Results 1 to 45 of 45

Thread: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

  1. #1
    Senior Member bennett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    294

    VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I am just trying to come to terms with my new VBM Domobar Jr and finding shots consistently tasting burnt.

    A bit about my routine. I usually have it on timer and it comes on about an hour prior to making my first coffee. just before making my first coffee I run a cool flush of about 200ml, then I have a consistent dosing and tamping technique, and the pour usually comes out spot on like dripping honey between 20-30sec. The shots feel quite hot and taste burnt. Even subsequent shots can be the same.

    I will say that I am currently using it with my Sunbeam Grinder and will shortly upgrade to something better probably Mazzer Mini - although not decided yet.

    As I see it there are a few possibilities.

    1. Not using the cool flush technique appropriately for my machine. Maybe I should flush more or less or differently?
    2. Machine group head temp running too hot?
    3. Grinder not coping/or not suitable for quality Hx machine and affecting taste of coffee.

    Reading the sticky e61 brewing tips I notice that different people cool flush different amounts. I have experimented with my cool flush amounts - I wouldnt want to flush too much more as I imagine it would lower the temp of the group too much and have the opposite problem of sour coffee.

    Could it just be my grinder ? Any Tips ?

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    554

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Quote Originally Posted by 4E4942424958582C0 link=1267828746/0#0 date=1267828746
    - I wouldnt want to flush too much more as I imagine it would lower the temp of the group too much and have the opposite problem of sour coffee.
    Why imagine it...? Try it and see.
    The addition of the grouphead thermometer would eliminate the guessing and allow you to quantify the situation as well as achieve more consistent results.

  3. #3
    A_M
    A_M is offline
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,381

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Doubt it is ya grinder... It does get regular cleaning ???

    200ml is a solid flush and depending on ya system may not be ideal..

    Would be looking at ya machine setup.. OR ya beans?

  4. #4
    Coffee+carbon=heaven Mono's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Regional Victoria
    Posts
    747

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Hi bennett I cant actually offer a solution but I cant say that I have experienced a burnt taste with Jr. I have had sour & bitter but not burnt. In regards to a cooling flush, I do it spasmodically & when I do I would imagine that it is only in the vicinity of 50ml. Just doesnt seem to require one as when I do the water coming from the GH doesnt spit, f**t or carry on so I just shut it off, lock & pour. As AM suggested it may be that your machine setup needs to be checked.

    Steve.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,520

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    i want to know what the beans are? where they came from and how old.......

    i flush till i dont hear any "steamy water" coming out the GHead, thats water that makes a hiss hiss spit spit noise. For me its noise, nothing visual..... I dont have a VBM but my machine needs a fair flush if it;s been sitting there a while.

  6. #6
    Senior Member bennett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    294

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Thanks for everyones replies.

    It doesnt seem to spit or splutter much at all - even at the beginning of the flush. So maybe it doesnt even need a flush?

    My beans are a blend from SO coffee Sydney, one week post roast.

    Im not sure if Im describing it properly. I can tell sour - I get that when I dont let the machine warm up enough. With this it seems burnt and too hot to even drink straight away, which I am not used to. All I can compare it with is my old Sunbeam, where a flat white with the same coffee would taste better and not be as hot on the mouth *- with the milk being textured to 60 degrees.

    It might be easier to assess with a short black - except I normally drink milk based, so I wont be able to compare to anything.

    So it sounds like I should get my machine setup checked - it may be running too hot. Or it might be me..

  7. #7
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Quote Originally Posted by 2B2C27272C3D3D490 link=1267828746/5#5 date=1267848690
    It doesnt seem to spit or splutter much at all - even at the beginning of the flush. So maybe it doesnt even need a flush?
    So why are you flushing?

  8. #8
    Senior Member bennett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    294

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Quote Originally Posted by 0539243F353423363E35510 link=1267828746/6#6 date=1267849332
    So why are you flushing?
    I dont know... I just thought I had to, especially if it was idle for a while.

    I didnt know about the sputter/spit rule until this post...

    You learn something everyday.

    So can I interpret from your post, that a cooling flush is only required if it spits or splutters steam when the brew lever is activated?

  9. #9
    A_M
    A_M is offline
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,381

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Quote Originally Posted by 2A2D26262D3C3C480 link=1267828746/7#7 date=1267850304
    So can I interpret from your post, that a cooling flush is only required if it spits or splutters steam when the brew lever is activated?
    If it does as stated above then one has to assume that either the water or the head it is hotter than 96C - 100C and thus Steam / splutter.

