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Thread: electrical advice - control box on VBM

  1. #1
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    electrical advice - control box on VBM

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi all,

    I am wondering if anyone can offer me some advice on repairing a gicar control box. *This is from my VBM domobar super (one of many things wrong with it!!!). *What happens in is that when the boiler autofill kicks in, the control box makes a on/off switching noise continually. *It sounds to me very much like the relay going on and off very quickly. *It continually lights up the autofill activation LED, but only occasionally seems to get enough power to activate the autofill 2-way valve. *The noise will eventually stop, as it does occasionally let some water through, but is obviously faulty. *Other than this autofill problem, it functions as expected. *

    I have pulled out the control box and rewired it off the coffee machine straight from mains, and the problem was still there. *Indicating it is a problem with the control box rather than machine wiring. *

    So getting to my question! *im wondering how I go about tracking down the faulty component in the control box. *ie, relay, transistor, capacitor, resistor, transformer, etc. *Is there a sensible way to approach this, or do have to take out each component, test it and replace if required? *Would the relay be a good place to start, or is the continual switching probably indicate some other problem?

    Than ks for any help you can offer.

    For information: *control box is RL30/1E/second crack/C.

    Thanks!




  2. #2
    A_M
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    Re: electrical advice - control box on VBM

    Quote Originally Posted by 686D61656D623D0C0 link=1267088926/0#0 date=1267088926
    Hi all,

    I am wondering if anyone can offer me some advice on repairing a gicar control box. *This is from my VBM domobar super (one of many things wrong with it!!!). *What happens in is that when the boiler autofill kicks in, the control box makes a on/off switching noise continually. *It sounds to me very much like the relay going on and off very quickly. *It continually lights up the autofill activation LED, but only occasionally seems to get enough power to activate the autofill 2-way valve. *The noise will eventually stop, as it does occasionally let some water through, but is obviously faulty. *Other than this autofill problem, it functions as expected. *

    I have pulled out the control box and rewired it off the coffee machine straight from mains, and the problem was still there. *Indicating it is a problem with the control box rather than machine wiring. *

    So getting to my question! *im wondering how I go about tracking down the faulty component in the control box. *ie, relay, transistor, capacitor, resistor, transformer, etc. *Is there a sensible way to approach this, or do have to take out each component, test it and replace if required? *Would the relay be a good place to start, or is the continual switching probably indicate some other problem?

    Than ks for any help you can offer.

    For information: *control box is RL30/1E/second crack/C.

    Thanks!
    As to the highlighted part above.. Your an Electrician / Electronics technician... Are you not ?

    opps.. I guess the following tells the full story.

    im wondering how I go about tracking down the faulty component in the control box.
    It is one of experience and knowing what to do.. That why it is painful, when some attempt things and can offten make it worse; for those that have to follow / clean up.

    As any tec will tell you.. A self introduced fault can not only be expensive but add significantly to trying to find the real problem.

    Unless you understand all the wiring and feedback cct just applying 240V will tell you little and could cause other problems....

    Replacing one component at a time may be a partial fix, but if the root cause is not found it will fail again. Then again how will you test every component, with out lots of very expensive test gear..

    1: Replace every part and cross fingers :-)

    2: Buy a new one

    3: Let a skilled electronics person have a look - Mind you ya average Electrician may not be the best choice.


    Note: I can see at least one failed component and while it could be the only fault... With out taking measurements and looking at a few extra bits and the cct.. Who knows.

    Remember Assumptions kill and working on 240V is dangerous and against the law in Australia; unless licensed.



    PS. Checked one out for Borat some time ago... Was not the board, but *wiring on his system..

    Recommendation:

    See option 3 above.









  3. #3
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    Re: electrical advice - control box on VBM

    Hi AM,

    Quote Originally Posted by 58777E7C6B547877787E7C747C776D190 link=1267088926/1#1 date=1267089860
    As to the highlighted part above.. Your an Electrician / Electronics technician... Are you not ?

    opps.. I guess the following tells the full story.
    it does!

