Anyone familiar with this machine? They are quite prevalent here in NZ, many of the coffee shops are dealers for them. Expensive, but they sound like the goods (yes I have read the reviews).
I note that the boilers pretty huge (2.7 litres!). I can see the upside for steaming power (1800W!) and stability, but might that make it a bit slow to get warmed up just for a couple of cups?
Oh, and Ill have a tanked one in stainless please... ;)
I had a look at the Domobar Super when I was out at ****** coffee (they had a semi-disassembled model on show so you could see the guts of them). They do look good with a nice big boiler and performance that would, I imagine, be in a similar league to other mid-range HX machines.
Firstly- Id check boiler size- CG reviews state 1.9L boiler....Price more than an Expo. eb-61 lever but less than a Giotto. Problem in Oz is that nobody sells em so proprietory bits might be hard to get and exxy...
I can find absoolutely nothing re reliability and not much in the way of dealers either....Could be a worry...Keep in mind that just because it looks similar, does not mean it is the same. Machines are more than the sum of their parts....
I have to say that the fact that ****** Coffee is the only Australian dealer by the looks of it could be cause for concern. Having seen the way that the distributorship of Gaggia has changed, it may not auger well for long term ownership prospects. Im not too sure about NZ though - they may be better supported there.
Still, a Domobar non-Super still looks good value for me (who will have a $1k limit...)
Everywhere Ive seen quotes the large boiler size, including the official brochure I have and their website http://www.lavibiemme.it/ ... Maybe the 110V version is different to deal with the lower power supply?Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1175237291/0#3 date=1175498983
Locally (NZ) its in the same price ballpark as a Rocket E61 (aka ECM Giotto), spec for spec (ie with inbuilt tank and stainless finish optioned), but the Rockets are in short supply...
Lack of reliability reports may be interpreted as a good thing, normally people dont make complaints if things are running well, but make lots of noise when things go wrong...
Certainly the one in ***** seems big.
Too Much Coffee is a good resource for Vibiemme stuff...
It looks like Vibiemme have finally renovated their web site. It looks like theres been some improvements on their machines. I did notice one thing different with their implementation of the E61 group. It has a different gicleur chamber. The standard E61 unit screws in place as one piece, where as this one is attached by two allen bolts. That means the seals etc are non-standard. Im not sure how or if it would affect the performance though. There has been some mention of the Vibiemme group being less forgiving, but this is just hearsay from posts going back many years.
If what Mr Google shown me is true, this is a great bargain at $1,900 - unless I am missing something here. Looks like serious competition to the Giotto.
What do others think?
Just been chatting to a supplier, and discovered that the the Domobar Super is available with black powder coat sides for a lower price, or all stainless. Also choice is lever action, un-dosed electronic (sami-auto) or fully volumetric dosing varieties. Quite a choice.
Its a good buy if you live within 5km of ****** (which I do fortunately). But interstate servicing may be difficult and there are other better supported machines out there for similar money...
****** are the Australian importers, but there are other dealers around Australia that stock Vibiemme. They just come through ******. I presume those dealers do mos tof the servicing themselves. For example the Domobar Super is available here in Brisbane.
Vibiemme is also quite an old company that goes back to around the time of the original E61 patent.
Ah okay then. Thats reassuring...
They actually OWN the E61 patent! (currently)Originally Posted by Sparky link=1175237291/0#11 date=1175561118
Pictures here http://www.espressocare.com/InsideVibiemme.html show the outstanding workmanship. I am now in serious quandry as I was about to pick up a Minore 2 and now I am wondering of the VDS would be a better option for similar money.
Call me querky, but I just dont want to be a "me too" Giotto owner - two of my friends have Giottos :)
What is attracting me to the Minore is the digitally adjustable temperature controller and the ease of adjusting the pressure, as well as the large drip tray and of course the dual boilers.
The VDS has undoubtly has higher quality of construction, but doesnt offer the afore mention features (except for the large drip tray).
Also which VDB is best:
- manual lever action E61
- push-button E61 (operates like the Silvias switched pump) cost same as lever model
- volumetric dosing model (buttons for single/double shot; 1 or 2 cups)
- all ss or black sides (saves $300!)
Thats a good link. The build quality seems to be top notch. Very nice.