    Opps... If were are looking to have about 90 - 94 for good coffee; and getting steam / spluttering, then it would suggest that temp is a bit high.


  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    153

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Hi Bennett,

    If you normally drink flat whites, and the coffee is too hot for you to drink, I would think that it is the milk being overheated? I wouldnt think that a shot of espresso ~5 deg hotter than required would affect the temperature of a whole cup of milk?

    Seeing that youve upgraded from the Sunbeam, Im sure the steaming power of the VBM puts it to shame. So it might be that you have to simply adjust for the much quicker steaming now? Could be that the thermometer is not keeping up with the actual rate of temp rise. So try stopping at 55 or even 50 deg.

    If that doesnt work, then start looking at the espresso again.

  11. #11
    Senior Member bennett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    294

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Quote Originally Posted by 5254435C5B350 link=1267828746/9#9 date=1267855190
    Hi Bennett,

    If you normally drink flat whites, and the coffee is too hot for you to drink, I would think that it is the milk being overheated? *I wouldnt think that a shot of espresso ~5 deg hotter than required would affect the temperature of a whole cup of milk?

    Seeing that youve upgraded from the Sunbeam, Im sure the steaming power of the VBM puts it to shame. *So it might be that you have to simply adjust for the much quicker steaming now? *Could be that the thermometer is not keeping up with the actual rate of temp rise. *So try stopping at 55 or even 50 deg.

    If that doesnt work, then start looking at the espresso again.
    Great Point. I was going to put this up as another possibility. My milk is ready A LOT quicker than with the Sunbeam - in fact I still havent nailed it. Maybe when I pull it off at 60 degrees, the thermometer is still rising and Im actually tasting burnt milk.

    Ill give it a go. Thanks Gavin - sounds like youve nailed it!

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Australia
    Posts
    1,756

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Absolutely! i have to stop mine at 55C MAX, try steaming to 50 and watch the temp guage raise, it should get to 58 or so by itself, so stopping at 60 will give you 70 or so id say, which is pushing burnt.........good post gavin ;)

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    153

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    no worries, guys. glad i could help. :)

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    64

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Hi Bennett, I tend to give junior a small cooling flush, never any splutter. Have a look at KKs excellent advice on "Creating great microfoam" (sorry no idea how to create link) in Milk Froth and Bubbles. Also check out Talk Coffee tips page. These have both been a massive help to me. Hopefully its a simple fix for you. Enjoy the ride :)

  15. #15
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    17,098

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Quote Originally Posted by 1410362F2F2A35222D430 link=1267828746/11#11 date=1267856015
    Absolutely! i have to stop mine at 55C MAX, try steaming to 50 and watch the temp guage raise, it should get to 58 or so by itself, so stopping at 60 will give you 70 or so id say, which is pushing burnt.........good post gavin ;)
    Yep, same here....

    And if its a hot and steamy day I pull it up at 50C on the thermometer. Really dont enjoy the taste of over-heated milk and it definitely can make your Latte/Cappa taste burnt...

    Mal.

  16. #16
    Senior Member bennett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    294

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    OK - just thought Id give everyone an update. Firstly I am sure what I was tasting yesterday was burnt milk. In fact I am almost embarassed that I didnt entertain that option first - thanks Gavin.

    I guess at the moment I am so overwhelmed with the VBM, and so many things/variables went through my head - my crappy grinder, and the complexities of a Hx machine, that I forgot to think about the milk - which I have been struggling with since day one!

    This is moving off topic and I may have to post elsewhere - BUT I CANT GET THE MILK RIGHT!!!!

    Yesterday I was burning the milk, today I pulled it off at 50 degrees and watched the thermometer climb to 58 degrees - but the whole stretching process in a 600ml jug takes about 5 seconds - its finished before its started. So today it was just too thin. I seem to vary between macrofoam - too many bubbles. or not enough - which looks nice and shiny but is just too thin. Even using KKs method, I get a nice whirlpool but it still ends up too thin. My problem I think is with wand depth placement, once I get that right it should be ok - but I struggle with the power of the VBM and the stupid angle of the steam holes - even when I dont open the steam lever fully its too quick. I was amazed to watch Otons youtube video because even on his machine the milk stretched slower than the VBM! Is the VBM turbocharged or something? I know its all about getting comfortable with the machine and it will eventually come to me, but it is difficult with the VBM due to its steam power.

