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Thread: Giotto Premium Brew Temp Low

  1. #1
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    Giotto Premium Brew Temp Low

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi All,

    Im hoping one of you have some experience or idea on solving my problem.

    I have an ECM Giotto Premium, manufactured in 2003, that has been in storage for about 2 years, after buying a Vivaldi II. I finally decided to sell it, but I wanted to make sure that everything was operational before doing so. The machine appears to heat up normally, 1.25 Bar on the boiler, but I noticed after about 30 minutes of warm-up that the E61 Group seemed a little cooler than I had remembered. I did pull a couple of unimpressive shots, and then confirmed my suspicions, by taking the brew temp, which was about 155F.

    What I ve done so far:

    Backflushed
    Went through the proper start up procedure
    Pulled the mushroom out to check for scale, checked its passages (very little scale)
    Taken temps with a thermocouple. Fittings attached to the boiler read from about 205-215, the fitting out the boiler that runs to the top of the E61 is 206 at the boiler, but as I move toward the the E61, the temps drop quickly. about 2-3 inches away from the boiler and at the entry to the E61 the temp has dropped to about 175. At the allen head bolt on the front of the E61 the highest temp I have seen is 164, but only after flushing. If I let the machine sit, the E61 actually cools. The allen bolt at the front will get down to 125.

    So at this stage, Im a bit stumped and didnt want to go blindly on without some advice. It appears as though there is some flow through the E61 thermosyphon, but from the temps, Im thinking something is wrong there causing the low brew temp, but where?

    Thanks a lot for any advice on where to look next.

    Kurt

  2. #2
    TC
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    Re: Giotto Premium Brew Temp Low

    Hi Kurt,

    One thing to look for:

    Remove the top (smaller) bolt from the gtoup and look into the hole. You will see the gicleur which looks like a small hex nut of 7mm with a small hole in it. Check that its not blocked.

    Hope it may help....

  3. #3
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    Re: Giotto Premium Brew Temp Low

    Thanks for the idea. I did check that, but looking at the flow diagram of the E61, I wouldnt think that the hole should effect the temp of the Group Head, but I think it would prevent the flow of water for pulling a shot. It was clear though.

    Kurt

  4. #4
    TC
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    Re: Giotto Premium Brew Temp Low

    Ok- check the anti vac valve- machine shows false pressure and drops straight to zero on the first request request for steam on warm up. Thereafter all is normal. Also, look for blockage/scale in the thermosyphon/thermosyphon restrictor/s (if installed). Lastly test the element for resistance with the machine switched off and unplugged. You should see circa 44ohm although if heating is flaky, it would take ages to come to pressure...

    Good luck!

    Chris

  5. #5
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    Re: Giotto Premium Brew Temp Low

    Hi Chris,

    Thanks for the reply. On my stock, US, Giotto, the E61 is fed from the top of the boiler through some brass fitting, about 2.5" of brass tubing, then brass fitting into the E61, out of the E61 through brass tubing into a tee, one side goes back to the water resv., the other side back into the bottom of the boiler. Would/could there be blockage anywhere along that path, and does that sound like the most logical problem to the cool E61 Grouphead?

    I dont see any flakiness on the boiler gauge at any point, and it appears as though there is sufficient steam. When I check the temps with a thermocouple at the boiler, all temps are 205 to 217 F at all times. The boiler pressure comes up to 1.25 Bar in about 10 minutes or so.

    Thanks again,

    Kurt

  6. #6
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    Re: Giotto Premium Brew Temp Low

    I found the problem!! Im guessing that this probably wouldnt happen in normal operation, and the storage of the machine for two years may have contributed. In the brass fitting at the top of the boiler (90 Deg) that leads to the top of the group, there was an accumulation of deposits that had restricted the flow of water minimising the thermosyphon action of the E61. Because the Group wasnt getting up to temp, and the the water flow through the HX was altered the brew temp was too cool. I cleaned up the fitting and problem solved.

    I hope that this helps anyone else that may have a similar problem.

    Cheers,

    Kurt



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