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Thread: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

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    Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi all,

    Theres two Boema Espresso machines coming up at an Auction, for which I will have a few hours to inspect soon. *Apart from that I dont know anything about them yet.

    Any Boema would be good to cure my upgraditis since Ive come to the limit of my Breville, and Im happy to put in a small amount of time servicing and changing seals, etc (Im capable at taking apart and making small mods, with some electronics experience, but dont want to completely rebuild the thing).

    I dont expect an evaluation since I dont even know what the machine is yet, but my question is this: what should I look for, given Ill have a few hours to inspect it and probably wont have the chance to turn it on (although I may be able to twist an arm there if I smile nicely).

    Also, to bring the wife on-side, what can I tell her about Boema usability and lifetime? *Will one of these machines last "forever" (if serviced & cleaned)? *She is quite happy with the Breville quality, so she wont be won over by the promise of better tasting coffee until she actually tastes it ;)

    I really appreciate any quick help from the snobs!

    thanks,

    Iain.

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Sorry but you are in a no win situation. *If the machines cant be inspected in working condition ( ie turned On & used) there is precious little you can check.

    To answer your other questions. Nothing wrong with a Bo-Ema machine. Just like everything else, if you specify the correct equipment for the application, it will do the job. When in good condition and set up properly, Bo-Emas work well. As you do not know the model, it is hard to say whether they will be small volume machines or medium volume machines (or high volume).

    That said the coffee made from a Bo-Ema in good working condition ( commercial HX) *cant help but be a trillion times better than that made by any small (domestic) machine, which is what you are asking I believe.

    When you inspect, take the lid off (if you can...suggest you take a normal and a phillips head screw driver although in most ccases the top plate screws have been lost years ago...).

    Look at the way the groups are fitted to the machine. If the groups are bolted to the chassis, and from there, individual copper pipes run to the boiler, then the machines may be worth picking up at the right price.

    If the groups are actually welded solid to the boiler...walk away. This type of Bo-Ema is older than Noahs ark and due to the groups actually being part of the boiler, they run far too hot and burn coffee to your hearts delight.

    Note older Bo_Emas do not enjoy the same quality of build as their european counterparts. Buying an old Boema is like buying a 15 yr old daihatsu charade..... Is this what you want? (apologies to old boema and daihatsu charade owners hehehe).

    Newer Bo-Emas are quite nice small volume machines!

    Be careful that reading what many coffee snobs get up to in their chosen hobby, doesnt influence you to take a bigger step than you can cope with.....you are a brave man frontig up to an auction to buy an old coffee machine.

    Suggest a better way is to pay more but buy a tangible, working machine from someone, that doesnt need work, and enjoy the coffee.

    Good luck,
    Attilio
    very first CS site sponsor *


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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by 4B7F687E65524E626B6B68680D0 link=1274333836/1#1 date=1274334649
    Be careful that reading what many coffee snobs get up to in their chosen hobby, doesnt influence you to take a bigger step than you can cope with.....you are a brave man frontig up to an auction to buy an old coffee machine.

    Suggest a better way is to pay more but buy a tangible, working machine from someone, that doesnt need work, and enjoy the coffee.
    While the whole post was great...

    Those last two par put it into perspective..

    What is good for one, may not be so palatable for another OR just outright bad.

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by 7B4F584E55627E525B5B58583D0 link=1274333836/1#1 date=1274334649
    Sorry but you are in a no win situation. *If the machines cant be inspected in working condition ( ie turned On & used) there is precious little you can check.
    If I could turn it on and put water in it, what would you suggest I check (apart from no obvious fountains in unexpected places!)?

    As you do not know the model, it is hard to say whether they will be small volume machines or medium volume machines (or high volume).
    I rang and asked for some info - the first Bo-Ema is a small 1 gp model, probably the 1 gp caffe by the sounds of it. *The second is a larger 1 gp model, with a few more dials and knobs, so it sounds like the 1gp Deluxe perhaps. *The lady was "not very good at describing things" in her own words, but I will of course check it out tomorrow, and take some photos.


    That said the coffee made from a Bo-Ema in good working condition ( commercial HX) *cant help but be a trillion times better than that made by any small (domestic) machine, which is what you are asking I believe.
    yes :) *I expected it to be better, which is why I dont want to pass up the opportunity to get a Bo-Ema IF all factors are good!

    When you inspect, take the lid off...
    Ill definitely check the group / boiler attachment, this is the sort of thing I wanted to know :)

    Note older Bo_Emas do not enjoy the same quality of build as their european counterparts. Buying an old Boema is like buying a 15 yr old daihatsu charade..... Is this what you want? (apologies to old boema and daihatsu charade owners hehehe).
    No, if it was that old I would probably leave it alone.

    Be careful that reading what many coffee snobs get up to in their chosen hobby, doesnt influence you to take a bigger step than you can cope with.....you are a brave man frontig up to an auction to buy an old coffee machine.

    Suggest a better way is to pay more but buy a tangible, working machine from someone, that doesnt need work, and enjoy the coffee.
    I understand that just because some people here have expensive machines, doesnt mean I need one too (or does it?!), but I am working my way (slowly) up the coffee snob ladder, and one day Id like to be able to roast, brew, and art! *I watch auctions regularly, and I understand the risk with buying duds, but I usually know more about the product than I do in this case.

    Hopefully with a bit of time, some good knowledge about the machine, and a little bit of luck I can snag a bargain. *Im also quite happy to walk away and look another day, but if the opportunity is there I dont want to miss it.

    Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it :)

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Couple of potential traps you can avoid.

    Do they have pumps internally or not or do they come with one? If not add $150ish S/hand for one or $400ish new.

    General idea of how they were last treated is look at the shower screens for grot and under the baskets in the portafilters. Clean and tidy shows regular maintenance and hopfully a goer.

    If 2 group pay no more than $2-300, single groups will go for more due to the better WAF on the kitchen bench, not unusual to see them sell for $1k on evilbay :-/

    Factor in $2-300 service if you are not up to the job yourself and another $0-300 for parts (if you need an element, autofill etc). This may be $0 but to not buy with your eyes fully open is a bad thing.

    Caveat Emptor, there is a LOT of second hand machines available out there so walk away if it doesnt look good.

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    if they are 1 grps they may be 10amp machines and you might be lucky to just plug them in and turn on to test a little.....

    you then might be able to hear the pump run and if you quickly press buttons or switches you will at least know they "work" to some extent.

    if you turn them on and "nothing" at all happens then they might be DIA and be worth very little

    dont leave them on long, i normally would flick them on for about 5-10 secs waiting for the pump to fire up and at the same time try to get solenoids to "click" by pressing buttons etc. If the pump does not run at all when pressing the buttons (they normally just keep running if empty) then yes its more likely to have some issues.

    that said if with no water connected its very hard to test them to any extent.

    I have bought a few old machines as others have said $2-300 is maybe worth a punt but 1 grps often have unrealistic prices at auctions imo.... i would think that there are not a lot of chances to find them in Darwin so i would be going to the auction if i was there......

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    personally I would probably avoid unless there is some assurance it all works. or buy it, but budget lots of money for repairs, and if you fix it yourself lots of time also. maybe have a look on coffeeparts and find out what some of the bits will cost you - they are not cheap, so while you pick up thmachine realy cheap it costs lots to repair.

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by 29252C212128440 link=1274333836/5#5 date=1274347650
    I have bought a few old machines as others have said $2-300 is maybe worth a punt but 1 grps often have unrealistic prices at auctions imo.... i would think that there are not a lot of chances to find them in Darwin so i would be going to the auction if i was there......
    AND

    Quote Originally Posted by 2621252A22283D2D2A23440 link=1274333836/4#4 date=1274338878
    Caveat Emptor, there is a LOT of second hand machines available out there so walk away if it doesnt look good.
    AND the following are very wise words; that a few of us need to reflect on at times...

    Quote Originally Posted by 023621372C1B072B22222121440 link=1274333836/1#1 date=1274334649
    Be careful that reading what many coffee snobs get up to in their chosen hobby, doesnt influence you to take a bigger step than you can cope with.....you are a brave man frontig up to an auction to buy an old coffee machine.

    Suggest a better way is to pay more but buy a tangible, working machine from someone, that doesnt need work, and enjoy the coffee.

    Further more..

    Quote Originally Posted by 2025292D252A75440 link=1274333836/6#6 date=1274348255
    but budget lots of money for repairs, and if you fix it yourself lots of time also. *maybe have a look on coffeeparts

    Coffee parts has a good range; but they do not cover every brand and only some things can be interchanged..

    While they do their best; they do not have a Tec that is across every piece of equipment out there and nor can they spend hrs searching and measuring and testing to see what may or may not suit....


    Baby steps... and move forward... No playing on the top stairs; before you can walk them...

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    I recently bought a second hand Bo ema, and I got it worked fine, as though I justed wanted to see what it was like inside the boiler, whilst doing so some of the bolts were well rusted, and the gasket also fell apart, so I found myself on the phone to Bo ema, next working day the parts were at my house, (Sydney to Outer Adelaide), good luck with your purchase.

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Bo-Ema at Auction tomorrow

    OK, some good things to keep me thinking. *Ill tone down my faith in my own refurbishing ability a touch :)

    So about the Bo-Ema itself - why are they so expensive new ($3k to $7k) but so cheap second hand? *Is this the way with all second hand machines or do people just not get rid of them until they are dead?

    What Im really asking is how does a $3-7k Bo-Ema compare to $3-7k your-favourite-machine? *I dont see much mention of them here, so if theyre only an average machine I should probably be looking for a second-hand something-else!

    I also checked out coffeeparts.com.au, but they dont seem to have any Bo-Ema parts at all.

    Thanks guys, Ill inspect tomorrow better equipped :) *Ill take my camera, and get back to you tomorrow arvo!

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    i would buy one if the price was right just to see how it went :) one has yet to appear in my shed..... but give it time :D

    they are a bit of an ugly square box but..... and dont have a lot of style about them (much like my Brugentti)

    Attilio has discussed the Ghead issue and i just think they get a bit of a bad rap in general and are often seen in places where the coffee might be below average. but well loved i reckon they would make great coffee

    I am no expert but..... I had a laugh

    go check em out, if any good go to auction day.... throw in a bid maybe ??

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by 0901090E0402600 link=1274333836/9#9 date=1274363478
    So about the Bo-Ema itself - why are they so expensive new ($3k to $7k) but so cheap second hand? *Is this the way with all second hand machines or do people just not get rid of them until they are dead?

    What Im really asking is how does a $3-7k Bo-Ema compare to $3-7k your-favourite-machine? *I dont see much mention of them here, so if theyre only an average machine I should probably be looking for a second-hand something-else!
    Because businesses buy them and depreciate them over the first few years, then move on. At one stage (may still happen) coffee companies were giving away free new machines with contracts to supply coffee (which is why we save so much buying green :)) so there was a supply of second hand machines spare.

    I bought my Bo-Ema classic new some 10-12 years ago, get it serviced every 2 years or so, and it simply works every time. Had I spent the same $ on a consumer unit then, it would be in the bin by now! A mate bought a Giotto at the same time on the grounds that it looked better and still hasnt got a decent cup out of it.



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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by 2A21232C21322B213533400 link=1274333836/11#11 date=1274386314
    coffee companies were giving away free new machines with contracts
    ...and effectively selling those machines to their contracted clients in overpriced coffee and supplies....

    Quote Originally Posted by 606B69666B78616B7F790A0 link=1274333836/11#11 date=1274386314
    I spent the same $ on a consumer unit then, it would be in the bin by now!
    A Sunbeam, yes....If youre referring to a good prosumer machine, sorry, but thats absolute rubbish.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5952505F524158524640330 link=1274333836/11#11 date=1274386314
    A mate bought a Giotto at the same time on the grounds that it looked better and still hasnt got a decent cup out of it.
    Clearly, your mate needs to adjust the nut on the group handle ::)

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Find out who the local Boema service agent is. (Their sticker might be on the machine). Sometimes these guys refurbish old machines and you can pick up a working, checked and operational machine for $1000-$1300, usually no more than 10 yrs old. They can also service the machine for you if you have major problems. All the advice above is excellent, and use it as a guide. The machines are solid and very easy to work on. Parts are available direct from Boema, and their service is very good.
    Being built like a tank they will last for a long time, I have no regrets in buying one, and yes you can learn to make very good coffee on these machines ( no disrespect to any other machine, the topic is Boema).
    If you can pick it up at a good price, budget $300 min for parts, just to be on the safe side.
    Remember this is a commercial machine designed for lots of use, so all the parts are built accordingly, and have a good chunky feel to them.
    As to prestige, doing a search on coffeesnobs will reveal some "surprising" owners of these machines. You either love them or hate them, but many seem to have a soft spot for them.
    Best of luck, but do not get carried away with price, there are many units available second hand.

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by 7077626D60030 link=1274333836/13#13 date=1274393311
    Find out who the local Boema service agent is. (Their sticker might be on the machine). Sometimes these guys refurbish old machines and you can pick up a working, checked *and operational machine for $1000-$1300, usually no more than 10 yrs old. They can also service the machine for you if you have major problems. All the advice above is excellent, and use it as a guide. The machines are solid and very easy to work on. Parts are available direct from Boema, and their service is very good.
    Good call... Local if ya can... Build a relationship with the locals.. It is after all about community.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7077626D60030 link=1274333836/13#13 date=1274393311
    and yes you can learn to make very good coffee on these machines ( no disrespect to any other machine, the topic is Boema).
    Some love to hate various machines / models / manufacturers etc etc

    All too often a comment such as
    Quote Originally Posted by 6962606F627168627670030 link=1274333836/11#11 date=1274386314
    A mate bought a Giotto at the same time on the grounds that it looked better and still hasnt got a decent cup out of it.
    And we all know that comes back to PEBFAG big time.. The crappiest most basic machine can make a good coffee... It is all about the operator and how they treat their raw components and teh machine.

    A better built machine will never be a one size fits all... The operator has to take 90% plus of the responsibility for any shot..

    Boema wre started and made where ?


    iaindb - Ignore some of the tripe ;)

    As said previously along with others..

    At the right price, with ya eyes open GO for it... Coffee is about the road trip and these little detours as to machines, is part of the journey.

    If it was easy, you would never appreciate what in the cup. So get out there and report back... Pictures please if ya can.

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Hello again blokes.

    Sometimes a bit of bluntness cant go astray, please dont take it the wrong way......

    Ok let me make it simple because this topic is going round in circles and I would hate to see some one buying something they didnt need or didnt really want.

    Iain....decide whether you want a coffee machine or a project.

    If you want a project, do you want a running project or a basket case?

    If you want coffee, forget the auction. *Even if you could test it, you really dont know what you are looking for, *or what you are looking at, and you wont get coffee straight up.

    If you want a "running" project, wait until someone is privately selling a running coffee machine so you can get a demo, touch and feel it...and make coffee, and have it explained to you.

    If you want a basket case ie didnt want coffee straight up, by all means buy at auction but pay peanuts because you have to budget for worse case scenario.

    If you are luckly enough to pick up one of the better model Bo_Emas you will eventually (after you have finished your project) have a niice espresso maker. If you pick up the wrong model, it will always be a dog....but that is no different to any other brand machine. And this is what I mean about knowing what you are looking at.

    Bo-Ema has been around a long time so there have been a number of internal design changes through time as R & D permitted, just like with other brands.

    The price of their machines when new has nothing to do with second hand value, particularly when you are effectively looking at coffee machines that should be going to the dump because machines of a certain age are already well past their effective useful commercial life. remembering, they are a commerical work horse.

    If you go down the path of a project getting help is very easy...forget everyone else and go straight to either the local Bo_Ema agent OR toBo_Ema themselves in Sydney and as other have said, they are nice people to deal with and give very prompt service.

    With respect to all here, the danger with getting advice here is I doubt you will be allowed to turn them on anyway, and depending on the models presented for sale most of these machines are plumb in jobs, and if they have external pumps I will bet my bottom dollar they are missing...and the machines are only siitting on a bench and not rigged to operate even if you get to turn them on..... so plugging in and turning on wont prove a single thing if you dont have the expertise.......so you have to budget for worse case which is for a non running project and whatever that will eventually entail including the possibility of spending more than the particular model is worth (if budget is important).

    Repeating...you have to decide what you want. Buying a project as a result of influence from sites like this, doesnt get you a cup of coffee if that is what you are really looking for.

    Regardz,
    A.








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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by 17233422390E123E37373434510 link=1274333836/15#15 date=1274395380
    With respect to all here, the danger with getting advice here is I doubt you will be allowed to turn them on anyway, and depending on the models presented for sale most of these machines are plumb in jobs, and if they have external pumps I will bet my bottom dollar they are missing...and the machines are only siitting on a bench and not rigged to operate
    To back up Attilio (not that hes not authoritative) Ive been to sponsor Omaras many times and they almost every week have used espresso machines for auction, but as Attilio suggested, they are all just sitting on a bench on display.
    They are not plumbed or even available to be powered as its just not practicle.
    Its not that Omaras are not nice people, its just that they get so many machines through that they are sold on a "as is" basis.

    You may be lucky to test run a grinder but espresso machines are way too big to move around for such demos and the auction house does not have a dedicated area just to display and run coffee machines.
    After all, they are in the business of auctioning many different types of items not just coffee machines.

    They dont even know in many cases whether or not the machine was working before it was delivered to them.
    Its always a case of "buyer beware" unless its an on-site auction where theres a better chance that the machine was recently running and may still be plumbed in and powered and they might let you test it (no guarantees).

    I imagine your local auction place runs along the same lines.

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    iaindb,

    As above, If you want coffee without the hassle save your money and buy a second hand machine in working order from a CSer (you might even get training) or from a sponsor. I know that Barazi Bezzera Coffee Machines have some second hand machine on their website. Remember there is no rush if you are getting good coffee from your Breville.

    If your after a project then go for it but not everyone is technically minded or interested in pullling apart a machine. I think mine will probably have cost me about $500 all up. $100 for the machine and $400 in parts so far, but Im enjoying it and learning a heap about the mechanics of an espresso machine. Are you this type of person?

    Anyway, enjoy the auction. Cant hurt to go and take a looky.

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    hahaha!!

    Well, heres the first Bo-Ema coffee machine. *Apparently this is how their espresso machines look now * :o


    And heres the second one:


    It looks a bit grotty and tarnished - not a good sign. * Not what Im looking for either, so I didnt bother checking further.

    Thanks for the invaluable wisdom everyone provided - I think with my tax return Ill look at purchasing a good second-hand machine here :)

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    yeah good call.....

    as for the machine, 2 diff steam wands (well used)
    manual override button missing
    that hot water knob might be diff brand (non orginal)

    starts to point to higher use..........

    your learning just looking :)

    on with the hunt

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Later "classic" model.

    Will make good coffee when sorted.

    In typical "ex cafe" condition.

    But dont let grotty condition fool you, you can clean anything.

    I am heartened that it is not a dinosaur model that I was expecting to see....

    However for home use in most cases it is overlarge (2 groups) and ugly (yep I know its in the eyes of the beholder but).....wont fit in too many household kitchens.

    I too am not heartened to see stuff missing (a simple toggle switch) and grotty steam pipes....but they are simple to rectify.

    My advice, buy something suited to more regular household needs, smaller, cleaner, known to be fully operational.

    ********************************************

    The grinder is worth having if it is a separately listed item (seems to be) and you can get it for a good price. They are virtually indestructible and I would bet it will only need a bit of a clean up so no further money to spend and no need to ever upgrade again for a home situation.

    Regardz,
    A.

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Grinder for $1-200 would be a great buy if you have the bench space for it. Worst case providing the doser still works is bearings and maybe burrs if required.

    The machine itself is actually in comestically not bad condition based on some I have seen still in use :o As to style square functional, boring yep thats your average 10-20 year old Boema. ;)

  23. #23
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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    For the right $$$ *I would have taken the machine.. .. Oh, I am cheep so say $100 tops.

    A few bits worth having for the home handy man and then there was *those JUGS *;D

    Need them for the steaming shoot off here on the 6th...

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Hello beanflying, for a domestic end user I would venture even higher $ for the grinder but of course it depends entirely on the individual.

    I have some similar model Gino Rossis that I imported direct from the manufacturer almost 20 years ago. Nearly all of them are still in use and usually only ever require a set of grinding plates from time to time....occasionally a capacitor, and sometimes a spring or ratchet or some other component in the dispenser unit.

    I would put it into perspective this way. It is a good quality small volume cafe grinder.

    Mazzer Mini and Macap M4 are smaller volume than the GR. You would buy a new MM or M4 for somewhere between $700.00 and $900.00 depending on painted body or chrome / polished aluminium....so say $800.00 for the discussion, new.

    You can buy a new Rancilio Rocky for somewhere betwen say, $460.00 to $499.00, and it is an even smaller volume grinder than the M4 & MM, which are smaller volume the the GR.

    The method of adjustment on the GR (commercial stepped) is better than the method of adjustment of the Rocky.

    To my way of thinking then, theoretically a householder is still in front in terms of quality of grinder, if he decides to bid *perhaps almost right up to the new price of a Rocky....say......$400.00

    The Isomac Gran Macinino has an RRP of around $400.00 It is a small *domestic grinder and it is not a patch on anything mentioned above especially the Gino Rossi.

    An importer bringing in a grinder such as the Gino Rossi depicted, will pay more than the RRP of a new Rocky to land such a grinder in his warehouse here in Oz and this explains why new price of such a grinder has to be somewhere around $1000.00 when new.

    So.............

    It all depends on how you justify the value of the grinder, what you are comparing it to, or what you are prepared to pay.
    *

    Hope this helps put it all int0o perspective.

    Regardz,
    A.




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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Well, the auction is still to come (tomorrow morning) - Im sure they would do a bid on the books if anyone is seriously interested. *I could _maybe_ assist with picking it up for you but I cant store it anywhere.

    Its definitely not what I wanted for my kitchen - WAF is almost 0 ;) *and I dont have that much space, regardless of how good a machine it might end up to be.

    As for the grinder - yes its a separate item, and it has a note saying its had new plates or something, and well serviced (at some date). *Not exactly what Im looking for either - too large for my kitchen, and I would prefer doserless for now. *I am tempted by the statement
    no need to ever upgrade again for a home situation
    though :)

    So I dont think Im going to bid on either of them. *If Im there, Ill let you know how much they go for :)

  26. #26
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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Hi Atillio,

    yep worth whatever anyone will pay ;) I paid about $250 each for my DRM Cimbalis with spare plates so I was only basing it on what I reckon plastic finished GRs fit in. If it said M7, BNZ, K10 or Robur for $200 or even $500 then I would be on a plane tommorow to pick one up :)

    Iain, Compared with your less than adequate Breville grinder grab it if you can for a good price depending on WAF and it will do you for anything machine wise you are likely to get in the future until you decide shiny metal is better. You will get an improvement straight away in the cup even with your current 820.

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    beanflying, Ill pm you my wifes mobile number, if you could just call it and convince her a better (and bigger) grinder will make a better cup, then that would be great, cheers thanks mate *;D *;D

    Ill see how I go...

  28. #28
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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    i had a GR 45 (same grinder) and it was pretty good, and i agree you would never really need to upgrade again until conical.

    i would easily pay 250 for a good one maybe 300 if it looked VG condition. if you paid 200 -250 for ti you could easy get your money back later if selling amusing its all good.

    to make it smaller you can make a (or none) bean hopper. I used a plastic sink plug in the top where the hopper goes to stop my single dose grinds jumping out. and also ran mine as *doser less for for a while using a plastic funnel for the "chute"

    I have replaced min with a mazzer SJ that was a good deal at the time. I reckon the mazzer is better but not 100% better as its hard to identify to me.

    have fun

  29. #29
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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Sheesh, I was going to leave it, now you have me thinking again :) *So:
    • If I resold it I might get $200 or even $250 if lucky
    • WAF just went up one if I can make it a bit smaller
    • It beats the pants off my Breville Conical Burr, even modified
    • No need to upgrade for a long long time, for domestic use
    • Will make better coffee (which is the ultimate aim) from my current machine, and will suit my next machine, when that comes!


    I think Ill set my absolute limit to $200, lets hope nobody else wants it.

    Im going to check out spare parts prices for it then...

    thanks :)

  30. #30
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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by 5850585F5553310 link=1274333836/28#28 date=1274443808
    WAF just went up one if I can make it a bit smaller
    Many have altered the hopper
    Be it purchased or hand made DIY modification
    That will reduce the visual bulk by a country mile and improve the WAF factor * :o

    KK

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    hehehe....you blokes are killing me....... :)

    If a Mazzer SJ has 64 mm plates, and the Gino Rossi also has 64 mm plates....and the plates are more than likley all sourced from a company that specialises in making plates to sell to all grinder manufacturers (ie plates not Mazzer manufactured or GR manufactured).....and the profile of the two plate designs differs in the main, only to cater for the different direction of rotation between the two grinders.....how can the grind quality of the mazzer be any better than that of the GR....Or, how can the grind quality of the GR be any worse than that of the Mazzer.......or if that of the mazzer is better...can it be quantified and if so how, and if so is it significant?

    And what about the under utilization these grinders are going to get at home....ie not using them to their full capacity....as in home use where they will never overheat and cook the grinds..... ie where their capacity (at home) is far in excess of their ability to perform.....how does this make a 64 mm GR grinder a lesser grinder than a 64 mm Mazzer in terms of grind quality...?

    There will of course be some differences in the rest of the design and build of the the two models in toto, but grind quality per se...in *home use?????????

    Sheesh! *The internet......a great source of information one day, and of misinformation the next! :D

    I have both GRs and Mazzer SJs in my fleet. They both fare about the same in cafe use dependent on how well they are treated over time by some very unsympathetic operators.....

    Why would anyone not buy a good used GR at auction for home use, and if pushed depending on the individual bidders on the day, pay somewhere near to the price of far far lesser new domestic grinders that wont grind coffee as well and last 20 years less......?

    If one of you blokes doesnt go to the auction and buy that GR.....maybe I will, because it will get snapped up at far less than the cost of new replacement by the importer....even if it goes to $500.00...and it wont go for anywhere near that. ;)

    Regardz,
    A.

    Note I am not a Gino Rossi importer so no bias there.

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by 41656C6C6F6F5541657967650A0 link=1274333836/29#29 date=1274444744
    Many have altered the hopper
    Be it purchased or hand made
    That will reduce the visual bulk by a country mile and improve the WAF factor * :o
    Neat.

    I see they come in various forms - conical burrs, flat burrs, and plates? is it much of a muchness wrt quality? *(relative to my Breville its probably all better, but this grinder scored points for never needing an upgrade - would flat burrs be less "future-proof"?)

    How can I identify this one? *I have been researching but its a bit hard to figure out when I dont know the exact terms :)

    thanks guys for continuing to answer all my questions :)

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by 6C584F59427569454C4C4F4F2A0 link=1274333836/30#30 date=1274445869
    hehehe....you blokes are killing me....... :)
    ...
    If you blokes doesnt go to the aucstion and buy that GR.....I will! ;)
    Point taken :) *I have a tendency to ask lots of questions.

    I should stop making noise now - theres probably not much more Ill learn until the hammer has fallen, so the next post from me will be after that :)

    thanks again & good night all - this place is invaluable!

  34. #34
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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by 6C584F59427569454C4C4F4F2A0 link=1274333836/30#30 date=1274445869
    hehehe....you blokes are killing me....... :)

    Regardz,
    A.
    .
    I had a laugh, 95 % of the reason I reckon the mazzer is better is ITs NEWER !!! Bling bling !!! i prefer its looks as well :)

    but also the burrs were / are near new on my MAz where the GR i had were no where near new. It is also quieter than the GR i had, and the less noise makes me think it was faster but may not really have been....

    that GR was older so i am not comparing them on like for like.....

    there is just a fair price diff in 2nd hand GR to MAZ

    Love your work Attilio, you bring a clear head to this forum often :)

  35. #35
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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Gday L,

    yep, there is no doubt that a new looking grinder makes a tired looking grinder look really really bad....

    In any case it will be interesting to note that an SJ with worn plates screams as loud and as high pitched as a GR with worn plates....which is a terrible thing to hear.

    Trouble is, in cafe situations where there is lots of other noise, and where the operators live with the same grinder day in and day out so are used to level & pitch of noise, they dont notice it growing in volume over time to a point where it it ear piercing.

    This is usually an indication that the plates are shot and need to be replaced. You replace them and all of a sudden everyone notices how much quieter it is.

    But over time the volume and pitch increases again slowly.

    This will never happen in home use because the through put of coffee simply is not the same. For example, a cafe using say 10 kilos a week has done 400 kilos in 40 weeks or less than a year. A high use household using 1 kilo a week *will take 400 weeks or roughly 7.5 years to get to the same point where someone needs to wonder about changing the plates.

    If a grinder screams....its an indication of wear on the plates and as has been noted, it is then not a fair comparison to compare an SJ with good plates to a GR with older plates.

    Otherwise it should be almost impossible to tell the difference in quality of grinds as translated into the cup.

    I will repeat, an SJ with worn plates is just as loud as a GR with worn plates. And both brands fare just as badly under the care of unsympathetic operators, and just as well under the care of sympathetic operators.

    So it is unfair to at Carte Blanche (as happens in internet forums) , label Mazzer grinders as somehow posessing iconic attributes and to be something to strive for, *and to label many other good name grinders as somehow being of lesser quality. *

    When they are operated by sympathetic people, and when the correct models are specified for any give situation, then in fact most cafe spec grinders of indeterminate brand, will do a marvellous job because after that, it always comes down to the operator.

    And of course, most grinder problems are caused by some one underspecifying the model for the situation. And then someone not knowing how to manage the grinder in the work situation. This is not the brands fault.

    Which means in home use.......?


    Regardz,
    Attilio.


    This is not an anti Mazzer thing, it is a "realistically fellas, whats so *wrong with the others" thing.

  36. #36
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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    OH. MY. GOSH. :)

    The grinder went for $105, and the machine went for $100. *:o

    Yes I was bidding on the grinder, but the other guy _really_ wanted it. *I chatted to him later & he would have gone to $200 or more. *Still cheap, but I cant really justify the size and cost at this stage :(

    The doser also looked a bit faulty, and there was some resin on the base holding together a crack... *At least Im telling myself these are good reasons to let it go!

    Well thanks a million for the advice - Ill definitely be saving at tax time to get a good second hand machine & grinder, and Ill stop by here first :)

  37. #37
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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Cheap :) A couple of the 2 group Z9s I picked up a year or so ago to play with were around that price too from evilbay plus some freight.

    You had better send Attilio an email too when you are up to buying, after the novels he has posted ;) I know he did have some second hand ones for sale a while back.

  38. #38
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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by 4941494E4442200 link=1274333836/35#35 date=1274492086
    The grinder went for $105, and the machine went for $100.

    Yes I was bidding on the grinder, but the other guy _really_ wanted it.I chatted to him later & he would have gone to $200 or more.Still cheap, but I cant really justify the size and cost at this stage
    Maybe he also read this thread ;D
    Anyway, he picked up a bargain.
    The machine was a steal, even if just for spare parts.

  39. #39
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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by 5A5D48474A290 link=1274333836/37#37 date=1274503036
    Quote Originally Posted by 4941494E4442200 link=1274333836/35#35 date=1274492086
    The grinder went for $105, and the machine went for $100.

    Yes I was bidding on the grinder, but the other guy _really_ wanted it.I chatted to him later & he would have gone to $200 or more.Still cheap, but I cant really justify the size and cost at this stage *
    Maybe he also read this thread ;D
    Anyway, he picked up a bargain.
    The machine was a steal, even if just for spare parts.
    Showing a Community spirit.. Pay it forward... Why purchase or push another for no good reason.. Now it it was your stuff being auctioned... Another matter ;D

    That machine at $100 was my target .. Procon pump 2 or more group handles / baskets and 3 or 4 big SS jugs etc.. Let alone all teh copper pipes and valvs / solenoids etc etc etc.. BUT worth NOTHINg if you can not use ;)


    Just what I was looking for. Cut teh boiler in half and have the scaled / dirty section mounted on teh wall; just like a trophy ;D

    A... Might have paid teh $200 and the shipping ???... But maybe you have met another CS in teh making.. A local contact if in need...


  40. #40
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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by 5A5D48474A290 link=1274333836/37#37 date=1274503036
    Maybe he also read this thread ;D
    I thought of that, but I dont think so - I was considering removing any location details...

    Quote Originally Posted by 5C737A786F507C737C7A78707873691D0 link=1274333836/38#38 date=1274504600
    Showing a Community spirit.. *Pay it forward... Why purchase or push another for no good reason.. *Now it it was your stuff being auctioned... Another matter *;D
    Yes, both would have been great at $100, but like you said - if I kept bidding, he would have kept bidding, and both would have been more. *It only takes one other buyer to push the price right up. *(I wish he wasnt there, but oh well, thats life!)

    I didnt see the point on bidding on the machine - if I cant use it he may as well have it for as low as it goes. *A few earlier bids were lumped together, so he actually got the machine, a small TV, dictionary on CD, and aDSL modem all for $100! *woot!

    That machine at $100 was my target .. *Procon pump 2 or more group handles / baskets and 3 or 4 big SS jugs etc.. Let alone all the copper pipes and valvs / solenoids etc etc etc.. *BUT worth NOTHINg if you can not use *;)
    You wanted it? *I was hinting at bidding for someone else on CS and sending it to them. *A bit short notice though :) *And I have less than 50 posts so you dont know who I am yet :)

    A... Might have paid the $200 and the shipping ???... But maybe you have met another CS in the making.. A local contact if in need...
    He didnt look the talkative type, but who knows? *My experience in Darwin is that people are grouped into two categories:
    • The first group dont understand what a good coffee is and dont believe you when you say a better grinder or fresher beans will make a better coffee. *They think anyone can make an espresso on any machine, given a few seconds to learn.
    • Those that do know about quality machines and making coffee dont seem too interested in talking about it - perhaps they think Im in the first group and dont want to explain everything to me. I havent yet met one person, in person, who appreciates fresh beans, quality grinding, and proper brewing :-?

    Anyhoo, after that let down, Im going to make a "wanted to buy" post. *I think Ill start with the grinder, as thats probably cheapest, and then get the machine in a few months.

    Thanks for the help. Iain.

  41. #41
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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by 717971767C7A180 link=1274333836/35#35 date=1274492086
    The grinder went for $105, and the machine went for $100.

    Yes I was bidding on the grinder, but the other guy _really_ wanted it.I chatted to him later & he would have gone to $200 or more.Still cheap, but I cant really justify the size and cost at this stage
    Still cheap at $205 ;)

    Size and WAP will come into the equation with a GR.
    I have a conical one at home but its too big even for my kitchen.
    Without the hopper its as tall as my Macap.

    Now you have an idea of auction prices and how lucky or not you can be depending on who else is bidding.

    I got my GR for $300 because no one else was bidding for it on the day.

  42. #42
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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    [QUOTE=5A6F6265514D6168686B6B0E0 link=1274333836/12#12 date=1274387884]
    Quote Originally Posted by 2A21232C21322B213533400 link=1274333836/11#11 date=1274386314
    Quote Originally Posted by 5952505F524158524640330 link=1274333836/11#11 date=1274386314
    A mate bought a Giotto at the same time on the grounds that it looked better and still hasnt got a decent cup out of it.
    Clearly, your mate needs to adjust the nut on the group handle ::)
    Ah yes, the sense of humor of a suplier ...

    Actually the THING WAS adjusted by the importer a couple of times early in the piece, and never good, and fully services again recently, along with a new element, big service, descale, several hundred dollars ...... by the importer - and the stream power is still cr@p.

    Pump just dropped its guts and its back there. They said they can put upgraded parts to make it better ...

    Their solution of un-reliable sigle shot extractions? "Oh, we just use the double filter ..."

    The Bo-ema I bought is still great ... but then you probably dont sell them ...

  43. #43
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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    There are bad examples of anything on the planet, sometimes you just get a lemon. The key is, a good supplier will always be there to look after you.

    Not knocking the Bo-ema as such but if you lined up a thousand units of each the Bo-ema and the Giotto for home use, it is my personal opinion the the Giotto might come away with the win.

  44. #44
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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by 73706363747D110 link=1274333836/42#42 date=1274519122
    There are bad examples of anything on the planet, sometimes you just get a lemon. *The key is, a good supplier will always be there to look after you. *

    Not knocking the Bo-ema as such but if you lined up a thousand units of each the Bo-ema and the Giotto for home use, it is my personal opinion the the Giotto might come away with the win.
    Actually the service tech said it was pretty normal for an original. He did say the Premium Plus was much better.

    My point being, the Bo-Ema and other commercial units are in a different class, despite the smaller units getting better all the time, their major advantage remains size.

  45. #45
    TC
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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by 4942404F425148425650230 link=1274333836/43#43 date=1274522275
    Actually the service tech said it was pretty normal for an original. He did say the Premium Plus was much better.
    Yes- If it was a Giotto Classic (round gauge), the steam was pretty underwhelming and there is not much which can be done- short of a valve transplant which would be really tricky. Its asthmatic in comparison to later Giottos.

    A well set up Giotto Premium or Premium plus is every bit the measure of a boema on shot quality. Both have far better steam than the Giotto Classic. The GP/GPP wand remains the best wand I have ever used and perfect microfoam is simple.

    That said, if there is space for a commercial and you can look at it every day, go for it...

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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    tap tap tap......

    ...the grinder for $105.00 ?????........an absolute steal!

    Even if the other fellow had gone to his budgeted 200 and you went to 250, it would still have been a bargain and even at 300 it would have been a very fair price when you consider (as I have tried to show above), the cost of new replacement VS what new grinders you get for a similar price ie the relative values.

    But of course it has to suit your situation and be what you really want.

    If size is important, I can sell you a new Eureka Mignon on special at the moment. It has 50 mm grinding plates (same as Rancilio Rocky which is a very well thought of world renowned grinder), but with a far far superior method of adjustment (continuous worm "stepless") than that of the Rocky. But even at CS special offer it will cost way in excess of the above. They landed in the container last week. If I can help please let me know.

    Good luck in your search.

    A.

  47. #47
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    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by 4B7F687E65524E626B6B68680D0 link=1274333836/45#45 date=1274572853
    tap tap tap......

    ...the grinder for $105.00 ?????........an absolute steal!

    Even if the other fellow had gone to his budgeted 200 and you went to 250, it would still have been a bargain and even at 300 it would have been a very fair price when you consider (as I have tried to show above), the cost of new replacement VS what new grinders you get for a similar price ie the relative values.
    I understand what you said about the "value" of the Bo-Ema, but $200 plus was just the wrong amount of money at the time for something that was just too big. Even if I end up spending more later, Ill have the chance to investigate more and save more.

    But of course it has to suit your situation and be what you really want.

    If size is important, I can sell you a new Eureka Mignon on special at the moment. It has 50 mm grinding plates (same as Rancilio Rocky which is a very well *thought of world renowned grinder), but with a far far superior method of adjustment (continuous worm "stepless") *than that of the Rocky. *But even at CS special offer it will cost way in excess of the above. They landed in the container last week. If I can help please let me know.
    It seems to be protocol to discuss prices and such by pm, so Ill send you one :)

    Good luck in your search.

    A.
    thanks.



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