    When I was buying the VBM I tried out the Isomac Tea and that was easy to stretch milk with - a lot like my Sunbeam. In comparison the VBM had a lot more steam power - I just thought with practice I would get used to it - but the penny hasnt dropped yet.

    I better go and practice some more *:-[

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,520

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    my next q is what brand of milk are you using ?

    i know it seems wasteful but go and get 3L (maybe 6L) of dariy farmers and just make shot after shot.

    i find the cheap milk, cheap woollies or franklins to hard to work with

    even top up the jug a bit more to give you a bit more time

    MY machine is the same about 7-10 secs to steam, my microfoam is nothing flash most of the time but its OK - good

    also practice with cold water, just to get your technique.
    just the physical system
    eg wand into water, steam on, stretch, whirlpool, hit temp, steam off
    i know its not he same but its how i sort of show people how to start if they want to have a go

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    268

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    There is a comprehensive manual written by a reseller which should be of interest:

    http://www.1st-line.com/machines/comm_mod/esprmach/vibiemme/Viebemme%20guide7a_press.pdf

  19. #19
    .
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    2,312

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Hello bennet.

    Cutting directly to the chase.

    Not wishing to upset but would you consider refering all these enquiries to the retailer that sold you the machine. It will probably mean a trip back to the retailer with machine (and grinder) and the coffee you are using. *It could mean taking some time off work. It will probably be a pleasure!

    Some clients think this is an imposition and an inconvenience. I tend to think it is the most direct & quickest way of solving your problem, is great coffee / machine / end user education, and will sort very quickly whether there really is an equipment problem or not.

    When you have worked out that there is (or isnt) an equipment problem, you can chase your equipment use techniques and coffee supply as separate issues.

    Pay for a lesson, it will be money extremely well spent.

    Good luck.

    Regardz,
    Attilio
    very first CS site sponsor.




  20. #20
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Quote Originally Posted by 636F666B6B620E0 link=1267828746/16#16 date=1267914733
    also practice with cold water, just to get your technique.
    just the physical system
    eg wand into water, steam on, stretch, whirlpool, hit temp, steam off
    i know its not he same but its how i sort of show people how to start if they want to have a go
    Its also a good way to see the wand depth.

  21. #21
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    I find that the whirlpool is elusive with the VBM wand. If youre trying to get it, youre probably fighting the machine and the machine will most likely win the battle- every time..

    My suggestion is that you rest the back of the wand against the rear of the jug so that the tip is off centre and just under the surface of the milk. You will get more of a tumbling motion than a whirlpool and this is ok too. Just hit it with the steam, hold where you are and do nothing.

    Some VBM owners have had the steam tip silver soldered and then redrilled the filled holes to 1.2-1.5mm but with a narrower exit angle on the stream. This solves the problem once and for all.

    Hope that helps! ;)

    Chris

  22. #22
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    929

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Quote Originally Posted by 6C584F59427569454C4C4F4F2A0 link=1267828746/18#18 date=1267918060
    Not wishing to upset but would you consider refering all these enquiries to the retailer that sold you the machine. It will probably mean a trip back to the retailer with machine (and grinder) and the coffee you are using.It could mean taking some time off work. It will probably be a pleasure!

    Attilio, I think you are correct, in this case we are the re-sellers and we are always welcome back our customers for more training after they taken the machine home.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7E4B46417569454C4C4F4F2A0 link=1267828746/20#20 date=1267919604
    My suggestion is that you rest the back of the wand against the rear of the jug so that the tip is off centre and just under the surface of the milk. You will get more of a tumbling motion than a whirlpool and this is ok too. Just hit it with the steam, hold where you are and do nothing.
    try the suggestion of Chris, it work for me very well, another thing do not open your steam full pressure.

    I have some training an installation on Tuesday afternoon, other wise David or myself we will be in the shop.

