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Thread: Bezzera Minibar issues

  1. #1
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    Bezzera Minibar issues

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi all!

    Im new on this forum so hi to you all!

    i have a few questions about my bezzera mininbar.

    first of all its a machine with a direct connection to the water supply.

    Ive recieved it recently and i have a few questions.

    Can it run with a container lets say a bottle with water?

    when i turn it on now it doesnt make any noise and the pump doesn;t switch on. Is this normal?
    when i press the green right button it does pump water in the boiler and it starts to come out the group after a while.


    thank you in advance.

    this is the machine: [


  2. #2
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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    if the boiler is "full" when you turn it on, the pump may not run.
    the pump will run a bit if it needs to fill the boiler when you 1st turn it on.

    question for you, what sort of pump does it have ?
    a rotary (procon / fluidtech) or a vibe pump.
    lift the lid off yours and have a look
    google coffee vibe pump or coffee rotary pump for pictures if you dont know.

    both pumps can run of a "tank", rotary pumps are not really designed to and you need to take a few precautions to ensure the pump does not run dry but they can run off a tank

    vibe are pretty happy to run on tank....

    looking at the machine whats in the ""back" under that stainless steel lid? where the hole is?

    i have *Faema e98 and it has both a tank and mains inlet, i thought your might have a tank in there (or space)

    nice looking machine, it should make great coffee :) and welcome to cs

    ps you might need a new group head seal looking at the angle of your group handle

  3. #3
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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    ok, great, thanks for the advice!

    well this isnt the actual machine. the machine is the same as that one but my portafilter doesnt come that far right. I have no possibillity to look at the pump right now. But ill get back to you.

    btw How long does it take to warm up?


  4. #4
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    Quote Originally Posted by 4A4E444F45484D444E4F48210 link=1282298490/2#2 date=1282305710
    btw How long does it take to warm up?
    Depending on your element
    20 to 40 min

    But just to clarify -
    1] The boiler can come up to temp in aprox 4 to 8 min on the first cycle
    2] It can take 30 to 40 min for full operating temperature which includes the group head ect

    KK

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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    Looks like your also in luck....

    One of our CS Gods had one of these :)

    Mal *

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1153577525/0

    so any issues i am sure he will help out


  6. #6
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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    And....

    They are basically a compact BZ-35 using all the same parts, including a Procon Rotary Pump.... 8-)

    Mal.

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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    Thank you for all the reactions. ill carefully dissassemble it.


    Is it possible that the machine doesnt heat up when the autofiller is broke? is there a security check for the water level?
    i did not dare to leave it for 20-40 minutes because it had almost no water in it.

    ill read through the cs gods threads today.

    thanks again!

  8. #8
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    Quote Originally Posted by 60646E656F62676E6465620B0 link=1282298491/6#6 date=1282564540
    Is it possible that the machine doesnt heat up when the autofiller is broke? is there a security check for the water level?
    Yes the auto-fill feature is the safety feature of the On & Off cycle of the element

    If the water level in the boiler falls below the set point, it wont allow the machine to turn on the element
    A safety feature so it does not burn out

    KK

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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    you could consider manually filling the boiler by removing the anti vac valve at the top of the boiler and using a funnel fill the boiler to above the elements.

    I have don this in the past to stop the pump needing to "pump" for extended time and also prevents the element heating in a "dry" boiler...

    [s]I doubt your model (based on age) would have a "auto off" feature.[/s] strike that looks like i might be wrong there

    you should consider the dangers of the machine before attempting repairs, remember there is electricity to many of the parts.
    consider getting it looked at by a pro.... if you ruin a part you could waste more money than you can save by DIY....

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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    ill post some pictures as soon as i can.

  11. #11
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    Quote Originally Posted by 5E5A505B515C59505A5B5C350 link=1282298491/0#0 date=1282298490
    Hi all!

    Im new on this forum so hi to you all!
    Welcome "koendileoni"..... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

    Quote Originally Posted by 5E5A505B515C59505A5B5C350 link=1282298491/0#0 date=1282298490
    Can it run with a container lets say a bottle with water?
    Yes you can.

    You will need to fit a "Check Valve" (Non-return Valve) in the water feed line on the Upstream side of the Pump to ensure that the Pump is always primed. Its obviously better if it is at all possible to setup your water container above the machine so as to create a gravity feed for the water into the machine pump. If this isnt possible, somewhere on the same bench level with the machine is the next best. The least optimum location is to have the container below the bench but it is possible.

    Where ever you eventually site your water container, you will have to adjust the Bypass Valve located on the Pump Body itself, in order to achieve 9-10 Bar pressure at the Group against a Group handle with a Blind Filter fitted. Lots of info on the CS website on how to do this as most commercial machines use similar pump arrangements.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5E5A505B515C59505A5B5C350 link=1282298491/0#0 date=1282298490
    when i turn it on now it doesnt make any noise and the pump doesn;t switch on. Is this normal?
    If you are just referring to the Power Switch then yes, this is normal.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5E5A505B515C59505A5B5C350 link=1282298491/0#0 date=1282298490
    when i press the green right button it does pump water in the boiler and it starts to come out the group after a while.
    This is normal too but the Pump isnt pumping water into the Boiler but through the Heat eXchanger (HX) which is located inside the boiler and through which the Brew Water is heated during its transit through the HX.

    Hope this helps a bit mate.

    Fire in as many questions as you like and Ill do my best to help you out. I think there are another couple of CS members who own this machine and perhaps they might join in on the discussion too as time goes on.

    All the best :)

    Mal.

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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    Hi mal, tnx for the warm welcome!

    I have one important question. The machine doesnt seem to autofill.

    What is most likely causing this?

    i heard several options and im a bit scared that i need to replace the autofill unit.

    the sensor: appaerently you can pull it up a bit, but where is it located
    the sensor is broke (so new sensor).

    the autofill unit wires are loose

    the autofill unit is broke

    im an ass and im doing something wrong or seing a problem that aint there. ;D


    Greetings!

    Koen



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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    this is a water sensor probe, it will (should) be located in the top of the boiler but sometimes they go in the side / end

    you could remove it and clean it *and you can also gauge how far into the boiler it is and the depth of the water with it out.
    Then you can set it ensuring the water is above the elements etc




    possible sensor failures could be
    1. its in to far and is actually working
    2. probe is failing and creating the "circuit" and it will not fill
    3. the wire is off and creating a circuit by shorting out and it will not fill.
    4. something else wrong ?

    you could check the auto fill by
    turning off the power / pull plug
    removing the wire from the sensor and isolate it so it does not "short"
    turn on machine for 5-10 sec.
    see if pump turns on and starts to fill boiler
    turn off machine

    this would over fill the boiler if left to fill if it works so that s why a few seconds would be fine to test....


  14. #14
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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    Hi again Koen.... :)

    Leehams suggestion is spot-on.... 8-)

    In the case of this and other Bezzera machines Ive checked out, they use two Sensor Probes - One for Boiler Level Control and the other dedicated for Lower Level Safety Cut-Out to protect the Boiler Element. The latter probe is quite long and fitted such that it prevents the Pump from further operation and prevents the Element from powering up when the water level has fallen to a level about 1-2 cm above the highest point of the Element.

    If for some reason, the wiring to this probe has become loose or has a bad connection, then this will present the symptoms you are experiencing. It is also possible that the probe may have a build-up of scale which then prevents the sensing circuit from operating since too little or no current is flowing through it. This can best be rectified by removing the probe assemblies completely (with the Power Plug removed from the Wall Socket) taking note of which probe (with connection) goes where, remove the wiring connections and then undo the Brass Fitting of each probe completely and remove the entire assembly.

    Should Scale be the problem, then you will probably observe the presence of same which will then have to be cleaned off. Easiest way to do this, is to gently tap the Probe with a small hammer while laying it horizontally on something substantial (a Blacksmiths Anvil would be perfect ;D). This breaks the Scale up and then all thats necessary is to gently polish up the Probe surface again with some very fine Wet & Dry sandpaper or Steel Wool. You dont want to get too carried away with this though as if you scratch up the Probe surface excessively, youre just going to make it easier for Scale to get a purchase in future.

    If the problem still persists, it may be down to the type of water you use. Very pure water such as Distilled Water, Reverse Osmosis Water, Demineralised Water, etc presents an excessively high resistance to electrical current flow and will not allow the Level Sensing System to operate. Best water to use is properly filtered water using a filter system such as offered by several of our Site Sponsors, supplied from another Site Sponsor - Bombora. You could also use Rainwater with a little Tap Water added; several CSers do this too. If you really want to know more about what can and should be done with water for an Espresso Machine, theres heaps of info around the Forum about it and can be located by using the "Quick Search" feature in the upper R/H corner of the page.

    Lots of info about Water Filtering can be found here too...
    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1245022813

    If all of this still gets you nowhere, then it is most likely down to a faulty Black Box. Usually, these fail over time due to Electrolytic Capacitor failure and occasionally due to the Power Supply Transformer. One of our fellow CSers - AngerManagement - offers a service to repair these and if this turns out to be the problem, then you could make an approach to AM to see if something can be worked out.

    Anyway, see how you go with the other recommendations first and then see what results. All the best.... :)

    Mal.


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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    ok. i tried the cycle from leeham. i disconnected both wires as switched it on for 5-10 seconds.

    the machine doesnt make any noise.

    is the autofiller broke?

    the water is use is normal water so it would work fine i guess.

    whats the next step?

    greetings

    koen

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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    i just discovered that the pump leaks as well.... this is a bit to much trouble . i think iss send it for service at a professional

  17. #17
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    Quote Originally Posted by 42464C474D40454C464740290 link=1282298491/15#15 date=1282736908
    i just discovered that the pump leaks as well.... this is a bit to much trouble . i think iss send it for service at a professional
    This is a sensible idea

    Where do you live Koen ?
    As you may have a sponsor close to you

    KK

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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    I live in utrecht. The netherlands. know a very well renomated coffee repair shop, which also sells machines and coffee. I always buy my coffee there. but any good suggestions are welcome.

  19. #19
    A_M
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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    Quote Originally Posted by 52565C575D50555C565750390 link=1282298491/17#17 date=1282739112
    I live in utrecht. The netherlands. *know a very well renomated coffee repair shop, which also sells machines and coffee. I always buy my coffee there. but any good suggestions are welcome.
    Interesting... Know a few people out that way ;) But all IT based :-[

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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    indeed interesting, well ill send it to repairs. Thank you all for the tips and tricks.!!!

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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    HI all,

    i try again to show the pictures of the blackbox. hope it can be repaired.


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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    front


  23. #23
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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    as you can see i decided to try to solve it myself, a new box costs a lot of money, lets try this first!

    I really need the adres of the guy who repairs these things...

  24. #24
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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    Any genuine electronics tech should be able to repair this for you. They are really quite simple.....

    Mal.

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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    Quote Originally Posted by 664B4F434E220 link=1282298491/23#23 date=1301580533
    Any genuine electronics tech should be able to repair this for you. They are really quite simple.....

    Mal.
    And there in is the issue these days as more and more are either in Design OR Board jocks as it becomes harder to find parts and work with Surface Mount.

    Such is life...

    Now where was that black smith as I need a new carving knife ? Opps IKEA ;D

  26. #26
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    Re: Bezzera Minibar issues

    Quote Originally Posted by 210E0705122D010E0107050D050E14600 link=1282298491/24#24 date=1301617276
    it becomes harder to find parts and work with Surface Mount.
    Work-arounds for alternative parts can often be accommodated and I think this board is a little retro for SMDs.... ;)

    Mal.

  27. #27
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    I have same Minibar which recently had to repair the boiler after a technician brake it. Currently the boiler is installed and clean almost like new.
    The issue I have is the back solenoid opens for a sec and disconnect not enabling to fill the boiler.
    I have tested the pump, the solenoid, the heater and the relay - all good.
    When start the machine the pump is running non-stop, heater is not starting - filled the boiler manually.
    Any recommendations? Thanks.

  28. #28
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    If you're 100% sure the boiler is full, you can ground out the boiler fill probe to see if it starts heating. To be honest though, it sounds like the control board is not correctly wired.

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    Thanks. Yes 100% the boiler is full. The probes board has no burns on it - however it does not functioning as well for the water level at the water container.
    Can you refer me to a control board wiring and a test procedure? Thanks

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    I did some more testings:
    When disconnecting only the long probe (wired green) that connected to FA9 on the controller everything stopped.
    When disconnecting the short probe (wired green/black) connected to FA8 on the controller and water container is full (or touch the water probe on body) then the water starting to flow and the heater is starting.
    That mean something is wrong with controller interpretation what to do when the boiler is full.
    Hope this provide more information on the problem. Thanks

  31. #31
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    Hi again,

    I still think the board is fine, it's just not wired correctly. My guess would be that someone has mixed up the pump and the heater connections.

    So the machine is doing this:

    All probes grounded, thus heating should commence - control board runs the pump, but fill solenoid closed and heater off

    Safety probe and water level probe grounded, but fill probe open - control board runs the element and fill solenoid, but not the pump.

    ...make sense?


    *Please note this is just a guess, I don't have a wiring diagram for the BZ35/Minibar, I don't know the history of your particular machine, and your use of the above information is at your own risk. Please take great care when making connections at the control board and never do so under live conditions. If in doubt, refer the machine to a professional.
    Last edited by coffee_machinist; 5th November 2012 at 08:55 AM. Reason: added caveat

  32. #32
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Here you go...

    Mal.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    coffee_machinist likes this.

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    Thanks for the electric design, I will try to figure it out. I own the Minibar for 12 years, the only changes could be on the controller wiring - see attached picture.
    So far it looks fine but will check it again.
    Appreciate if you could look on the picture and let me know if you see any wrong wiring. Thanks, aregev
    If you can't see the picture you can go to http://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_rW...HJxRFdKNWd0UGs



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