I dont think the E61 patent is still in operation. Thats why there are a lot of E61 equipped machines around now. Vibiemme did own the patent while it was active and were making commercial E61 machines for years. There seem to be two main designs of the E61 group, and they only differ subtly; the Faema/Arete group (the most commonly copied and implemented design that is compatible with variants made for example by La Pavoni) and that found on the Vibiemme. However, Im not sure if there is any real difference in performance.
Id go for the lever group as it has the pre-infusion chamber. Otherwise, the electronic 3-way group is just one amongst a gazillion thermosyphon heated groups.
I like the Minore II for the technical aspects. Theres no use arguing the dual boiler vs heat exchanger machine. They are different concepts and appeal to different people for different reasons. I prefer the aesthetics and build quality of the Vibiemme, but I do like the ability to electronically set the brew temp on the Minore II. Ive heard of reliability issue with the Minore II though....
Matt: *If youre in Auckland, head into *****, as they distribute the Vibiemme Machines, and the owner is pretty good about letting you have a good play with the machine before purchasing one. *
On the *reliability, never heard any complaints or problems with them. *In NZ, theyre pretty well supported, and very easy to get parts for. *
Giotto vs. VDS... *gimme the VDS any day... * *seriously* wouldnt bother with the SS side panels tho, theyre easily purchased at a later date if you decide to display the unit on the coffee table in the middle of your lounge.. :P
*This and previous posts in this thread edited by mods- Members please keep in mind that sponsors pay to keep CS alive and to have sales access to you. We would appreciate if you can support them. Andy is very easy to find if any of the suppliers mentioned would like to be sponsors ;)..
I hope that you are going to go back through all previous threads and delete any mention of other machines which sponsors dont sell also. </sarcasm>
Chris, I respect you support the forum, but were talking about a product you (nor any other sponsor) dont even sell, and in a market you dont distribute into (though Im aware you can sell into).
Banning discussion of competing products is not the way to gain support, or encourage open and honest discussion. On the other hand, convincing me why you dont deal this product (for example) would.
Drew, I will PM you to discuss...
I see my posts mentioning the Australian distributors of VBM stuff have also been censored...
There is a thin line between defending the legitimate interests of the forum and censorship, and in my opinion, these actions crossed it. It is not like I was mentioning the name of a competing supplier and saying Dont buy from the forum sponsor because xxxx has it cheaper. No forum sponsor stocks the model in question...
Therefore 2muchcoffeeman, is discussion on the availability of machines henceforth to be limited to models sold by sponsors? If so, this not the sort of forum I want to hang around.
Very good points, Samuel and Matt- however, the conversation regarding the Vibiemme is valid whether the non-sponsor supplier is mentioned or not. They appear to be good machines but the knowledge base for them here is thin. Most members realise that Google is their friend and there is no difficulty in finding suppliers and making value judgements about any machinery. This includes where to spend their hard-earned readdies regardless of whether the brand is provided by sponsors or not.
Multiple references to non-sponsors may also be interpreted as overstepping a thin line and becoming a direct and commercial plug and that is not appropriate.... As previously mentioned, Coffeesnobs would not exist without the support of 16 suppliers who generously donate time, expertise, product and resources- but most of them baulk at providing subsidised advertising for other retailers...The mods think a little support for those suppliers is reasonable and Andy welcomes appropriate new sponsors.
In the meantime, lets steer the thread back on course. The way to evaluate a Vibiemme would be to run it against a known e-61 machine and do a blind comparo....Any volunteers?
Okay... let me put an end to this... I did NOT intend to stand on anyones toes/feelings... It was an honest mistake based on Matt being in NZ, and our sponsors/suppliers being in Australia.
Nothing more or less. Not an intended plug (although I can see how it might be interpreted that way).
For all those wondering, my Jura was purchased from Gilkatho, who I would happily purchase from again, as theyre great to deal with (yes, this is a plug :P)
Now... can we cut the snarking, and get back to the coffee? My caffeine-stream is getting a little clogged with blood!
Id just like to add my support to what Chris has said [smiley=thumbsup.gif].
All of us enjoy enthusiastic discussion and comparisons between one machine and another regardless of who sells it and whether or not a sponsor is one of the retailers for said machines. It only becomes a problem when members start to plug retailers who are not helping to sponsor CS and therefore keep our great little coffee community alive. We have an obligation to support those people who are footing the bills to keep this site running, namely, our sponsors.
