywhere has its risks, but also some great buys and machines you may not be able to find easily elsewhere.

  11. #11
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    Re: A sad Giotto story

    Check out sponsor omaras for used machines.



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