I wonder what a ball-park price might be $2.5-$3K?
I like the styling. Very retro with lots of nice curves and shiny metal. 8-) 8-)
It looks like Bezzera have stepped up to the plate with their new top of the line home machine, the Galatea Domus. Specs include a 2l boiler, vibe pump, 4l water reservoir, boiler pressure gauge and of course the E61 group. The machine can also be plumbed, but they will be adding a rotary pump for the plumbed version sometime later....
Chris from Barazi said hed have the first machines in sometime in May. So theres time to save...
Going from what I have seen of Bezzeras build quality, this is going to be one very nice machine, both externally and internally. Little touches like to rotary on-switch, which disables the element for boiler filling are usually only found on commercial machines. Bezzera also use two water level probes; one for the auto fill and the other a low water sensor that cuts out the element if the water level drops too low. This extra level of safety is uncomon on most machines.
Ill be checking her out when she arrives. But for now, heres a pic.
I wonder what a ball-park price might be $2.5-$3K?
I like the styling. Very retro with lots of nice curves and shiny metal. 8-) 8-)
Is there any significant difference in steaming ability with this machine compared to say a (typical...?) 2 group commercial machine Sparky.
And why is the E61 group so sought after compared to the standard looking one on the commercial machines?
Steaming: Yep. The Pav along with other commercials outguns the 2l boiler quite a bit. The big difference is that usually a large commercial will have enough wattage to hold the steam pressure, where as these smaller machines cant hold the same pressure during steaming. Also the huge steam reservoir of a commercial compared to these machines makes a large difference.
In practice though theres no need to go to such large staming capacity. My BZ35 with the 2l boiler was a steaming demon with a 4 hole tip. It takes about 8 sec to texture the milk for a single. In contrast the Pav takes about 5 sec and throws the milk around so violently it almost left the jug... ie I prefer the BZ to the Pav for small quantities of milk.
As for the E61 group: sex appleal and consumer demand. Im no real fan of them though for a couple of reasons. The shower screen is almost impossible to remove without removing/damaging the group gasket. That means you dont do it that often. On the BZ I used to remove the shower screen on a weekly basis and clean it and the dispersion block back to shiny and new. On an E61 you have to trust that the back flushing chemicals do the job.... and there it is. Trust. I dont. Thats one of the reasons I got the Pav, as it uses a screw to attach the shower and dispersion block, unlike the traditional E61.
Otherwise, the big plus for the E61 is the preinfusion chamber that eases the pressure up to the full 9 bar, rather than slamming the puck. Its like the difference your bum would feel after riding a mountain bike for 8 hours with or without suspension.
Pre-infusion isnt essential, but it makes puck preparation easier,as it is more forgiving of operator error. This is a big plus for the E61 IMO. Other commercials have pre-infusion, but usually not using the mechanical chamber like the E61, but rather using mains supply pressure to wet the puck for a period prior to engaging the pump. The PI in these machines wont work using bottled water though. (another reason I bought the Pav)
All the other features are found on most other commercials, such as a thermosyphon group heating loop and flow restrictors to get the heat loss (group idling temperature) just right. Mind you, most E61 machines dont have flow restrictors fitted in any case (but the Pav does - another reason I got it).
Other aspects of the E61 (ie large thermal mass- giving great thermal stability) are no different to any number of commercial groups, and so not a great arguement for thermal stability at all.
Bottom line is that people like the look of it and the mechanical pre-infusion makes it more forgiving of operator errors.
Thanks for taking the time Mark. They do look really sexy thats for sure. What you say about cleaning the screen has to be spot on. Even on my little EM6910 the backflush (with chem cleaning tab) gets rid of a lot, but even after that you can remove the shower screen, then the inner screen and then unbolt the brass bit and you can still see tarnish on all 3 that can be cleaned off with a toothbrush etc easily.
BTW..do you service these things Mark, or is it a pass time?
Latin Translation: domus - house, home, residence.
A Major Domus. But is retro a passing fad? Im not entirley sure....
The E 61 group, BTW, quite apart from all fantastic intricacies, weighs a shade over 4 kilos --- thats a lot of mass to hold heat and smooth over thermal fluctuations all around it.
thats a heavy bit of kit!
The only negative is little kids I understand...they can burn apparantly with a quick touch. The manager at Barazi in Bris told me that when he demonstrated a machine pre EM for me.
Yes, they stand proud of the frame, saying "touch me" to bystanding kids (and adults) and are very very hot.
Yep, just a hobby. Ive got about 4 machines in various states of disrepair. I love tinkering with these things.Originally Posted by ozscott link=1173411744/0#6 date=1173424016
The steam tip is stepped similar to the sunbeam....lots of milk crusties just waiting to build up there.
Surprised it doesnt appear to have a cool touch steam wand for the price; otherwise I cant see the point for the ill-fitting bit of black plastic insulation on the steam wand reminiscent of the $200 thermoblocks...
I was under the impression that the cool-touch design was under a ECM patent ?? :-/Originally Posted by Greg Pullman link=1173411744/0#13 date=1173530624
Seems not, Matt- Expobar are using them on the Minore IIOriginally Posted by Matt G link=1173411744/0#14 date=1173575488
Can one of these four machines be fast-tracked off the bench to keep you in coffee while you ponder your next move on the La Pavoni? Seems that now is not a good time to be selling the Bezzera otherwise :(Originally Posted by Sparky link=1173411744/0#11 date=1173436025
But its like a carrot that keeps me going. If I was using the BZ, Id be much slacker about getting it fully restored.
Yep the steam wand is the same as the ones on the BZ99/02/35. A chrome plated brass unit. These steam wands take the standard M10 female threaded steam tip, so you can experiment on the best for you. I found the 4 hole Bezzera tip to be awesome. Bezzera prosumer machines are now shipping with a 3 hole tip. Im not sure which one is on this unit.
I do like the stainless steam wands though. Maybe a Giotto wand could be retro-fitted. Ill check on that.
Heres an update: This discussion has found its way back to Bezzera in Italy and they are considering a cool touch wand for the machine. Although I must add that the steam wand that is fitted is ball jointed, so the addition of a cool-touch wand is not that big of a deal IMO. I realize that some people are fussier than me though. So lets cheer Bezzera on...
The first shipments are due in about 3 weeks and are already sold out. Im not sure when the rotary pump model will be announced, but this is the really exciting option for this machine IMO.
Ive also had a stickybeak at the commercial big brother machine, the Galatea 2 gr. WOW! It is one nice looking machine, with lots of fiber optics piping blue light to a glass plate with the Bezzera logo on it. The fit and finish is absolutely stunning. If the Domus is only a fraction as good looking as this machine, it will be a major showpiece in any kitchen.
Dont like the position of the switch down near the drip tray. Other than that it it looks very similar to many of the machines in this price bracket.
Looks being the operative word. Ill have a poke around inside one and report back. But going on the experience Ive had with Bezzera machines, Id expect the internal build quality to be a step above most other offerings. But well wait and see.
The Bezzera Domus Galatea is finally here!
First ever demonstrated unit in Australia has landed at our door!
We invite CS Members to inspect the machine, pull few shots and tell us what they think!
Few first observations:
1. The Steam Wand has been modified and is longer than what appears in the picture. Ball joint, easy to use, great microfoam at first try
2. The machines feet has been modified as well, from black rubber to stainless steel round elegant shape, with a rubber base. Complementing on its overall elegance and make it very stable on the bench
3. Easy to pull out, big 4 litre water tank, large cup warmer, and extremely elegant finish of metal of the drip tray!
Detailed review will be posted mid next week.
Take some photos?
microphone? you mean microfoam?
The machine looks real nice:)
It comes with its own Karaoke Machine ;)Originally Posted by Coffee Kid link=1173411744/15#22 date=1178169883
That was a 3 seconds post ....couldnt wait to get the message out there...
You may be confused a bit Coffeechaser, the Karaoke part is with the Isomac La Mondiale, have you ever seen the machines side speakers? we did try playing music while pulling a shot, but I guess it does only what it suppose to: improving the air circulation inside and stabilizing brew temperature... :)
I might be driving my daughter to work on Saturday so will take you up on the offer top play with it.
With a new toy to play with I cant blame you for not wanting to be on the computer too long to post. We all have those bad typos everynow and then. All in good humour.Originally Posted by Di Bartoli link=1173411744/15#24 date=1178175404
A nice looking machine indeed.
Ofra very kindly let me pull a few shots this afternoon- thanks so much- its a nice machine. Didnt really have time to get a good shot happening, not-quite-two-year-old made things a bit tricky. I did notice I couldnt get the PF into the group the first time I loaded it- guess the dosing Im used to for the Giotto is too much for this baby. Id like to have another play, maybe if Im good theyll let me on Wednesday when I go pick up Giotto... ;)
Sorry I missed you Michelle, I was there in the morning but left just after 11.
Its a shiny new beast and Renzo let me stretch some milk.
It seemed to work so easy compared to the problems Ive had with mine lately but it did give me some clues as to where Ive gone wrong.
When do we get a review on this one with pics? :P
yeah, im also waiting for it.
Got to play with this for a few hours at the recent latte course at Di Bartoli. At first, it seems similar to the Giotto and as far as coffee production goes, I didnt notice any difference between the machines. Dont forget though that Im pretty much a novice!
There are some very distinguishing features with the Bezzera Domus - whilst the Giotto has a great chrome finish, the finish on the Bezzera is definitely superior. Its not so much a matter of quality, but attention to detail and further complexities of styling. An example of this is the curved sides compared to the folded metal sides on the Giotto.
At first, the angled valve taps felt uncomfortable to work with, though I think this was more to do with my being accustomed to the setup on the Giotto than ergonomics.
The Bezerra also has larger feet than the Giotto, making it more stable when locking in the PF. It also comes with a 4-hole steam wand compared to the Giottos two - personally, I liked this though one obviously needs to pay a bit more attention as the 4-hole wand speeds up the milk texturising process.
Im not sure of the RRP but understand that the Bezerra sells for a little more than the Giotto, and I can understand why - its a great machine.
I dont have any pics but you can see it on the Di Bartoli website.
would the E61 Group on this machine be made by Bezzera or do all similar E61 machines outsource the Group from one manufacturer ?
Di Bartoli and 2mcm are on-line now - if they look up perhaps they could answer this question?Originally Posted by hotdog link=1173411744/30#33 date=1181107806
There are a variety of e-61 groups....For example, expobar is eb-61. Giotto and BFC (Diadema/Makin et al) are subtly different and Vibiemme is different again.
All follow the same principles but there is variation. I would expect that most are outsourced but to individual company specs.
What would be some major differences of the variations of E61 or are they all about the same that not much can be distinguished?
Originally Posted by Coffee Kid link=1173411744/30#36 date=1181210535
There are differences in shower screen and height, dispersion plate, restrictors, group seal thickness and other proprietry bits. Bottom line is that theyre all subtly different....
I had a quick look at the Bezzera at Di Bartolis tonight. In fact out of the whole range on display it was the one that drew my eye the most. It has a very big bling factor to it. I realy like the slight retro styling too. It also seemed to dwarf the Giotto a little as well which seemed to make it that little more appealing ;) If I were to be considering upgrading, this machine would definitely be on my very short list. Miss Silvias days may be numbered....Originally Posted by Dennis link=1173411744/30#32 date=1181049275
Ive had a chance to see one in action and what impressed me was how quiet they have made the vibe pump. Its all in the mounting, but this thing was as quiet as my rotary at home (mind you my rotary isnt as quiet as some). Certainly pump noise shouldnt be an issue with this machine...
I agree the fit and finish of this machine is superb. You wouldnt want to put this next to an expobar in the same showroom... ;)
Renzo let me have a play with this machine as well and its now gone to the top of the list as the eventual Silvia replacement. Build quality and looks really are something - I reckon the Giotto also has trouble competing.
Oh really? :-? Its whats in the cup that counts. I have no doubt that the Bezz is a good machine- Ofra and Renzo wouldnt sell it if it wasnt- however, the Giotto has the runs on the board and for good reason....Originally Posted by Idler link=1173411744/30#40 date=1181538699
Yeah; its pretty funny that people devote pages and pages to comparing any statistic that has a number on it, which might not even have any bearing on whats in the cup, but very little of the discussion around prosumer machines - on any forum - actually revolves around taste. And I suppose that there are a number of good reasons, which I wont list; suffice it to say that if youre happy with the machine that you have, what more do you want? ;DOriginally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1173411744/30#41 date=1181548304
Surely part of the reason why the Giotto has so many runs on the board is because ECM have been marketing them more actively than other machines have been marketed, and for longer, because it looks cool and because the machines that are out there simply havent broken down much?
Its also funny how on the US/Canadian boards the Giotto doesnt feature anywhere near as much. Funny thing marketing.
Yeah; that is kind of wierd. But I suspect that its partly to do with the distribution network - in the US, the Giotto carries a fairly hefty premium over the more commonly distributed machines and I have never seen a post mentioning that ECM commercial machines are used in the US and Canada, whereas here they are quite popular (at least in Syndey, near ECM HQ where Peter "magic wrench" Cairis, ECMs fantastic tech, is just a car trip away).Originally Posted by Sparky link=1173411744/30#43 date=1181818845
"Its whats in the cup that counts."
Couldnt agree more. * I tried shots from both the Giotto and Bezzera - couldnt really tell any difference (probably down to my lacking palette). *My comment re Giotto was in relation to looks and ease of use only - a personal thing obviously but with these machines Id suggest its often a deciding factor. * Im sure Renzo will chime in at some stage with his detailed description of the construction differences between the Bezzera and other machines.
Agreed Ron- It would be great to have actual OZ specs confirmed because they are often unique. If/when the time comes to upgrade, have a look at the Vibiemme as well. Stunning finish and full of high quality and often commercial bits. Im still amazed they jammed a 2.7L boiler in it :o.Originally Posted by Idler link=1173411744/45#45 date=1181859701
Bottom line though is that at this end of the market, almost all machines do the job extremely well...It comes down to choosing the compromise set that sits most comfortably with you. Enjoy the journey!
One of the usual Bezzera hidden features is the use of two boiler level probes. One is for the autofill function (standard on most HX machines) and the other is a low level element shut-off which is added to protect the heating element during occasions where the boiler is bieng filled or for what ever other reason the water drops to a level where the element can be exposed.
Bezzeras also use a purely electronic water tank level sensor, rather than the more common machanical contraption that is more prone to failure. These are just some internal goodies that arent generally apparent from the outside.
well ive purchased a new domus galatea off of di bartoli which should be coming my way some time next week when stocks arrive so Ill keep youll posted and do a detailed review when it lands on my doorstep!
Great buy there atcg 8-),Originally Posted by askthecoffeeguy link=1173411744/45#48 date=1186710067
Almost jealous ::)..... Dont forget to include lots of piccies with that review mate ;),