So, its simple really..... If you enjoy access to one of the best coffee forums in the world, then DONT provide free plugs for non-sponsors. Dont know how much more simple it can be stated :-?
Nemo,Originally Posted by Nemo link=1175237291/15#21 date=1175996093
Hi and welcome to CoffeeSnobs...
Firstly the links were removed in line with the site rules - only the site sponsors products can (and should) be promoted.
But more importantly, as I recall they were NZ sites. The machine is almost unknown here (especially in WA - where I live as well).... Support would be a nightmare.
There are other equally good, even better machines which the site sponsor sell - and even though they are "over east" they provide excellent support for us in the West....
I suggest you give them a try.
The domobar super is actually not unknown here, I have read other posts in this forum (use search option), and have some experiences of my own so I will respectfully disagree with someone above.....should I be given a direct choice between a domobar super and giotto, Id take the giotto every time.
And in that case there are other machines sold by site sponsors here that I think compare very very well with the giotto, which then broadens the discussion somewhat to include other models.
And as we are really only dealing in personal opinions, I may as well continue and say that if I were given the choice of a domobar super, the giotto and some other machines sold by site sponsors here, the domobar super would be equal last with one other model both of which I personally, simply wouldnt take home.
The long and the short of this, all these are really only personal opinions that are influenced by the good and the bad experiences that people have had with their their own machines in the past so, am afraid that in the end you have to take this into consideration, and choose your own poison hehe!
Id suggest going with a brand and model of machine that is well supported by a good trader in your own area.
For me, at the present time that would be either a VBM or a La Scala.Originally Posted by Curmudgeon link=1175237291/15#22 date=1176294529
Can you please elaborate on why you dont like the VBM? Performance? reliability? support? aesthetics? etc...
My personal experience & opinion in reply to your question. *Performance fine but, very noisy/vibratory, with very rudimentary standard of design and build resulting in poor reliability with substandard level of support. Cheaper in price than other machines but, considering the previous statement together with the appalling aesthetics in total, my wife is happy for me to spend more as she has to live with the equipment in her kitchen long term (so it needs to look much better), and Im happy to spend more if it translates to long and trouble free service over time.Originally Posted by Matt King link=1175237291/15#23 date=1176354689
The other machine you were comparing to is also rudimentary under the bonnet but streets ahead of it in reliability and looks and therefore (in my opinion) worth the extra dollars. And that (as mentioned in my previous reply) places you in a position to look at the other machines sometimes written about in these pages, that compete head to head with the better of the 2 machines you mentioned, on an equal or better (in my opinion) basis.
Err, did I mention this is only my opinion?
All considered opinions are most welcome ;) :)
It also might be worth finding out if there have been any changes in their manufacture. The latest incarnation may well be a very different beastie compared to some previous incarnation. So that may temper some opinions.
I guess the best advice is to try and compare before you buy.
[QUOTE=Curmudgeon link=1175237291/15#24 date=1176379797]hehe, my wife prefers the aesthetics of the VBM over the ECM... ;) horses for courses. Thanks for the additional info.Originally Posted by Matt King link=1175237291/15#23 date=1176354689
The VBM certainly looks like a great machine. Make sure you measure the dimensions of the machine before bringing it home. It is longer than the Giotto (and Expobar) so may not fit on your counter (it wouldnt fit on mine!).
Hey Chris, now that I see youre dealing these, how about volunteering? 8-)Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1175237291/15#18 date=1175667619
Id be delighted to do that at the showroom on Saturday arvo- say 1.30?....Lets run them through their paces....Email me to express interest if youd like to come...Originally Posted by Matt King link=1175237291/15#29 date=1179654105
I am *:o with the machine....The pressurestat was set at 1.3 bar on receipt- too high. With a few tweaks on my bench, this machine is going to give the Giotto a serious run...Internal build is AMAZING...Almost everything except the vibe pump is commercial stuff. I think its worth the extra spend....
Is there an option for plumb in with rotary?
I think it would be also good if it can have a shoot out with domobar, giotto and galatea :)
OK, you pay for the flights and Ill be there! :) j/k Look forward to seeing your opinion.
So, if I could get one of these for less than a Giotto youd say it was a good deal?
