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Thread: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

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    Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi everyone, pretty much a newbie here, although Ive been reading the forums for a while. I think Im narrowing down options.

    I visited Cosmorex and was looking at the Junior Extra and the Giotto PP (but there grinder range is low atm). I also did a course at Di Bartoli in Sydney recently, and liked the look of some of the machines set up there. They have an ex-demo Mondiale on special, it certainly looks nice.

    So I am keen to hear from all you experts on the pros and cons of these 3 machines.

    What do I want it for? I mainly like to drink espresso or piccolo latte, but most of my customers (friends) like milk coffees. (I also want to make smooth milk and pretty latte art *;)) Typically 2 coffees a day during the week and more on the weekend.

    Whats my budget? Well Id like to spend under $3500 for machine and grinder, but would consider going to $4500 if it was for machine + high-end conical such as K10 WBC.

    Thanks all,
    Graeme

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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    Quote Originally Posted by 42574440484046505D564A4B250 link=1269952732/0#0 date=1269952732
    Whats my budget? Well Id like to spend under $3500 for machine and grinder, but would consider going to $4500 if it was for machine + high-end conical such as K10 WBC.
    Heck why not go the whole hog and get yourself an Alex Izzo Duetto II. *From everything I read it sounds like its worth the extra $1K or so compared to a Giotto. *Note the special at Talk Coffee on the Izzo ends tomorrow.

    P.S. Go on, you know you want to ::)

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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    Hello Graeme,

    Commercial interest firmly decalred.

    Thanks for coming in to our showroom. I wasnt around as I was in Adelaide ;)

    I dont know who of the staff you spoke to...So here goes.

    Its not usually my place to comment on others imports (as we import the Diadema Junior machines), but as we offer a range of others in the showroom in addition to our own, hope you will permit.

    You saw a range of Diadema Junior machines, plus Domobar, Giotto, and a Minore. Thats quite a few.

    You are asking about the larger boiler machines, 1.8 litres or more.

    For the number of coffees you mentioned, a 1.3 litre machine is far much more than adequate but as always, you should buy what you want!

    In any case youve picked the two with the absolute best standard of finish. If you look more closely at only those two, you will see which has the best drip tray and the best chassis.

    The difference in performance is negligible or nil....overall, it will come down to individual opinions.

    We have sold the mondial in the past and are familiar with it, but when you already have seven E61 type machines in stock (with the other currently out of stock models arriving in the next container), there is not much point in stocking even more.....

    Others opinions may differ but I think you will find the steam valves of the Junior Extra and Giotto more reliable and easier to service long term than those of the mondial, I dont think the smaller boiler capacity of the Junior Extra and Giotto compared to that of the Mondial make any real difference to the level of performance in your situation, and you will find the drip trays are far superior on the Junior Extra and the Giotto.

    Some will ask what is so important about a drip tray?????? And the answer is, make a few coffees, forget to empty it at an appropriate time, and see what happens.....

    Absolutely the best drip tray in the class, is on the Junior Extra. When you have forgotten to empty it and it is on the verge of overflow, it will slip straight back and out. It doesnt need to be lifted up first & then moved out as some others do, and that type will of course spill your dregs everywhere in this situation before you have even moved it out of its posi!

    And yes, trust me it happens all the time :)

    As already stated you have to buy what you want, but please do take these comments in consideration while you decide, and I understand that if someone is offering a discount on a particular model, it may make the decision fiscally easy to a point where you might turn a blind eye to some of the points I have made above.

    Grinders:

    I am not sure I agree with the comment that our grinder range is low at the moment :)

    For the types of machines you are looking at,

    there is a chrome Macap M4 and a polilshed aluminium Mazzer Mini both in my honest opinion, very equivalent grinders.

    My opinion is they are superior grinders to equivalent size Compaks, so I dont stock them (the compaks of that size).

    For the budget conscious, hopefully tomorrow and if not then next week, I will have more Eureka Mignon grinders. They have an equivalent set of burrs to the Rocky, but a far far far superior grinder continuous worm ("stepless") adjuster.

    But for those that do want to go further, I have a WBC K10, a Macap M7K, an M7 and an MXA.

    Thats 2 conicals and several flat plate grinders of unimpeachable quality, for your type of use.

    I would be pleased to talk to you in the showroom now that I am back, but please call beforehand to make sure I am in at the time you want to call.

    By the way I can demo on my cupping set up by the roaster (a Junior Extra and 75mm M7).

    Hope this helps,
    Attilio
    very first CS site sponsor.











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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    Where the Diadema Junior Extra is concerned, I can back up everything that Attilio has written above.

    Our DJE is just coming up to its first birthday and has performed faultlessly throughout. It is super easy to keep clean, manufactured to a very high standard of finish (inside and out) and the coffee quality is second to absolutely none, so long as you do your part. I can also vouch for the Macap (M4) Grinders too, a perfect match with any of the machines mentioned. Very easy to keep clean, almost zero grinds retention and the Doser is a joy to use.

    Plus, buying from CosmoreX is buying into a world of terrific professional support from a bunch of very passionate and motivated people and you just cant put a price on that. All the best with your purchase Graeme, which ever way you decide.... :)

    Mal.

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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    Quote Originally Posted by 787973607E7B61120 link=1269952732/1#1 date=1269954594
    Heck why not go the whole hog and get yourself an Alex Izzo Duetto II.
    Mr Junkie, deliver me from temptation.

    Thanks Attilio and Mal. Attilio, I will definitely arrange a time to come in and chat. Id also love to be able to try / watch the machines in operation.

    I also appreciate your advice I would probaby be fine with a 1.3L boiler. Im guessing youd suggest the Diadema Junior lever? Are there other options as well?

    Cheers,
    Graeme *

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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    Excellent work EconoMan,

    Its great to buy locally when you can and Attilio will look after you.

    I really like the finish of the Diadema Regal 1.3/2.0 which is up there with DJE- another fave of mine and as you are aware, owned by Mal. The cool touch, ball-jointed wands are terrific...

    Another one to add to your short list...

    Happy shopping ;)

    2mcm

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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    Chris/Attilio,
    Are the only differences between the Regal and the JE the styling and the extra gauge on the JE? And if so, is the gauge worth it if you prefer the styling on the regal? Are the differences in cup warming tray size?

    Cheers,
    Ben

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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    Quote Originally Posted by 687D6E6A626A6C7A777C60610F0 link=1269952732/4#4 date=1270086644
    I also appreciate your advice I would probaby be fine with a 1.3L boiler.

    I have a Diadema with a 1.3 litre boiler - and it is amazing how fast it recovers from whatever you throw at it - (not that I would throw anything at it of course!) ;D


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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    [split] [link=http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1270093844/0#0][splithere][/link][splithere_end]

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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    Appresicate your very kind words guys!

    Graeme, we are open on Sat morning (tomorrow).

    Ben: Yes as you say, JE & Regal are basically identical inside the vastly differing bodies and,

    not having the water pressure gauge on the Regal is irrelevant. Once it is known that the machine is pumping at required pressure, unless there is a breakdown it it not necessary to have it there to read off.

    I have a Regal at home at the moment!


    Regards,
    A.

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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    If anyone from Brisbane/Gold Coast is interested in trailing out the Diadema Junior Extra in the the flesh we currently have one sitting on our bench for testing. We also have a variety of machines to test alongside and can honestly say initial tests show great results out of the box!

    In fact just to cover the cost of your fuel for the trip and give you that extra incentive to see the Only Display Diadema in Queensland well throw in free 1 Kilo of coffee to the first 5 people that make an appointment to see our newest bench addition... the Diadema Junior Plus Extra

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    A_M
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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    Quote Originally Posted by 7C4C5759564A5B4C6D575A5B3E0 link=1269952732/10#10 date=1270697513
    If anyone from Brisbane/Gold Coast is interested in trailing out the Diadema Junior Extra in the the flesh we currently have one sitting on our bench for testing. We also have a variety of machines to test alongside and can honestly say initial tests show great results out of the box!

    In fact just to cover the cost of your fuel for the trip and give you that extra incentive to see the Only Display Diadema in Queensland well throw in free 1 Kilo of coffee to the first 5 people that make an appointment to see our newest bench addition... the Diadema Junior Plus Extra
    I will see about getting down there ASAP and you can have my unit as another example of a great machine..

    But I will forgo the 1kg... Not because of the beans; but to give another person the chance.

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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    Managed to get down and see Rodger this afternoon..

    I can recommend to any CSér *that if ya in the area... *Drop in and have a chat.

    Roger is very passionate about his efforts and knows his stuff.

    We must have sampled about 12 different beans and I had both black and milk based - often of the same bean... *The difference in some were amazing / amusing *;)

    What was good was that Roger did not give any thing away, until after I had sampled and made my comments / call on that SO or blend.

    It was also good to just watch him work and to have a look at a couple of the new machines he has in stock.... * Note: If I dosed like that at home.. NEVER allowed back in the kitchen... EVER.

    Still I had a laugh as to the diverse roasting set up... 50g to 15kg.... * Rodger will understand and so will any one else that drops in.

    Rogers partner had to put up with us and I think she would have had a hard time putting any cupping notes / comments down on paper.. *The descriptors went from formal terms to those about a particular time / place, as for a couple of cups; *it was like being transported back in time and to a different place.

    So thank you Roger... Enjoyed the afternoon and will catch up soon.

    AM.

    PS. Still think the 24-Hour Urine Collection Bottles that QML use; would be a better internal water tank *:D

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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    AM, how did the different machines perform?

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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    Quote Originally Posted by 6D656A6C643E3B0F0 link=1269952732/13#13 date=1270946483
    AM, how did the different machines perform?
    We were drinking from mine and the giotto if I remember correctly.

    Mine did ok.. The Giotto has been tweeked and the others were only just out of the box.

    Personal prefrence as to looks...

    Would need to spend time on the machines and a supply of beans to realy comment as to which gives a better cup etc. A number of variables have to be considered.

    From a looks view, they all have a great finish and edges either folder and or buffed etc. None of those raw edges you get on a number of machines.

    Did have issues with the internal tank and hence my comment.

    A few cs people need to get down there and plan a few hrs to realy make and hard calls...

    Just do not mention cats......

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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    I went to Rogers place (SupremeRoaster) yesterday. My first intension was just to get a bag of beans and go home but I ended up stay there for nearly 2hr...

    Weve had an educated conversation (for me since Im totally new in coffee) and of course some coffee from his Giotto. I learnt a lot in one day!

    When Im about to go home, Roger gave me 1kg of beans as part of the deal that he mentioned above (which I did not know before I go there) Thank you again Roger *;D

    I strongly recommend any local CSer to drop in if you have a chance, totally worth my time.

    ps. sorry about my poor english... *:-[

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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    Um yeah.....well actually no....cant let this one get away without comment...re comment above and below, that the Giotto has been tweeked and the others were only just out of the box......

    Roger has been trialling one of our Diadema Junior Extra (DJE if you like) machines.

    All the Diadema machines we import are already tweaked before they come out of the box . Its what we call our "signature specification".....we have them put together on the production line to perform the way we want. This is the result of collaboration between manufacturer and roaster / importer during a 10 year association.

    So, if it runs straight out of the box, then it doesnt need to be further teaked...it is already set up the way we want.

    Hope this helps.

    Regardz,
    Attilio
    very first CS site sponor.







    Quote Originally Posted by 47686163744B67686761636B636872060 link=1269952732/14#14 date=1270952811
    Quote Originally Posted by 6D656A6C643E3B0F0 link=1269952732/13#13 date=1270946483
    AM, how did the different machines perform?
    We were drinking from mine and the giotto if I remember correctly.

    Mine did ok.. The Giotto has been tweeked and the others were only just out of the box.

    Personal prefrence as to looks... *

    Would need to spend time on the machines and a supply of beans to realy comment as to which gives a better cup etc. *A number of variables have to be considered.

    From a looks view, they all have a great finish and edges either folder and or buffed etc. None of those raw edges you get on a number of machines.

    Did have issues with the internal tank and hence my comment.

    A few cs people need to get down there and plan a few hrs to realy make and hard calls...

    Just do not mention cats......

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    TC
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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    Just to clarify a touch there, the DJE is superb out of the box, as Attilio and Mal will agree. The GPP is also right- out of the box.

    With all these machines, only a bench test and inspection is required as like many other machines, thermosyphon restrictors are fitted. We check for dings, faults and leaks and then check boiler pressure and pressure at the group. In very few cases is anything more required.

    Some machines can be tweeked for better performance, but in most cases, its not essential...I suspect AM may have confused a "tweaked Giotto" with the modifications we installed on some older Giotto premium machines.

    That said, there are some absolute dud brands where no amount of tweekage will turn them into diamonds. You wont find them in the ranges of CosmoreX nor Talk Coffee.

    Chris


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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    Well....

    If my DJ "Extra" is anything to go by, it performed perfectly out of the box. I had it dialled-in after a handful of shots and its been coffee nirvana ever since; theyre a beautifully designed, engineered and manufactured piece of hardware and I wouldnt hesitate to recommend them to anyone looking to purchase this class of machine..... 8-)

    Heres a review of my experience shortly after my "Extra" landed in its place on the kitchen bench.... http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1163234999/28#25

    Mal.

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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    Ill give a big +1 to that Mal. I opted for the DJE over the Giotto pretty much because I preferred the steam knobs of the DJE and we do plenty of milk based drinks at home. The drip tray is certainly very good volume wise, although to be honest I think it needs to stick out a few cm further so that my cup sits happily on the grate rather than partly on the solid edge of the tray. Really the most minor of issues.

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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    Quote Originally Posted by 564155545A320 link=1269952732/19#19 date=1272796400
    Ill give a big +1 to that Mal. *I opted for the DJE over the Giotto pretty much because I preferred the steam knobs of the DJE and we do plenty of milk based drinks at home. *The drip tray is certainly very good volume wise, although to be honest I think it needs to stick out a few cm further so that my cup sits happily on the grate rather than partly on the solid edge of the tray. *Really the most minor of issues.
    It probably comes down to an overall dimensional problem I guess.

    In our case, I wouldnt like the machine to be any deeper than it is as that would put the front edge of the drip-tray right up level with the edge of the bench and create possible bump issues. But like you say, its a very minor thing really and if youre careful, theres no need to position cups so that they sit beyond the grate section and risk scratching the solid edge.

    Im very, very happy with my Extra and have no reservations about making this choice.... 8-)

    Mal.

  22. #22
    kbc
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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    I love the Giotto - no more upgrades for me ;D

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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    Where else can I go!

    Do I really want a three head Hydra!
    I dont have enough power coming into the house to run it!
    I might look nice - bling! *Definitely an over kill!

    What I am saying is: *
    I am very happy with my Giotto. *It has taken a while but it is has now made friends with the grinder (this is a delicate relationship and cant be rushed). *I think most if not all of the units mentioned this thread are great *---- *But the choice of which of these excellent units is only the first small (tiny) step. *The real work starts getting it together when you get whatever you get. *

    For me it has been quite a journey but now it has come together only recently.

    dumiya

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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    Quote Originally Posted by 406D696568040 link=1269952732/18#18 date=1271938235
    Well....

    If my DJ "Extra" is anything to go by, it performed perfectly out of the box. I had it dialled-in after a handful of shots and its been coffee nirvana ever since; theyre a beautifully designed, engineered and manufactured piece of hardware and I wouldnt hesitate to recommend them to anyone looking to purchase this class of machine..... 8-)

    Mal.
    I can say the same of my GPP 8-)

  25. #25
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    Re: Giotto PP vs Diadema junior extra vs Isomac Mondiale

    Quote Originally Posted by 5751464D5750484A230 link=1269952732/23#23 date=1273455622
    I can say the same of my GPP *8-)
    Bet you bought yours from a Site Sponsor too "trentski"..... 8-)

    Mal.



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