    Regards

    Renzo
    Di Bartoli Home Barista Centre

  23. #23
    Senior Member bennett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    294

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Quote Originally Posted by 1A2E392F34031F333A3A39395C0 link=1267828746/18#18 date=1267918060
    Not wishing to upset but would you consider refering all these enquiries to the retailer that sold you the machine. It will probably mean a trip back to the retailer with machine (and grinder) and the coffee you are using. *It could mean taking some time off work. It will probably be a pleasure!
    I was considering this. Yes Renzo is always happy to help. Given all the issues with taking it in - time off work, lugging heavy machinery back to the shop, etc I thought I would start here first, and Im glad I did, because Im 99.9% sure now there is nothing wrong with my machine, especially the espresso side of things and its just about taming the VBM Milk wand. I will seriously consider getting a lesson. At the very least take up Renzos offer of going in and having a chat about milk texturing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 0834293238392E3B33385C0 link=1267828746/19#19 date=1267918959
    Its also a good way to see the wand depth.
    I find this extremely helpful. I have been using water and a drop of detergent, and because I can see the wand depth in the water I nail it almost everytime - then I go back to milk (Dairy Farmers or Pura btw) and its hit and miss again.


    Quote Originally Posted by 083D3037031F333A3A39395C0 link=1267828746/20#20 date=1267919604
    My suggestion is that you rest the back of the wand against the rear of the jug so that the tip is off centre and just under the surface of the milk. You will get more of a tumbling motion than a whirlpool and this is ok too. Just hit it with the steam, hold where you are and do nothing.
    This is how Renzo taught me how to do it. I just veered from it once I saw KKs method posted here. I might go back to that and give it a go. Thanks Chris. The soldering seems like a drastic step. I would prefer to tame the beast rather than change the machine if possible. At least this tells me I am not alone with the VBM milk wand. I was even warned about it by David when I bought the VBM - I just assumed I would appreciate the extra steam power down the track and I would eventually become accustomed to the steam wand - which Im sure I will, Ive only had the machine 1-2 weeks and in the interests of conserving milk I am learning on my daily 2 coffees instead of doing the whole 6 litre thing in one session. Maybe I should just sit down and budget 6 L or so of milk until I nail it...

    Anyway thank you everyone for your opinions, like I said Im pretty sure I know whats wrong now - ME!



  24. #24
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,288

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    I found my VBM steamed small amounts of milk TOO QUICKLY!--I make small lattés and usually steam about 60-70 ml of milk at a time and 1 or 2 seconds too much and I had a burnt tasting coffee drink.

    I took off the steam nozzle (the 2 hole version) and ran a bit of copper wire through the holes which reduced their effective diameter. This worked a treat and I had no problems after that.

    It was easy, fast, and cheap.

    Greg

  25. #25
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Quote Originally Posted by 6C6B60606B7A7A0E0 link=1267828746/22#22 date=1267926700
    Thundergod wrote on Today at 10:42:
    Its also a good way to see the wand depth.


    I find this extremely helpful. I have been using water and a drop of detergent, and because I can see the wand depth in the water I nail it almost everytime - then I go back to milk (Dairy Farmers or Pura btw) and its hit and miss again. *
    As you are able to "nail it" with the water you should be able (with more practise) to do it with milk.

    Change you visual cue to the wand arm not the tip.
    After all, this will be the bit you see using milk.
    Learn to judge how far you are putting the tip under the surface by look, feel and sound.
    Once youve done that enough times it should all come together.

  26. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    169

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    I find it pretty easy to get the whirlpool effect - definately helps to use quality milk. play around with differnet milk volumes, jug angles and wand angles.. youll get it right sooner or later.
    steaming 60ml of milk though..hahaha...itll go everywhere..!!

    the temp of the milk out of the fridge makes some difference too - cold (3 deg) is more difficult than warm (6 deg)


    im wondering - is 60 degrees milk temp ideal?? i think im making my milk way too hot...hmm.. i usually let it cool down a little after steaming (at the expense of some foam, i should add)

    My domobar Jr was delivered with the pressurestat adjusted too high - was reading 13 bar during a shot, so I turned it down.. reading about 10bar seems really good.

    theres another adjustment screw near the steam want but im not 1000% sure what it does - steam pressure?

  27. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    169

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Quote Originally Posted by 465D4255580C05340 link=1267828746/17#17 date=1267917555
    There is a comprehensive manual written by a reseller which should be of interest:

    http://www.1st-line.com/machines/comm_mod/esprmach/vibiemme/Viebemme guide7a_press.pdf
    wow, that is an excellent manual. why cant VBM include something like that with their product?

  28. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    554

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Quote Originally Posted by 3E26282121344D0 link=1267828746/26#26 date=1268284778
    Quote Originally Posted by 465D4255580C05340 link=1267828746/17#17 date=1267917555
    There is a comprehensive manual written by a reseller which should be of interest:

    http://www.1st-line.com/machines/comm_mod/esprmach/vibiemme/Viebemme guide7a_press.pdf
    wow, that is an excellent manual. *why cant VBM include something like that with their product?

    Actually.... The manual was commissioned by the U.S. Importer who is also a reseller of the machines.


    ...and Thank You! I am the one who created it- all text as ell as the photos and layout. And I am available for hire! ::) Really.

    ..Just another coffee guy who is a photographer, writer, and graphic artist... We come by the dozen. ;)

  29. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    169

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    nice work!! ;D

    im keen to try a tune up of my machine now..

    my boiler pressure gauge shows 1.5bar (which decreases to 0.5 when i steam milk)

    (my brew pressure is 10.5 bar during a pull, which i have adjusted down from 13.1)

    I found the pressurestat adjustment screw, and wound it clockwise to decrease the boiler pressure...
    my problem is that the screw is now wound down fully, but the pressure still reads 1.5bar.


    what gives?
    an advice?

  30. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    169

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    IMPORTANT:

    someone please check this, and correct me if im wrong...

    1. The Pressurestat screw is on the upper right of the machine, underneath the warming tray. (on my Junior, the pressurestat says "Mater" on it & DEC 08).

    2. The pressurestat controls the boiler pressure/temp, which should be 1.5 bar, as indicated by the gauge on the upper left of the machine.

    3. Turning the screw CLOCKWISE INCREASES the brew pressure/temp (because it makes the boiler click on at a lower pressure)

    (i just had a look using a torch, and saw that the pressurestat has a + and - sign with an arrow, indicating clockwise is "+")

    your manual says:

    "Clockwise lowers the temperature - Counterclockwise raises the temperature"
    I can only assume a Domobar Super in the USA has a different pstat, which is opposite...??


  31. #31
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Quote Originally Posted by 6F77797070651C0 link=1267828746/29#29 date=1268632075
    IMPORTANT:

    someone please check this, and correct me if im wrong...

    1. The Pressurestat screw is on the upper right of the machine, underneath the warming tray. (on my Junior, the pressurestat says "Mater" on it &DEC 08).

    2. The pressurestat controls the boiler pressure/temp, which should be 1.5 bar, as indicated by the gauge on the upper left of the machine.

    3. Turning the screw CLOCKWISE INCREASES the brew pressure/temp (because it makes the boiler click on at a lower pressure)

    (i just had a look using a torch, and saw that the pressurestat has a + and -sign with an arrow, indicating clockwise is "+")
    Correct you are skelly,

    The junior has a Mater p/stat and clockwise increases pressure.

    Your machine settings are bizarre and reek of no bench test to me. Set the boiler pressure to about 1.2 bar at max. System pressure should read about 10-10.5 bar- which will lead to circa 9 bar at the group...

    Did your machine vendor forget about a bench test and sell you a box only? *:-?

    Chris

  32. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    169

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Cheers Chris!
    I was told it was set up and tested, but it certainly arrived too hot (and packaging was factory fresh).

    Ive now adjusted it down to 1.2 (max) and 10.3, and the two shots i pulled 10 mins ago were noticeably more consistent in colour & flow rate.

    oh well! its been a learning experience, and the coffee has actually been very good even with the settings being all wrong!

  33. #33
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Quote Originally Posted by 627A747D7D68110 link=1267828746/31#31 date=1268634440
    Cheers Chris!
    I was told it was set up and tested, but it certainly arrived too hot (and packaging was factory fresh).

    Ive now adjusted it down to 1.2 (max) and 10.3, and the two shots i pulled 10 mins ago were noticeably more consistent in colour & flow rate.

    oh well! its been a learning experience, and the coffee has actually been very good even with the settings being all wrong!
    Anytime skelly,

    When I used the prototype at Aromafest 2009, I had issues with the flow rate 20ml onwards as well. I know that ECA took that back to VBM and revisions for the Aussie market were made. I guess NZ is too small and you just get boxes at Euro spec....

    Most important thing though is that the shots have improved....Enjoy *8-)

    Chris

  34. #34
    Senior Member bennett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    294

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Ok, So now I have the new grinder, Ive been trying to get my routine down pat, so I can reduce variables.

    So today I did a before and after weigh of the portafilter handle with and without coffee.

    With my double basket I am filling it with 22g of coffee - according to the electronic scales !!

    I was amazed, I thought it might come back at 18-20g.