Yes, and its cheaper and smaller.Originally Posted by Coffee Kid link=1175237291/30#31 date=1179656078
Oh, and if you want to see the build quality, VBM have a little video on their website (though it appears to be of a variety of machines, based on the part sizes)
Yes Matt- the black sided ones are less than a Giotto- Vibiemme put a pretty big premium on stainless steel. I believe that Vibiemme shot quality is outstanding. I dont like the stock tip because the porting is terrible. It needs lead free, cadmium free fill for the holes and then for them to be re-drilled.
Serious? plumb in rotary is cheaper then vibe? wow!Originally Posted by Matt King link=1175237291/30#33 date=1179657373
I dont think that plumb-in are coming to Aust at present but the should be able to be obtained in the future via special order. I am pretty certain that the plumbed model is still vibe pump- but will check and report back....Originally Posted by Coffee Kid link=1175237291/30#31 date=1179656078
How does vibe pumps suport the mains pressure?
so how did ya go 2mcm?
Matt- It didnt happen...
Nevertheless, theyre both fantastic. The Vibiemme is great but Im unhappy with the wand tip porting (this will change) and they are noisy before they come to full pressure...I think some deadening material here and there will help... The componentry is impressive and when you think of a black sided lever one at under Giotto price- its a compelling argument.
The Giotto- I still love it and my pimped ones produce amazing espresso and have huge steam. That said, theyre terrific outa the box.
Bottom line is that you can choose the one you like and each is really overkill for most domestic environments anyway...Id be happy with either on my bench. If it was my $$$$ at them moment, Id probably grab a steel sided vibiemme- simply for the novelty factor because its different....but...Id buy my mum a Giotto ;).
Domobar home improvements
Ive placed a piece of high density acoustic insulation (spec to 200 deg C) between the top of the Ulka pump and the boiler, which were touching. Also a bit between the side and the top - now the machine is normal sounding.
Mine had a 2 hole nozzle (some come with 4) and I blocked off the rear, resulting in absolutely stupendous frothing ability. Didnt use any solder, just marked the front of the nozzle, then unsrewed it and blocked the REAR hole with a small piece of (clean) whipper-snipper plastic strand, which I made pointy with a Swiss Army knife. The way it became a miniature wedge shape, which I inserted from the inside, outwards. Then just trimmed the protruding bit slightly, and Hey Presto - the perfect nozzle!
I have also drilled a 10mm hole on the VMBs bum so I can insert a flatbladed screwdriver to adjust the OPV, which I reduced by a whisker. Now I get "god shots" whenever I use fresh coffee beans and the micro foam is top class, and kickin ass!
I too have bought a VBM and am just getting used to it. I lack time to practice.
Is it possible to take some photos of your improvements ( insulation and 10mm hole) next time you have the sides off please?
So its a vibe pump?Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1175237291/30#36 date=1179658104
Also just realised the E61 group is quite different. It looks more squarish and the top is a cap sorta thing and giottos is a nut
Confirming that the plumbed only model is vibe at present. The body of this machine is shallower as the tank is deleted...
One would think that a retro fit rotary pump would be feasible as Expobar are doing with the Minore II....but perhaps the deeper body of the tank model would be required to fit in a rotary pump...
Would be a super impressive machine at that point!
All- I received this link for a review of the Domobar Super. NB that US spec. is a 1.8L boiler...We get a 2.7L one...
its currently at the top of my list, in black though as the steelversion is too pricey
Id get the sides chromed! 8-)Originally Posted by takeaim link=1175237291/45#45 date=1181720114
FYI all, pricing of plumbed vibe models is the same as standard tank models. Plumbed are available via special order...Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1175237291/30#43 date=1181492844
Just letting you know that Di Bartoli has taken the La Vibiemme aboard and we have the Domobar Super Lever Black (2.7 Lt Boiler) on the bench operative!
Youre all welcome to drop by an play, comparing looks and performance between the Minore, Giotto, Bezzera Domus Galatea and the Isomac Mondiale!
Nothing is more helpful in determine the right machine for you as a hands on experience....
has there been a review on this machine?
Partnered with the grinder it looks stylish as hell, but how does it perform next to the likes of
MinoreII,Giotto, Bezzara etc ?
Or is there really a stand out leader?