Which machine did you end up buying?
An observation I made recently when in the market for a new E61 machine is that it seems most in the $2000 to $2500 category exhibit quite a bit of flex of the group head in relation to the body of the unit.
This was reinforced on Friday when I was able to inspect a line up of about 6 better known brands, all exhibited this characteristic.
This may or may not be a potential problem but it certainly influenced my final decision.
Any thoughts about the subject? :-/
Which machine did you end up buying?
Ive never noticed it on my Expobar.
So I just went and had a look.
A fair amount of downward pressure on the handle when locked in can induce a very small amount of flex.
Sideways pressure, when locking in, I cant say; I think the whole machine moves first.
Have you tried the Expobar?
Why would anyone exert downward pressure?
Bezzera Galatea Domus.Originally Posted by 2F22353D2820470 link=1260663210/1#1 date=1260663369
I,m talking about lateral/sideways pressure TG, when locking the PF in, the movement is quite noticeable, didnt check for vertical flex, as you say who would do it.Originally Posted by 774B564D474651444C47230 link=1260663210/2#2 date=1260666214
The Minore III was on my short list but for a number of reasons settled on the Bezzera. :)
Yeah they look pretty solid.Originally Posted by 49757C6471100 link=1260663210/3#3 date=1260666334
As I said, not noticeable on my Expobar.Originally Posted by 7E424B5346270 link=1260663210/4#4 date=1260666657
Ive never noticed what you are talking about - probably because I bought the Bezzera too! It is a tank.
Same as TG....
The DJE moves on the bench before any flex can be observed (and Im not going to hang on to her with one hand while I lock the GH in with the other, either ;))
i have seen this flex on a maver makin.
The brewhead is mounted to the face panel with two bolts. If the face panel flexes when you are just playing with the machines on a display counter then it is probably from using more force than is necessary to seal the PF. In my experience, it takes FAR less force to get the seal using my VBM DS than it did with Silvia.
Depending on the amount of space inside, it would be an easy matter to reinforce the mounting from behind with two strips of flat or angle steel stock.
I can report that the Elektra SA doesnt flex in this manner.
I dont have e61 but i get a bit of flex in the group handle (handle)
if i give it a good pull i can see some flex, its more the plastic end not the group head but.
your not seeing this are you?
i would be thinking new group seal needed if you need to yank this hard....
I find it difficult to believe no one else has observed this! excess force is definitely not needed, normal locking pressure will do it.
One of the machines I had on my short list and bypassed it because of this flex was the Isomac Tea.
Next time Im in Adelaide will visit the same store, check all of the machines again and post a list of my observations.
When Im paying $2000 + for a machine I wouldnt expect to have to make modifications of this nature.Originally Posted by 16252A203D1B036A440 link=1260663210/10#10 date=1260738961
Perhaps Im creating a storm in a tea cup and the flex is of no consequence, however Id still like an informed explanation.
I have a Isomac Tea and have no flexing under normal use,There is some if you lay in to it but that was the same as with my VBM. Domabar.
With the Tea you dont need use a lot of presser to lock the group handle and I have not had it blow off yet ;).
Yes Randy, agree with you on that one.Originally Posted by 72414E44597F670E200 link=1260663210/10#10 date=1260738961
I can lock-in the Group Handle of my Diadema Junior Extra with just two fingers. No need for gut busting force which must also accelerate wear and tear too.... :(
Evening Mal, Im not talking about anything approaching (gut busting force) I realise the handles lock in with little effort but the fact of the matter is that the group heads on a lot of these machines do flex, not looking for an argument or trying to stir, simply seeking an explanation. :)Originally Posted by 567B7F737E120 link=1260663210/15#15 date=1260773245
Neither am I mate but I have noticed that some people really do put their back into it. My old Bezz is pretty easy to lock-in as well so I cant help but make the observation.... ;)Originally Posted by 1F232A3227460 link=1260663210/16#16 date=1260773774
Not me. :)Originally Posted by 270A0E020F630 link=1260663210/17#17 date=1260775212
VDS flexes very easily compared to the Galatea. course, this depends on lugs, group handle and strength of forearms.
Pretty sure Ive worked out whats happening.
Had the cover of mine today and as RandyG said the E61 head is secured to the machine frame/front plate with 2 x 12 mm studs, if the nuts are tightened securely on the studs the head cannot move its impossible, however if the frame of the machine is fabricated from relatively light weight steel the front mounting plate can flex and this is what I am seeing.
So what happens is every time the plate flexes the 2 copper tubes connecting the boiler to the group head also flex, as do any other copper tubes connecting to the front plate i.e. steam/hot water gauges etc though to a lesser degree because they tend to be mounted toward the edges of the plate and would not be affected to the same degree.
So in a nutshell machines exhibiting this characteristic have a light weight frame/front plate, in fact too light to do the job it is intended to do.
There is no doubt in my mind its a weak point, weak enough to eventually lead to the pipes to the GH cracking? maybe, maybe not, only time will tell. :) *
I have a Tea and I have noticed this flex, but it is only slight and only when I was stupidly trying to jam in an overfilled handle.. Keep in mind copper is pretty soft and copper water pipes get water hammer all day long... i doubt the few millimetres of flex would cause a problem - particularly if you are easy on it.