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Thread: Another newbie in ECM Giotto (Classic)!! Need some suggestion^^

  1. #1
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    Another newbie in ECM Giotto (Classic)!! Need some suggestion^^

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi all,
    I was thinking to upgrade to HX/E61 machine for a while. I plan to treat myself as a graduation gift once I graduate.
    Lucky or unlucky, there is a 2nd (in fact, 3nd) hand ECM Giotto Glassic (10 yrs old) was for sale close to me (Charters Towers).
    I assume few of CSers must keep eye on this one.

    I have a bit negotiate with the price, not as bargain as JamesC and other Giotto owners I have read.
    But its close to my saving, they through in a boema grinder (which is even more terrible) as a* set.
    I am happy to have this 10yrs old classic Giotto, and I believe the machine itself must be more happy to have a owner who love it.
    (I saw this machine sitting next to a corner, and owner said they only use that 3-4 times after buying from a local cafe).

    Lucky, the owner try a bit effort to replace some consumables.
    (group seal, wand, gasket etc).
    So I dont have to do the semi-rebuild work like JamesC did.

    However, when I start to backflush and open it up, I believe it need a huge cleaning and descaling either.
    I read the topic about how to descaling the HX machine since it a different compared to boiler type.

    And I just like to confirm that "NOT" to use the normal citric acid, I should use the proper commercial descaler, right?
    Because I assume the machine is pretty scaled, maybe need a stronger descaler?
    Of course, I am going to remove the "mushroom" first to see how it scaled.

    Besides, anything I should be aware of? any suggestion?
    I am thinking about send the machine to a local machine service, but since I have send my three weeks living expense on this machine.
    I may have to tie my pocket a bit before I start to earn the really money.

    Cheers
    Colin



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    Re: Another newbie in ECM Giotto (Classic)!! Need some suggestion^^

    another photo



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    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Re: Another newbie in ECM Giotto (Classic)!! Need some suggestion^^

    Quote Originally Posted by 4B474441465F4D46280 link=1325307225/0#0 date=1325307225
    And I just like to confirm that "NOT" to use the normal citric acid, I should use the proper commercial descaler, right?

    Citric acid can cause the scale to come off in chunks and the chunks then clog up somewhere else. The commercial descalers will dissolve the scale, you may need to descale more than once to clean it all out if it is bad.

    Cant beleive they left the coffee grinds in the drip tray :o

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    Re: Another newbie in ECM Giotto (Classic)!! Need some suggestion^^

    Yes, triple action descaler or something like that will do. A good shop or service agent should have it. Try one of the site sponsors.

    Have you bought it yet? Check the boiler water by emptying it from the hot water wand with the machine hot but off. check it in a glass to see how dirty it is. Also look in the wand tips for scale.

    Also check the gauge - do you see it moving when steaming and extracting? If not it could be blocked. Check for leaks inside while its on. If it hisses when on the anti vac valve could be sticky.

    Leave it on for an hour or so and see how stable the pressure is assuming the gauge is ok. If it wanders too much you may have a faulty pressurestat.

    Finally, the control board has the potential to pop a capacitor rendering it useless. It may not happen but if it does, have a spare few hundred bucks in your pocket.

    The Boema grinder is quite good and capable of going very fine so you wont need another if you can put up with its mess and looks!

    Hope that helps. We Giotto owners are a friendly bunch :)

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    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    Re: Another newbie in ECM Giotto (Classic)!! Need some suggestion^^

    Welcome Colin as a new owner of an old ECM Giotto. They are fun machines for sure! :)
    Check the shower head was also replaced. The shower head and gasket should be around $20 all up anyways.

    I just did a chemical back-flush and a normal descale with cafetto after Christmas/Pre-New Year and what difference it has made yet again. Highly recommended to all my fellow ECM Giotto owners who have not descaled for the last 6 months since their major manual descale. Lever is smoother and machine back to its peak again.

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    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Re: Another newbie in ECM Giotto (Classic)!! Need some suggestion^^

    Quote Originally Posted by 5D555D5A5056340 link=1325307225/3#3 date=1325337521
    We Giotto owners are a friendly bunch

    and good looking ;)

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    Re: Another newbie in ECM Giotto (Classic)!! Need some suggestion^^

    Thanks all for warm welcome.

    @trentski
    The drip tray stuff is coming from the backflush....
    It really scare me when I saw all the thing coming.


    @ iaindb
    I bought that already...
    I spent a while to read through most the article about 2nd hand ECM giotto.
    I quick check most of the issue already.
    Luckily, I did not have the ticking noise from faulty control board, but I will keep some money in my pocket for the impromptu accident.

    @saoye
    I had the descale tablet when I bought the EM6910.
    Today, I run the descaling protocol, I almost shit in my pants when I saw amazing particle come from the water wand.
    I have finished the descale and start to use water, but there are still certain amount of particle comes out even after 20 times wash...

    I will go to get another descaler tomorrow to fight with this out of caring boiler...


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    Re: Another newbie in ECM Giotto (Classic)!! Need some suggestion^^

    Quote Originally Posted by 7C70737671687A711F0 link=1325307225/6#6 date=1325417293
    The drip tray stuff is coming from the backflush....
    keep backflushing with cafetto until its clear. You may need to grease the lever - usually running a few shots of coffee (for down the sink, not for drinking) will help after heavy cleaning.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7C70737671687A711F0 link=1325307225/6#6 date=1325417293
    I have finished the descale and start to use water, but there are still certain amount of particle comes out even after 20 times wash...
    Yes, descale it again, using the proper triple-action stuff. If its bad, let it soak in the boiler for longer - even 30 minutes. Keep running the descale / wait / rinse routine until theres no chunks left. Take off the steam and hw wand tips and clean them out as scale will get stuck in there. If youve got chunks coming out youll probably have to take out the mushroom and clean out the cylinder manually.

    :)

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    Re: Another newbie in ECM Giotto (Classic)!! Need some suggestion^^

    I backflush them another few times (full boiler).
    There are still some chunks comes out from the hot water. (like photos attached).
    Should I disassemble the whole boiler and have a citric acid bath?
    Because when I keep searching for the descale, people suggest a heavy acid bath may needed for a strong scaled boiler...

    I am not keen to do that, but better than regret?

    Cheers
    Colin



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    Re: Another newbie in ECM Giotto (Classic)!! Need some suggestion^^

    mine was dirty like that when I first got it - and cloudy. I did two descales. The first one I used a litre of descaling solution, and the second one a couple of days later I used 2 litres of solution plus I left if for longer each "soak".

    After this I had to flush it with about 10L of water before it was "clean". I did this over the next few days of making coffee, by emptying the boiler fully after each use.

    If you dont use the hot water wand, this wont affect the taste of your espresso because the brew water doesnt mix with the boiler water.

  11. #11
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    Re: Another newbie in ECM Giotto (Classic)!! Need some suggestion^^

    Definitely need two goes with descale. I descaled twice in one sitting almost 6 hours all up. It certainly should be free from "chunks". I didnt do a citric bath. Did you take the mushroom out?

    by the way, Im not sure the descale tablet from the 6910 is suitable for a deep descale.

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    Re: Another newbie in ECM Giotto (Classic)!! Need some suggestion^^

    Thanks, iaindb and saoye.
    Then I assume I just keep flush until there is no chunk.

    However, today when I just keep doing the flush, I found there is some steam came out from a valve which connect to boiler.
    After check the part catalog, the name is "Vacuum breaker valve", part number:C219903151 (mine is Giotto Classic, which plus will be A21990560).
    The problem is after few "full filled with water and flush" cycle.
    There is some water come out from this valve.
    At beginning, I though I just fill with too much water, but after put back the probe (boiler level probe), the water is still coming out from this valve.

    I can not understand why the valve start to works faulty since I did not do anything (except descaling).
    I am worried if I need to order the part to replace this valve.

    I wonder if possible one chunk stock between the valve?
    Any suggestion?


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    Re: Another newbie in ECM Giotto (Classic)!! Need some suggestion^^

    I just sort out the leaking vacuum breaker valve problem.
    After google around, found few information at Home-Barista.

    I took the breaker off and sunk into the descaler liquid for 20 mins.
    After put it back, it works fine now.

    The current task will be cleaning/flushing the chunks out.
    I might stop by the local coffee shop to get a proper descaler (Cofetto Retore?) next day.

  14. #14
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    Re: Another newbie in ECM Giotto (Classic)!! Need some suggestion^^

    Since I took the vacuum breaker off and been lazy.
    I just plug in the pipe to tap water.
    Let the tap do the flush job for me.
    From the result, looks not too bad. ^^




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    Re: Another newbie in ECM Giotto (Classic)!! Need some suggestion^^

    Its also known as the "anti-vac" valve, and yes you found the other way to clean it! You should remove the level probe until water comes out the open steam wand. As the machine is on, the water will heat up and because its so full it will come out of any open hole - such as the anti-vac, so even though you replaced the probe its not unusual for water to keep coming out from it. I stick some old towels in there while descaling.

    You must use the correct descaling solution - if you use the wrong one, as stated chunks can break off and get stuck in places - such as the E61 heat loop. You dont want this!

    The hose into the boiler is fine for flushing the boiler but it wont flush the group heating loop.

    Looks like youve got a nice room to play there - is that a classroom of some sort?

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    Re: Another newbie in ECM Giotto (Classic)!! Need some suggestion^^

    I went to the local coffee shop, the descaler they have are not Cafetto.
    I might order from the site sponsor.

    The space I use now is the lab of our school.
    It belong my supervisor and my office is just next to it.
    So I do have plenty of space to work on my machine and there is a fume cupboard to make sure now chemical residual.

    Now I am looking for the polish method now.
    I have search some thread.
    Autosol. Silvo, brosso seems are suggested.
    I have tried brosso this morning, not works well.

    I may bring the panel to the professional polish shop.

    ps. And I just found I spell wrong JamesM into JamesC, sorry James >_<.



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