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Thread: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

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    question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I noted there are GPP and Giotto premium model. Can anyone tell me difference between those two model? I am up-grading from Silvia to one of Giottos soon.

    Jon

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    One is plumbed version the other isnt. I forget which is which

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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    No, the Premium is the predecessor of the GPP (Premium Plus). The GPP was first released in 2008 and is a significant upgrade to the Giotto Premium.
    Check this discussion thread

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1218965225

    You are thinking of the Giotto Professional andreas, which is a plumbed in version of the GPP with extras

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Quote Originally Posted by 262C392E2E213533400 link=1261350235/2#2 date=1261355173
    No, the Premium is the predecessor of the GPP (Premium Plus). The GPP was first released in 2008 and is a significant upgrade to the Giotto Premium.
    Check this discussion thread

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1218965225

    You are thinking of the Giotto Professional andreas, which is a plumbed in version of the GPP with extras
    Correct.

    old model = ECM Giotto Premium
    current model = Rocket Giotto Premium Plus

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    I read all the post about GPP but I wonder what was significant change from Giotto Premium to Premiun Plus. *

    As a very novice with Giotto i see small difference ( $250 ) in price. *Of couse I will try to get GPP as all praise about the GPP ( not GP ). * :)

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    FWIW, I have gone from a ECM Giotto Premium to the Rocket Giotto Premium Plus and can say that I have noticed significant functional and performance improvements, particularly around steam pressure and general design enhancements.

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    When I tried with my friends GP I noticed the pressure goen down below 0.5 quite quickly for about 600ml of milk in 1L jug. Is it similar with GPP?

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Quote Originally Posted by 404245467C4F4C554651230 link=1261350236/6#6 date=1261357649
    When I tried with my friends GP I noticed the pressure goen down below 0.5 quite quickly for about 600ml of milk in 1L jug. *Is it similar with GPP?
    No, but having said that, I do not remember my GP going down that low either... :-/

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Quote Originally Posted by 474542417B484B524156240 link=1261350236/6#6 date=1261357649
    When I tried with my friends GP I noticed the pressure goen down below 0.5 quite quickly for about 600ml of milk in 1L jug. *Is it similar with GPP?
    Yes- you will probably see 0.5 bar in a GPP but it will hold pressure for quite some time at that point. Our souped up GPs do a tad better than that *8-)

    The available steam in a GPP is more than adequate to do a 600-900 ml jug of milk and recovery is rapid.

    Chris

    Chris

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Is only difference B/W Premium and Giotto Premium Plus the pressure for milk?

    i thought there should be some fundamental difference for brewing or something. I tried to goole or search but there is not much info.

    Jon

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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5A585F5C6655564F5C4B390 link=1261350236/9#9 date=1261359632
    Is only difference B/W Premium and Giotto Premium Plus the pressure for milk?
    Go to the link in my reply above - in particular the link in the first post: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1163933911/0#1

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4D475245454A5E582B0 link=1261350236/10#10 date=1261360050
    Quote Originally Posted by 5A585F5C6655564F5C4B390 link=1261350236/9#9 date=1261359632
    Is only difference B/W Premium and Giotto Premium Plus the pressure for milk?
    Go to the link in my reply above - in particular the link in the first post: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1163933911/0#1
    The other difference is that all Giotto Premiums are now pre-loved as the GPP has been available for 18 months now...I have also seen some really sad pre-abused ones ::)

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    thanks. *I read it.
    Now hunting for GPP!!!
    or even good priced GP? ;D

    Grinder - minimal? Any opinion?
    Is Rocky enough?

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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Rocky is enough. Did you see this?

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1260844586

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Is there anyone who can do thermostability modyfication in Sydney if I buy Giotto premiun?

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Hi Cafe Lover,

    We do that upgrade,

    charlie

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Quote Originally Posted by 424047447E4D4E574453210 link=1261350236/14#14 date=1261363578
    Is there anyone who can do thermostability modyfication in Sydney if I buy Giotto premiun?
    Depending on the state of the Premium, a thermostability upgrade may not be possible or even worthwhile. ;)


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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5F494C4C5D5F535A5A59593C0 link=1261350236/16#16 date=1261437882
    Depending on the state of the Premium, a thermostability upgrade may not be possible or even worthwhile. ;)
    It is 18m old but never been used I heard. *I checked and works well. I found the steam was just not enough for about 700ml. *I guess it might be the machine problem.

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    What are best features of results of thermostability modyfication ?

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Quote Originally Posted by 717374774D7E7D647760120 link=1261350236/18#18 date=1261461833
    What are best features of results of thermostability modyfication ?
    Plenty of posts and threads on this ...do a search ^^^^^ over the last year or forever on the term giotto thermostability

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    thanks. I am doing it right now.
    And Wow and great and Wow again.
    I think I need a cup right now. - Headache :-/

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    How are you going on your choice?

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    does anyone know if the ECM giotto uses alot of electricity? Sometimes i leave it on for half the day and its not in use. I turn it on, have one, leave it on just in case i want another later...

    wondering if it eats electricity like crazy?

    thanks in advanced.

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4C40597E425348554842210 link=1261350236/22#22 date=1263368689
    does anyone know if the ECM giotto uses alot of electricity? Sometimes i leave it on for half the day and its not in use. I turn it on, have one, leave it on just in case i want another later...

    wondering if it eats electricity like crazy?

    thanks in advanced.
    Why Max? Did you notice a change in your electricity accounts? :-?

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Quote Originally Posted by 515D44635F4E5548555F3C0 link=1261350236/22#22 date=1263368689
    does anyone know if the ECM giotto uses alot of electricity?
    Also may depend on what you call "alot of electricity". Compared to a fridge, probably. Compared to a pool pump running all day, probably not...

    If you find a way to quantify it and provide some comparisons, let us know. There would be a few interested people out there I am sure. We would then need to calculate the amount of power needed to heat the unit and boiler up from scratch to full temp, then compare that with the amount used if just left on! I can feel another can of worms opening... :-/

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    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Quote Originally Posted by 0110070F03010A0B0C07620 link=1261350236/24#24 date=1263372795
    If you find a way to quantify it and provide some comparisons, let us know. *There would be a few interested people out there I am sure. *We would then need to calculate the amount of power needed to heat the unit and boiler up from scratch to full temp, then compare that with the amount used if just left on! *I can feel another can of worms opening... *
    This has been done before and, IIRC, the result is that idling consumption is about 100 watts per hour. After the machine is hot and the temperature has stabilised (say 45 minutes to an hour) divide the on time of an on-off cycle by the time for the whole cycle and multiply by the wattage of the machine.

    Im sure a search will reveal previous measurements. I know there are some threads on insulating boilers that contain numbers--I dont know if the Giotto is there, but I doubt if it is much different from other similar HX machines.

    Greg

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    I have an energy meter which Ill hook up to my GPP and will let you know. Energy consumption will vary depending on when first starting up to idling away once warmed up which I guess you would be interested in. Ambient temp will also affect the level of energy consumed.

    Dex

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Some quick measurements from my GPP:

    Boiler on 1225 watts
    Idling, no boiler 2.2 watts
    pump on 56 watts

    Idling for 1 hour after warming up = 0.136kW/h
    which is equal to 3.264kW/h per day
    at 22 cents per kW/h the machine costs 3 cents per hour to run (idling) or 71 cents per day or $278 per year

    Ambient room temp during testing was 25.4 c

    Dex

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Great work Dex - very interesting. *We need to think about global warming 8-)

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    How many kg of CO2 per year???

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Using dexs info and this website http://www.greenaccountancy.com/impacts/energy

    It is roughly 1.4kg of CO2 per day

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Ill plant an extra tree to get my coffee carbon neutral ;D

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5E6F7B62773A3E3A0E0 link=1261350236/31#31 date=1264393388
    Ill plant an extra tree to get my coffee carbon neutral *;D
    Ive got two coffee trees; does that count?

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    I dont think we should be moving to carbon neutral but carbon negative, because we have years of carbon emissions that need to be counter acted.

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Ill plant one tree and run my machine for only 30 minutes before each morning fix, then switch it off - should make my coffee brewing be carbon negative. Now I need to off-set the roasting .. ahhh....

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    In the end I bought GP 2007 model but sold in 2008. I found the pressure went down to about 0.5 but it recovered quite quickly. The coffee I found it starts a little slow initially at around 8-10 sec but the taste in the end was great. I started enjoying black coffee. Ill probably work down to expresso slowly.

    I am still thinking whether I need to modify GP.

  37. #37
    kbc
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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    My 2007 ECM Giotto holds pressure when steaming without any problems.

    I am considering a talk Coffee thermostability mod in the near future but still doing some research.


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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    I think I have early Rocket one after they took over from ECM. It has batch number start with 2007 but was sold in 2008 - I was told. It has Rocket Expressor Giotto batch. I think they are sme machine anyway.

    It holds pressure ok till the end of steaming but the meter showes just above 0.5 when I steam.

    Should I be worried?

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6253475E4B060206320 link=1261350236/34#34 date=1264406094
    Now I need to off-set the roasting .. ahhh....
    that could take a few trees! ;D

    Quote Originally Posted by 515354576D5E5D445740320 link=1261350236/37#37 date=1264552033
    It holds pressure ok till the end of steaming but the meter showes just above 0.5 when I steam.

    Should I be worried?
    Mine does that at the end of a 1 lt jug, so as long as it gets to the right temp without stalling, shouldnt be a problem, having said that, i just did another descale and my steam power has increased, so im a happy chappy!

  40. #40
    kbc
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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    I descaled when last week so this may have also helped with my steaming pressure.



  41. #41
    kbc
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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Hi again all,

    My boiler switchs on for about 10 seconds every 70 seconds.

    ie - Pressure drops to 1.1 bar, boiler on for 10 seconds, Pressure gets to about 1.22 bar, pressure drops to 1.1 bar in 60 seconds then repeats. *

    Does this sound the same as others?

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    i suppose it also depends on the climate you live in/insulated boiler or not and pressurestat settings for on and off times, but my on off time did slightly improve when i stacked 18 cups on the cup warmer, better heat retention i suppose.

    My Pressure gets to *about 1.2 off and 1.05 on after an adjustment, when i first got the GPP it was 1.3 and 1.1, i found my shots a little bitter, now they are sweet ;)

    cheers
    warren



  43. #43
    kbc
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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Thanks, Im going to insulate my boiler soon. This should help.

    How did you adjust/reduce your pressure range? Sounds good.


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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Ill let a sponsor answer that one, i believe it can void ya warranty? i did it cause i didnt wanna send it to gold coast to get fixed up ;)

  45. #45
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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    If its an ECM Giotto than I assume its past its warranty anyway.

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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Quote Originally Posted by 47464C5F41445E2D0 link=1261350236/44#44 date=1264731188
    If its an ECM Giotto than I assume its past its warranty anyway. *
    touche :)

    Well with that in mind.....

    This is how i did it......TURN OFF POWER, UNPLUG FROM WALL

    1. remove reservoir cover, water reservoir and unscrew top plate and the plate under that which covers the boiler.

    2. Now on mine (GPP) i have the pressurestat on the right hand side in a black plastic box, on top of that is a yellow cap, remove it carefully(dont drop it)

    3. stick a large flat blade screwdriver into the whole and locate the screw adjustment, + and - is marked on the top, + to raise pressure, - to lower pressure.

    I did it 1/4 of a turn at a time testing all the way, i had the POWER OFF the whole time i had the top cover off.

    I tested by replacing top cover, turning back on running some water through head, letting some steam out and see where the boiler turns off and on.

    I ended up making 1 complete turn to the - bringing the pressure down to 1.2

    Test your shots too, thats what this is all about, note flush times etc

    I am in no way an expert on this, if you have any doubts whatsoever im sure a sponsor will help out over the phone.

    cheers
    warren

  47. #47
    kbc
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    Re: question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?

    Great advice Warren - thanks for all the detail.

    Ill definitely give this a try soon.




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