    Quote Originally Posted by 58777E7C6B547877787E7C747C776D190 link=1267088926/1#1 date=1267089860
    Unless you understand all the wiring and feedback cct just applying 240V will tell you little and could cause other problems....
    yes I understand all excluding the control box. My connection to mains was replicating exactly the state of the machine when turned on with the probe out of water. So im confident I havent caused any further problems, and that the problem isnt within the machine wiring.

    Quote Originally Posted by 58777E7C6B547877787E7C747C776D190 link=1267088926/1#1 date=1267089860
    Let a skilled electronics person have a look - Mind you ya average Electrician may not be the best choice.
    yes I was thinking this would be my best path - if there were not an obvious cause and simple solution to what I describe.

    Quote Originally Posted by 58777E7C6B547877787E7C747C776D190 link=1267088926/1#1 date=1267089860
    I can see at least one failed component and while it could be the only fault...
    haha!

    Thanks for your advice. Ill let you know how I get on.



  4. #4
    A_M
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    Re: electrical advice - control box on VBM

    Quote Originally Posted by 5F5A56525A550A3B0 link=1267088926/2#2 date=1267099122
    AngerManagement wrote on Today at 20:24:
    I can see at least one failed component and while it could be the only fault...


    haha! *

    Thanks for your advice. *Ill let you know how I get on.
    If I get the tone right... You spotted it ?

    Yes.. Keep us informed.. IF ya get stuck... Only a post away ;)

  5. #5
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    Re: electrical advice - control box on VBM

    well its all fixed. A friend had a look for me. ended up being the larger capacitor was faulty. Once this was replaced all was good. Cost me in total 98c, which sounds a lot better than $200+. I suppose the test will be if it lasts, like you say AM.

    Out of curiosity, could you see this in the pics AM, or do you see something else you thought looked bad? I suspect the pic made the joins look a bit worse than they actually were.

    Thanks!

  6. #6
    A_M
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    Re: electrical advice - control box on VBM

    No it was plain as eggs on ya face that the large cap was dried out.. Common fault with many electric items.. Thats why I only use high grade low leakage caps..

    He did change the other one as well, I trust.. If one has dried out the other will not be far away ;)

    I got myself a 21"lcd the other day.. 6 caps and $7 later all working as good as new.

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    Re: electrical advice - control box on VBM

    Quote Originally Posted by 143B32302718343B34323038303B21550 link=1267088926/5#5 date=1267345267
    He did change the other one as well, I trust..
    umm..no!

    Now to get onto the other multiple things wrong with this machine! This machine had so much money spent on it by the previous owners (actually more than the machine cost them new), but it seems the service company really only fixed what was immediately wrong, and not what was about to go wrong. Id be pretty disappointed if I were them - but I guess thats a good way for the service people to make money!

  8. #8
    A_M
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    Re: electrical advice - control box on VBM

    Quote Originally Posted by 32373B3F373867560 link=1267088926/6#6 date=1267346604
    Quote Originally Posted by 143B32302718343B34323038303B21550 link=1267088926/5#5 date=1267345267
    He did change the other one as well, I trust.. *
    umm..no!

    Now to get onto the other multiple things wrong with this machine! This machine had so much money spent on it by the previous owners (actually more than the machine cost them new), but it seems the service company really only fixed what was immediately wrong, and not what was about to go wrong. *Id be pretty disappointed if I were them - but I guess thats a good way for the service people to make money!
    Not realy... It usualy comes back to teh user and the $$$

    1: Most service contracts etc are about fixing the problem... Even a PMI / planned service is about replacing / servicing some components... It is not about rebuilding the unit to orgional specs at every service.. Thus things do get old and die.

    2: A good contract may identify items that are prone to failing due to age or use and thus can be managed... But the cost of teh contract will go up.

    3: In most cases, unless you spell it out and have the $$$ most service people just do what is asked..

    Ie. Change a tire, but may not check any thing else, thus no idear if the wheel bearings are shot....

    It is a catch 22... Time is money, parts are money and many do not know how to look for the root cause. Often it is the user :D and they dont want to know..



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