    I know theres no right or wrong answer, and the coffee pours/extracts well and tastes great - I still cant believe the taste difference between the Mazzer Mini and the Sunbeam.

    Now that I know the dose, I want to micrometrically *;D reduce my grind size a smidge to fine tune the extraction, altthough I find the adjuster very stiff on the Mini. Im assuming the grinder should be ON for any adjustments preferably with no coffee- is that right ? Also Ive been reading about duty cycle does that mean it shouldnt be on for more than 30 sec at a time and then remain off for 45 sec between grinds?

    Also, Im still not convinced about the doser - smoetimes I think it just gets in the way, and if I weigh my beans before going in eg 22g then I have to account for what I lose to the left and what gets left in the chamber - time for sweeper mod! Although my only other options were Mini-e for $400 more or Compak K3 touch. Anyway Ill get used to the doser - although I am realising it is more user friendly for the cafe/entertaining environment.

    BTW my milk texturing is now much better - its still a difficult wand to master - but Im getting there.

    Just some observations.

  35. #35
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,288

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Quote Originally Posted by 6E6962626978780C0 link=1267828746/33#33 date=1269038467
    Now that I know the dose, I want to micrometrically ;D reduce my grind size a smidge to fine tune the extraction, altthough I find the adjuster very stiff on the Mini. Im assuming the grinder should be ON for any adjustments preferably with no coffee- is that right ? Also Ive been reading about duty cycle does that mean it shouldnt be on for more than 30 sec at a time and then remain off for 45 sec between grinds?
    The grinder should be on for adjusting finer unless it is really empty. This avoids compressing grinds between the plates and possibly damaging something.

    Duty cycle: Yup -- youve got it. If you are "grinding on demand" this is no issue as a double will grind in way less than 30 seconds, and after you make that coffee and get back for another dose it should have adequately cooled.

    Dose: Use the 5-cent piece test to fine tune the VOLUME of the dose, and then the scales if you want to keep that consistent--Note that every change of bean or grind will change the volume, and it is the volume that is important, not the weight.

    Good to see its working for you.

    Greg

  36. #36
    Senior Member bennett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    294

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Quote Originally Posted by 0F3A2D2F1F273A2529242C480 link=1267828746/34#34 date=1269053453
    Dose: Use the 5-cent piece test to fine tune the VOLUME of the dose, and then the scales if you want to keep that consistent--Note that every change of bean or grind will change the volume, and it is the volume that is important, not the weight.
    I sort of understand what youre saying. Once I change the grind or even the beans the same weight eg 22g of coffee will occupy a different volume in the basket hence affecting extraction. So overall volume is more important. Will try 5c test

  37. #37
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,288

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Quote Originally Posted by 53545F5F544545310 link=1267828746/35#35 date=1269056833
    Quote Originally Posted by 0F3A2D2F1F273A2529242C480 link=1267828746/34#34 date=1269053453
    Dose: Use the 5-cent piece test to fine tune the VOLUME of the dose, and then the scales if you want to keep that consistent--Note that every change of bean or grind will change the volume, and it is the volume that is important, not the weight.
    I sort of understand what youre saying. Once I change the grind or even the beans the same weight eg 22g of coffee will occupy a different volume in the basket hence affecting extraction. So overall volume is more important. Will try 5c test
    [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

    Let us know how you go.

    Greg

  38. #38
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    10

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    hi bennett . My super leva delivers consistent burnt shots as well . I adjusted the pressure boiler and is now stagning at 0.5b climbing to 0.8b when it heats up. result is no more burnt coffee but less power when froth ing the milk . try that ..

  39. #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Australia
    Posts
    1,756

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Quote Originally Posted by 43485249534C45524F49200 link=1267828746/37#37 date=1270193793
    stagning at 0.5b climbing to 0.8b when it heats up
    WOW, that would drastically alter steaming capabilities i would imagine!!

    Cooling flushes never worked?

    PS; they should ;)

  40. #40
    Senior Member bennett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    294

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Quote Originally Posted by 5853495248575E4954523B0 link=1267828746/37#37 date=1270193793
    stagning at 0.5b climbing to 0.8b when it heats up
    Thats really low, however if it tastes good maybe its correct.

    My boiler pressure gauge varies between 1.2-1.4 bar. My brew pressure gauge consistently hits 10 bar during a shot.

    My technique is now really consistent and I am not sure if the machine needs some minor tweaking/fine tuning or not. Because I am such an amateur I am not sure, *however I still think its slightly too hot.

    Ive been meaning to call Renzo at Di Bartoli for some advice. I really dont want to take it all the way back to the shop unless I have to, my coffee tastes quite good, however its slightly bitter still and I am not sure if it needs tweaking. My beans are super fresh and Ive tried to minimise all other variables....

  41. #41
    Senior Member bennett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    294

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Im not actually being 100% correct.

    After the machine does its warmup, the gauge sits between 1.2-1.25, which is meant to be spot on.

    After a bit of use - eg shots and steaming - or when idle, it heats up and overshoots to about 1.4 and slowly comes down a bit.

    I dont want to mess with the pressurestat, coz it could actually be spot on as it is, and me playing with it just stuffs it up.

    Renzo bench tested it when I bought it, so it makes me even more reluctant to stuff around with it.

    Although my gut feeling is that it needs to be brought down a tiny bit.

  42. #42
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    17,098

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Gday Bennett.... :)

    Seems to me mate, that you are approaching this the right way with your new machine. Involving your vendor is vital before making any changes otherwise it becomes very difficult to compare apples with apples when seeking their assistance with some problem you may be experiencing.

    Its the way I would be doing things if I was in your place.... ;)

    Mal.

  43. #43
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    929

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Quote Originally Posted by 2D263C273D222B3C21274E0 link=1267828746/37#37 date=1270193793
    My super leva delivers consistent burnt shots as well . I adjusted the pressure boiler and is now stagning at 0.5b climbing to 0.8b when it heats up. result is no more burnt coffee but less power when froth ing the milk . try that ..
    All what you done is reducing the amount of preasure in the boiler, which means let temperarure.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2C2B20202B3A3A4E0 link=1267828746/40#40 date=1270200299
    Im not actually being 100% correct.

    After the machine does its warmup, the gauge sits between 1.2-1.25, which is meant to be spot on.

    After a bit of use - eg shots and steaming - or when idle, it heats up and overshoots to about 1.4 and slowly comes down a bit.

    I dont want to mess with the pressurestat, coz it could actually be spot on as it is, and me playing with it just stuffs it up.

    Renzo bench tested it when I bought it, so it makes me even more reluctant to stuff around with it.

    Although my gut feeling is that it needs to be brought down a tiny bit.
    Bennet and Chriseroi, you are welcome to bring the machine and we can drop a bit preasure down a bit if you wish. You need to bring the beans that you are using to tested with different drops or hights

    Bennet and Chriseroi have you try the cold flash, with different amount of flashing. Beacuse you have to remember different beans diffent flavours, different amount of flashing

    Regads

    Renzo
    Di Bartoli Home Barista Centre

    Any way give a call on tuesday to arrange time

  44. #44
    Senior Member bennett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    294

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Quote Originally Posted by 507D4B567566607B787D140 link=1267828746/42#42 date=1270247112
    Bennet and Chriseroi have you try the cold flash, with different amount of flashing
    Hi Renzo, my machine is very close to being spot on - so as you suggested I have started playing with the amount of cold flushing to adjust temp, rather than adjust the pressurestat, and it makes a difference.

    Although I might pop in just to say hi. *;D

    By the way, I got some beans from Hazel. Man shes a genius! Absolutely delicious.

    Happy Easter.

    Jerome

  45. #45
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    169

    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    since i adjusted my pstat to the correct settings...

    ive enjoyed huge improvement in consistency - no more early blonding!
    cooling flushes are basically unnecessary
    dont have as much steam power as before, of course, but its still enough

    ive been noticing slight pressure increases sometimes.. maybe due to warmer weather? or the volume of water in the resovior? not really an issue though..



Similar Threads

  1. Gaggia Dandy burnt tasting coffee
    By oneaday in forum Brewing Equipment - Midrange ($500-$1500)
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 31st December 2011, 10:00 AM
  2. Burnt Bitter coffee with Delonghi
    By tashoz in forum Brewing Equipment - Midrange ($500-$1500)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 1st August 2010, 04:33 PM
  3. First Roast - burnt?
    By pusca in forum Home Roasting - Tips, Tricks, Ideas
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 17th July 2010, 12:21 PM
  4. sunbeam em6910 burnt coffee
    By latte_girl in forum Brewing Equipment - Midrange ($500-$1500)
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 19th June 2010, 03:22 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •