Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: E61 Group Head flex?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,885

    E61 Group Head flex?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    An observation I made recently when in the market for a new E61 machine is that it seems most in the $2000 to $2500 category exhibit quite a bit of flex of the group head in relation to the body of the unit.
    This was reinforced on Friday when I was able to inspect a line up of about 6 better known brands, all exhibited this characteristic.
    This may or may not be a potential problem but it certainly influenced my final decision.
    Any thoughts about the subject? :-/












    4

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SYD
    Posts
    566

    Re: E61 Group Head flex?

    Which machine did you end up buying?

  3. #3
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496

    Re: E61 Group Head flex?

    Ive never noticed it on my Expobar.
    So I just went and had a look.
    A fair amount of downward pressure on the handle when locked in can induce a very small amount of flex.

    Sideways pressure, when locking in, I cant say; I think the whole machine moves first.

    Have you tried the Expobar?
    Why would anyone exert downward pressure?

  4. #4
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,885

    Re: E61 Group Head flex?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2F22353D2820470 link=1260663210/1#1 date=1260663369
    Which machine did you end up buying?
    Bezzera Galatea Domus.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,885

    Re: E61 Group Head flex?

    Quote Originally Posted by 774B564D474651444C47230 link=1260663210/2#2 date=1260666214
    Ive never noticed it on my Expobar.
    So I just went and had a look.
    A fair amount of downward pressure on the handle when locked in can induce a very small amount of flex.

    Sideways pressure, when locking in, I cant say; I think the whole machine moves first.

    Have you tried the Expobar?
    Why would anyone exert downward pressure?
    I,m talking about lateral/sideways pressure TG, when locking the PF in, the movement is quite noticeable, didnt check for vertical flex, as you say who would do it.
    The Minore III was on my short list but for a number of reasons settled on the Bezzera. :)

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SYD
    Posts
    566

    Re: E61 Group Head flex?

    Quote Originally Posted by 49757C6471100 link=1260663210/3#3 date=1260666334
    Quote Originally Posted by 2F22353D2820470 link=1260663210/1#1 date=1260663369
    Which machine did you end up buying?
    Bezzera Galatea Domus.
    Yeah they look pretty solid.

  7. #7
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496

    Re: E61 Group Head flex?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7E424B5346270 link=1260663210/4#4 date=1260666657
    I,m talking about lateral/sideways pressure TG, when locking the group handle in, the movement is quite noticeable
    As I said, not noticeable on my Expobar.

  8. #8
    senior member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    150

    Re: E61 Group Head flex?

    Ive never noticed what you are talking about - probably because I bought the Bezzera too! It is a tank.

    CTGTC 8-)


  9. #9
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    16,865

    Re: E61 Group Head flex?

    Same as TG....

    The DJE moves on the bench before any flex can be observed (and Im not going to hang on to her with one hand while I lock the GH in with the other, either ;))

    Mal.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    790

    Re: E61 Group Head flex?

    i have seen this flex on a maver makin.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    554

    Re: E61 Group Head flex?

    The brewhead is mounted to the face panel with two bolts. If the face panel flexes when you are just playing with the machines on a display counter then it is probably from using more force than is necessary to seal the PF. In my experience, it takes FAR less force to get the seal using my VBM DS than it did with Silvia.

    Depending on the amount of space inside, it would be an easy matter to reinforce the mounting from behind with two strips of flat or angle steel stock.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SYD
    Posts
    566

    Re: E61 Group Head flex?

    I can report that the Elektra SA doesnt flex in this manner.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,520

    Re: E61 Group Head flex?

    I dont have e61 but i get a bit of flex in the group handle (handle)

    if i give it a good pull i can see some flex, its more the plastic end not the group head but.

    your not seeing this are you?

    i would be thinking new group seal needed if you need to yank this hard....

  14. #14
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,885

    Re: E61 Group Head flex?

    I find it difficult to believe no one else has observed this! excess force is definitely not needed, normal locking pressure will do it.
    One of the machines I had on my short list and bypassed it because of this flex was the Isomac Tea.
    Next time Im in Adelaide will visit the same store, check all of the machines again and post a list of my observations.
    Quote Originally Posted by 16252A203D1B036A440 link=1260663210/10#10 date=1260738961
    Depending on the amount of space inside, it would be an easy matter to reinforce the mounting from behind with two strips of flat or angle steel stock.
    When Im paying $2000 + for a machine I wouldnt expect to have to make modifications of this nature.
    Perhaps Im creating a storm in a tea cup and the flex is of no consequence, however Id still like an informed explanation.

  15. #15
    Gra
    Gra is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    610

    Re: E61 Group Head flex?

    I have a Isomac Tea and have no flexing under normal use,There is some if you lay in to it but that was the same as with my VBM. Domabar.

    With the Tea you dont need use a lot of presser to lock the group handle and I have not had it blow off yet ;).

    Cheers Gra.

  16. #16
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    16,865

    Re: E61 Group Head flex?

    Quote Originally Posted by 72414E44597F670E200 link=1260663210/10#10 date=1260738961
    In my experience, it takes FAR less force to get the seal using my VBM DS than it did with Silvia.
    Yes Randy, agree with you on that one.

    I can lock-in the Group Handle of my Diadema Junior Extra with just two fingers. No need for gut busting force which must also accelerate wear and tear too.... :(

    Mal.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,885

    Re: E61 Group Head flex?

    Quote Originally Posted by 567B7F737E120 link=1260663210/15#15 date=1260773245
    No need for gut busting force
    Evening Mal, Im not talking about anything approaching (gut busting force) I realise the handles lock in with little effort but the fact of the matter is that the group heads on a lot of these machines do flex, not looking for an argument or trying to stir, simply seeking an explanation. :)

  18. #18
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    16,865

    Re: E61 Group Head flex?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1F232A3227460 link=1260663210/16#16 date=1260773774
    not looking for an argument or trying to stir, simply seeking an explanation. :) *
    Neither am I mate but I have noticed that some people really do put their back into it. My old Bezz is pretty easy to lock-in as well so I cant help but make the observation.... ;)

    Mal.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,885

    Re: E61 Group Head flex?

    Quote Originally Posted by 270A0E020F630 link=1260663210/17#17 date=1260775212
    some people really do put their back into it
    Not me. :)

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    723

    Re: E61 Group Head flex?

    VDS flexes very easily compared to the Galatea. course, this depends on lugs, group handle and strength of forearms.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,885

    Re: E61 Group Head flex?

    Pretty sure Ive worked out whats happening.
    Had the cover of mine today and as RandyG said the E61 head is secured to the machine frame/front plate with 2 x 12 mm studs, if the nuts are tightened securely on the studs the head cannot move its impossible, however if the frame of the machine is fabricated from relatively light weight steel the front mounting plate can flex and this is what I am seeing.
    So what happens is every time the plate flexes the 2 copper tubes connecting the boiler to the group head also flex, as do any other copper tubes connecting to the front plate i.e. steam/hot water gauges etc though to a lesser degree because they tend to be mounted toward the edges of the plate and would not be affected to the same degree.
    So in a nutshell machines exhibiting this characteristic have a light weight frame/front plate, in fact too light to do the job it is intended to do.
    There is no doubt in my mind its a weak point, weak enough to eventually lead to the pipes to the GH cracking? maybe, maybe not, only time will tell. :) *

  22. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    67

    Re: E61 Group Head flex?

    I have a Tea and I have noticed this flex, but it is only slight and only when I was stupidly trying to jam in an overfilled handle.. Keep in mind copper is pretty soft and copper water pipes get water hammer all day long... i doubt the few millimetres of flex would cause a problem - particularly if you are easy on it.



Similar Threads

  1. Dirty group head
    By Steffen in forum Brewing Equipment - Midrange ($500-$1500)
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 25th April 2011, 04:49 PM
  2. Group head Q?
    By liamo in forum Brewing Equipment - Pointy End ($1500-$3000)
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 25th December 2009, 07:00 PM
  3. E-61 vs E-64 group head
    By Vicomte in forum Brewing Equipment (non-machine specific)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 1st April 2009, 10:22 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •