Results 1 to 27 of 27

Thread: Promac machines- What do we think?

  1. #1
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Promac machines- What do we think?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi all...

    I have the opportunity to add Promac machines to our range. There are two: a tanked model- the Promac Club PU/S and a Volumentric control model the Promac Club ME- which does not have a tank but will operate from a drum supply... Theyre heavy at 36kg *:o.


    Specs look good with 4 litre copper boiler and 1700W element and they run on normal 10 amp. Im pretty certain that theyre a rebadged Rancilio Epoca.


    Pricing is circa $2k for the PU/S and about $2.8k for the Club ME....

    Thoughts??


  2. #2
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    4,512

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    From someone who has very, very little experience:

    - they look well-finished
    - the pressure dial looks small and awkwardly located
    - I like the steam wand on the r/h side! Does it swing out to the right or is it a ball valve?

    Would be happy to leave some brochures for you where HN/Myers/etc display there machines ;)

  3. #3
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1173568551/0#1 date=1173570200
    From someone who has very, very little experience:

    - they look well-finished
    - the pressure dial looks small and awkwardly located
    - I like the steam wand on the r/h side! *Does it swing out to the right or is it a ball valve?

    Would be happy to leave some brochures for you where HN/Myers/etc display there machines *;)
    The wand is ball-jointed ;)

  4. #4
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    BRISBANE
    Posts
    1,998

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    Nice looking machine Chris, but in terms of looks only your other machines kill it.

    Cheers

  5. #5
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    Agreed Scott- price point is attractive though and competitive with new Bezzera at al....

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    604

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    Very tidy modern design. If the insides are as well finished and they perform well, id think they would sell, though appeal to a different market- the new Bezzera is great in the E61 style, but Bezzera sold well even before that. The same might be the case.
    Whats the service record of them like?
    Brett

  7. #7
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    Quote Originally Posted by telemaster link=1173568551/0#5 date=1173589497
    Very tidy modern design. If the insides are as well finished and they perform well, id think they would sell, though appeal to a different market- the new Bezzera is great in the E61 style, but Bezzera sold well even before that. The same might be the case.
    Whats the service record of them like?
    Brett
    Brett- I am just told that theyre a "good machine".

    Visually, componentry is exactly the same as that of the Rancilio Epoca- so Id expect identical service and performance

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,946

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1173568551/0#0 date=1173568551
    Thoughts??
    The price for the EE version is nice, but have you had a chance to play with them? It looks like they might have the same group as the silvia and the s20 or whatever its called. On the other hand, Carl Sara, the NZ barista champ has an Epoca at home and he reckons its pretty good.

    Cheers,

    Luca

  9. #9
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    Havent played yet Luca. I see a Silvia group as well....

    Im hoping to get one to have a look around in the next couple of weeks....

    Chris

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,946

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    It might be worthwhile trying to get in touch with Carl about them before you get to have a try.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sydney Oz
    Posts
    503

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    Hate to ask a dumb question, but is it HX?

  12. #12
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt G link=1173568551/0#10 date=1173592737
    Hate to ask a dumb question, but is it HX?
    Yes Matt ;-)

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sydney Oz
    Posts
    503

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    Errr, if it has a Silvia group I guess not... :-/ Thats what I get for getting distracted while typing.

    Edit: Thats what I get for not waiting for the answer ;D

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    604

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt G link=1173568551/0#12 date=1173592856
    Errr, if it has a Silvia group I guess not... :-/ Thats what I get for getting distracted while typing.

    Edit: Thats what I get for not waiting for the answer *;D
    Doesnt work that way,
    Matt- a selling point for Rancilio Silvia and ECM Botticelli is that even though they are large single boilers, they have the same group heads as models in the parent companys commercial lines.
    Brett

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,946

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    Quote Originally Posted by telemaster link=1173568551/0#13 date=1173598238
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt G link=1173568551/0#12 date=1173592856
    Errr, if it has a Silvia group I guess not... :-/ Thats what I get for getting distracted while typing.

    Edit: Thats what I get for not waiting for the answer ;D
    Doesnt work that way,
    Matt- a selling point for Rancilio Silvia and ECM Botticelli is that even though they are large single boilers, they have the same group heads as models in the parent companys commercial lines.
    Brett
    But selling points are only ever comparative. The Silvia and the Botticelli are heads and shoulders above other single boiler machines because other machines have inferior groups. For the group to be a selling point for the Promacs, we would have to know that it can hang with other groups available on other machines in the same price range, which is why it will be important to Chris to actually use the machine ;P

    Cheers,

    Luca

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,176

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?


    Given they are commercial machines (4 l boiler) and the volumetric has a rotary pump. Id rate them very highly for home use. They certainly wouldnt have any competitor in that pricepoint. Im not sure why Rancilio rebadge their machines and sell them cheaper. The question Id ask is what corners have been cut? The answer may be none, or it may be the use of plastic thing-a-me-bobs... Who knows. It certainly would be worth getting one for a test drive though.

    As for the shot quality, thats always a very subjective criterion. My guess is that itd be a moot point for most people other than the diehard espresso enthusiast for which nothing short of a La Marzocco would be considered appropriate.

    Very interesting machine.

    Thats my $0.02

    Cheers,

    Mark.

  17. #17
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky link=1173568551/15#15 date=1173616657
    Given they are commercial machines (4 l boiler) and the volumetric has a rotary pump. Id rate them very highly for home use. They certainly wouldnt have any competitor in that pricepoint. Im not sure why Rancilio rebadge their machines and sell them cheaper. The question Id ask is what corners have been cut? The answer may be none, or it may be the use of plastic thing-a-me-bobs... Who knows. It certainly would be worth getting one for a test drive though.

    As for the shot quality, thats always a very subjective criterion. My guess is that itd be a moot point for most people other than the diehard espresso enthusiast for which nothing short of a La Marzocco would be considered appropriate.

    Very interesting machine.

    Thats my $0.02

    Cheers,

    Mark.
    Hi Mark- the only competitor I can think of is the Iberital Handy (aka LAnna). Tank + volumetric + rotary pump + 4L boiler and 2400W element in an e-61 machine....Its under 3k...


  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,176

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?


    With the rotary pump and solenoids and a 2.4 kW element, the
    Lanna should be a 15A machine. Whereas the Promac is a 10A machine.

    Also you can have a choice of an E61 (solenoid variant without pre-infusion) or a Silvia group (with easily removed shower screen).

    And finally theres the choice between an Italian built machine (Promac built by Rancilio) or a Spanish machine.

    So plenty of choices and its good to have choices.

    Cheers,

    Mark.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    604

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky link=1173568551/15#17 date=1173682699
    With the rotary pump and solenoids and a 2.4 kW element, the
    Lanna should be a 15A machine. Whereas the Promac is a 10A machine.

    Also you can have a choice of an E61 (solenoid variant without pre-infusion) or a Silvia group (with easily removed shower screen).

    And finally theres the choice between an Italian built machine (Promac built by Rancilio) or a Spanish machine.

    So plenty of choices and its good to have choices.

    Cheers,

    Mark.
    Even though Im not currently in the market for a new machine, if I were, the Promac pair here would very much interest me. Gleaming bling is very pretty, but for those of us who have had to polish it, it can be a pain. I think, if marketed right, they could do very well, on the assumption that they are in fact rebadged Rancilios or similar quality.
    Brett

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,946

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky link=1173568551/15#17 date=1173682699
    So plenty of choices and its good to have choices.
    Good for us to have choice, but Id imagine that the last thing that Chris would want to do is to stock a machine that no-one is interested in!

    Cheers,

    Luca

  21. #21
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    Quote Originally Posted by luca link=1173568551/15#19 date=1173697113
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky link=1173568551/15#17 date=1173682699
    So plenty of choices and its good to have choices.
    Good for us to have choice, but Id imagine that the last thing that Chris would want to do is to stock a machine that no-one is interested in!

    Cheers,

    Luca
    Absolutely Luca!

    Whether I range this machine will be determined by performance and value for money. I hope to grab a demo machine soon and hope you may like to come and help me run it through its paces....

    Chris

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,946

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1173568551/15#20 date=1173697296
    I hope to grab a demo machine soon and hope you may like to come and help me run it through its paces....
    Do you even have to ask?

  23. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    89

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    Hi Chris,
    If the Promac is a rebadged Epoca - Id hope that it lives up to Rancilios quality standard.
    The Epoca evolved from the S20 range of machines that as far as I can tell - are bulletproof.
    I have the S27 - that you got a glimpse of at the first course you ran at Veneziano.

    The 4l boiler is nickel plated copper, the panels are easily removed for service access, they use a procon rotary pump, gicleur pressurestat, copper lines throughout and the electronics seem reasonably well shielded.

    The techs at Mocopan say that board failure is very rare and that the S-series machines are still sought after as (like Cimbalis) they will soldier on forever with minimal maintenance. Full commercial quality in something that can just be liveable on the kitchen bench.

    Hot water is drawn direct from the boiler - no cold water mixing - so it can get very spluttery when you use it.

    Steam power - stock 3 hole tip and running at 1.1 bar - is pretty strong.

    The only downside - assuming the basics are the same - is that the commercial group is heated by conduction - no thermosyphon.

    You also have to be spot-on with your dose/tamp as the lack of preinfusion/non E61 group hits the puck with the full 9 bar straight away and channeling occurs so much more.

    I cant comment on temp stability or how hot they may get/run as I havent logged the temp curves yet.

    Frankie

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    2,165

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    Only point Id add is the spouts seem very close to the drip tray, which looks like fitting anything other than espresso cups would be a challenge. If its aimed at the home market they could expect a fair percentage of milk drinkers who would want a larger mug to fit, and unless its the photo I think people would be disappointed.

    As far as it being Rancilio heritage, check out the water tank cover and portafilter handle in the first photo. I think any Silvia owners will recognise em!

    Presume the volumetric pad is programmable?

  25. #25
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    16,771

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    The only comment I can make, is that since you already sell the Ibertal LAnna and given that there are obvious differences between the machines, there are also obvious similarities. You would then have two machines in the showroom that would probably appeal to the same type of customer. Since you have other high quality and distinctive machines on show, wouldnt this be a good reason to settle on either the LAnna OR the Promac, but not both :-?.....

    Mal.

  26. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    114

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    Chris, I guess you decided against stocking the Promac machines? Any reasons why?

  27. #27
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: Promac machines- What do we think?

    Quote Originally Posted by shawn_low link=1173568551/15#25 date=1206591247
    Chris, I guess you decided against stocking the Promac machines? Any reasons why?

    Lack of interest Shawn ;-)



Similar Threads

  1. Help! 05 Promac PU/S
    By RhysJ in forum Brewing Equipment - Pointy End ($1500-$3000)
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 30th June 2011, 09:44 PM
  2. Promac Club ME
    By bnotman in forum Brewing Equipment - Extreme Machines ($3000+)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 22nd May 2011, 01:45 PM
  3. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 19th May 2011, 10:48 PM
  4. Early PROMAC Single Group
    By tmid in forum Brewing Equipment - Extreme Machines ($3000+)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 6th August 2007, 12:35 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •