Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: VBM domobar supers boiler size

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    31

    VBM domobar supers boiler size

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I took the shelf of my VBM off today, tried to see what it looks like inside. I realised that boiler seems to be a bit too small to be 2.7 liter. I took out the ruler and measured the dimentions, it is *6.75cm in radius an
    d 15 cm in depth. After some simple calculations (pi x R^2 x d) and i got 2147cm^3, so to convert it to liter (1 liter = 1000cm^3), it is 2.147 liter.... Are my calculations right?
    Does the specified boiler size include the volumn in the piping too?

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    459

    Re: VBM domobar supers boiler size

    Something I thought about too but never measured it... You should also subtract boiler element and thermosyphon tube volumes too...

  3. #3
    Ren
    Ren is offline
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    12

    Re: VBM domobar supers boiler size

    Hi Freddiman,

    I have a feeling the VBM comes in two different versions; possibly a US (120V 3.8L) vs Aust/NZ (240V 1.9L).

    In my travels on the internet I believe the size is more like 1.9L. Also water tank size is not 5L (as quoted by some), but more like 3.8L.

    Ren

  4. #4
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: VBM domobar supers boiler size

    The specification sheet supplied by Vibiemme for the current 240V Australian model states a 2.7 litre boiler and I would have thought that Vibiemme might know what actually goes into their machines? :-? ;)

    There are earlier versions of the Domobar Super around in Australia. There were not imported by ECA and can be identified by old style handles and some other internal differences. These may well have smaller boilers. They also run really hot and need pretty large cooling flushes. IMHO, the older ones are nowhere near as nice to use as the new ECA specification.

    2mcm

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,946

    Re: VBM domobar supers boiler size

    I remember reading somewhere that the VBM boiler is the standard part used on the giotto as well. This may or may not be true, and it could also be true overseas, but not here. Im sure that a few side-by-side photos would resolve that particular point.

    In terms of measuring the boiler capacity, wouldnt the simple way to do it be to drain the boiler (maybe give it a descale if youre going to go to all that effort), weigh the machine, fill the boiler, dump any excess water in the reservoir and weigh the machine again. The weight difference wont be equal to 2.7L because there will be empty space in the boiler for steam, but youll get an idea. Presumably youd just divide by 0.7 or something to get in the ballpark.

    Freddiman, did you subtract the thickness of the boiler metal in doing your calculation?

    EDIT: Ill also make the same point that I have made many times before: Surely the quality of the coffee that the machine produces is more important than its specifications? :-? Unless youre talking about suing for misleading and deceptive conduct :P

    Cheers,

    Luca "likes facts" C

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    31

    Re: VBM domobar supers boiler size

    I have a feeling the VBM comes in two different versions; possibly a US (120V 3.8L) vs Aust/NZ (240V 1.9L).
    From what I have read from the CG and HB website, I think the version in the US is with 1.8 boilder. However the ECA website, http://www.espressocompany.com.au/vi...obar-super.htm, states that the Aussie version should be with a 2.7 boiler. However, from my measurement, I found out that my VBM is only with a 1.8 boiler..... I have measured the water tank too, it is 20cm x 20cm x 9cm, so that is around 3.6 L ....

    Is there anyone out there who measured the boiler size for their VBM?

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    31

    Re: VBM domobar supers boiler size

    Freddiman, did you subtract the thickness of the boiler metal in doing your calculation?
    No, i didnt. I measured the dimension from the surface of the boiler, so i guess if you subtract the thickness and the actual heat exchanger part in the boiler, the boiler size might come to a 1.8...

    Well, the performance of my VBM is great, and I just got it like a month ago and it was said to be the most updated and latest version....

  8. #8
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: VBM domobar supers boiler size

    Quote Originally Posted by luca link=1189784495/0#4 date=1190012255
    I remember reading somewhere that the VBM boiler is the standard part used on the giotto as well. *This may or may not be true, and it could also be true overseas, but not here. *Im sure that a few side-by-side photos would resolve that particular point.

    In terms of measuring the boiler capacity, wouldnt the simple way to do it be to drain the boiler (maybe give it a descale if youre going to go to all that effort), weigh the machine, fill the boiler, dump any excess water in the reservoir and weigh the machine again. *The weight difference wont be equal to 2.7L because there will be empty space in the boiler for steam, but youll get an idea. *Presumably youd just divide by 0.7 or something to get in the ballpark.

    Freddiman, did you subtract the thickness of the boiler metal in doing your calculation?

    EDIT: *Ill also make the same point that I have made many times before: Surely the quality of the coffee that the machine produces is more important than its specifications? * :-? *Unless youre talking about suing for misleading and deceptive conduct *:P

    Cheers,

    Luca "likes facts" C
    No Luca, the current VBM boiler is way bigger than the standard Giotto boiler- I should know...God knows I have seen a few of em. Giotti have Nickel plated brass. The ECA spec. Vibiemme has a brass boiler which is bigger than the 2.5L boiler in my Veneziano. As for old imports by the previous importer they may well have had a smaller boiler. All I know is that theyre not a patch on what Peter "brainiac" Caris has achieved with current big boiler model. Nevertheless, even 2L is overkill for home.

    Bottom line is can the CSer make great coffee consistently? A spec. sheet only shows whats in the machine- and has nothing to do with how its screwed together nor how well it does the job!



  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,334

    Re: VBM domobar supers boiler size

    Well said. Even a machine with a 2L boiler and a rotary can get its ass pumped by some little ass E-61 shiny bling bling...could very well be poorly engineered for all you know (not that Im saying this is the case)

  10. #10
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    2,648

    Re: VBM domobar supers boiler size

    All well and good, but specifications in ALL machinery, from computer printers to cars, mean everything to me when I go shopping around.

    If I want a powerful car, Im going one of 220 Kw is more likely to meet my needs than the 120 Kw one at the same revs.
    (Especially as the smaller the car is, the more the propensity of TV ads to boast a "powerful" engine")

    I can probably rest assured that a 3000 Watt element in my prospective coffee machine is going to have a faster heat up time, faster recovery, than a 1600 Watt one. Even though both produce the same quality of brew.

    I can probably rightly assume that a 400 Watt grinder is going to perform more effortlessly than a 200 Watt one. And if I were the owner of a busy cafe Id like to know that the hopper has a 1 kg capacity rather than 300 grams. Less refills.

    Those soft-sell ads of products do nothing for me: I want the facts, Mam, and the facts are specs.

    The specs are telling in their own right.... and they are of much value in making comparisons between products as well.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,498

    Re: VBM domobar supers boiler size

    Quote Originally Posted by robusto link=1189784495/0#9 date=1190035021
    All well and good, but specifications in ALL machinery, from computer printers to cars, mean everything to me when I go shopping around.
    Robusto....

    Whilst I agree in general terms.... this is ONLY true if all relevant specs are taken into account!

    If I want a powerful car, Im going one of 220 Kw is more likely to meet my needs than the 120 Kw one at the same revs.
    (Especially as the smaller the car is, the more the propensity of TV ads to boast a "powerful" engine")
    Good example where it doesnt necessarily work! Performance (I take it thats what you mean) is about power/weight ratio and drag coefficient... which are all in the specs. the Kw of the motor is only part of the equation..... a 120Kw motor in an aerodynamic mini will outperform a 220Kw in a big Yank Tank with heaps of drag.

    I can probably rest assured that a 3000 Watt element in my prospective coffee machine is going to have a faster heat up time, faster recovery, than a 1600 Watt one.
    True if the volume of water and heat losses are the same.. But Ill bet a Silvia will heat up a lot quicker and recover faster than my hulking 2 group if I only had a 3000W heater.

    Unfortunately whilst you can make valid decisions based on specifications - that will only happen if all relevant specifications are fed into the equation and each weighted appropriately to provide the answer... (of course assuming they have been provided truthfully).... When this is done.... often you get surprising results!

    That 400W grinder ( quoted as input power) might well not perform better than the 200W (rated as output power)..... and because the 400W has a low duty cycle..... might only be able to be used 20% of the time...... so it isnt actually going to perform more effortlessly - unless you are only making an occasional cut...... in which case it might actually be both a cheaper and a better option.

    Interpreting specifications (just like legal arguments) are a mine field..... and without a total understanding can lead to an equally disastrous outcome.

  12. #12
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    2,648

    Re: VBM domobar supers boiler size

    JavaB, I somehow guessed that someone was going to respond with aerodynamic coefficients and power to weight ratios. ::)

    As you said, you agree IN GENERAL TERMS. And in general terms is the tone of my post.

    I think I can pretty much evaluate specs, put them into a context and make a qualitative decision. That is what its all about.

    And I think that if you are deciding on a commercial machine and look carefully at the 3500W element specification, you are not then going to be seduced by "Gee, Silvia has 1100W but it warms up quicker. Ill take that one." ::)

    But you would think twice if --by looking at the specs --- one commercial machine had identical boiler etc et etc etc and one was 3500W while the other was 2400W.

    I think reality dictates that a 400 w grinder is going to be pretty much a commercial one up to the task. Havent seen many Lux, Iberitals Sunbeams with 200 watt motors which are going to happily outperform in duty cycles big Cunills and Mazzers.

    think youll find that my "good example where it doesnt necessarily work!" is very much a good example in the real world where it DOES work. Cars are designed and made for a specific market grouping. And within those groupings specs farily much fall into line: weight, fuel efficiency, drag coefficiency, power. But by looking at the specs, you know which one will give you the edge over the other. Again, a Ford Forte buyer is not going to be seduced by the minis power to weight ratio.

    As I said: specs are meaninful in themselves, and in making comparative judgements. I think most of us are smart enough to know how to make a comparative judgement.

    I think you know you got my drift. And I think you know as much as I or anyone else how to make sense of specs.

  13. #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    13

    Re: VBM domobar supers boiler size

    Hi all,
    Just measured mine. I think the diameter of the boiler is 15cm. So my volume calc is as follows pi (3.14) x r^2(7.5^2) x height (15) = 2.65litres.

    Close enough for me. Given that the radius in the equation is squared a small measurement error in this drastically changes the volume calc.

    thanks - andy

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    171

    Re: VBM domobar supers boiler size

    EDIT: Ill also make the same point that I have made many times before: Surely the quality of the coffee that the machine produces is more important than its specifications? :-? Unless youre talking about suing for misleading and deceptive conduct :P
    I guess. But higher specs mean higher price and it would be nice to get what you paid for if only in terms of tech specs.

  15. #15
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: VBM domobar supers boiler size

    Quote Originally Posted by andy77 link=1189784495/0#12 date=1190501886
    Hi all,
    Just measured mine. I think the diameter of the boiler is 15cm. So my volume calc is as follows pi (3.14) x r^2(7.5^2) x height (15) = 2.65litres.

    Close enough for me. Given that the radius in the equation is squared a small measurement error in this drastically changes the volume calc.

    thanks - andy
    I measured one today and I concur...

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    31

    Re: VBM domobar supers boiler size

    I have opened the shelf up again today.
    Here are some photo that I took.





    the diameter of my VBMs boiler is far from 15cm.....


  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    167

    Re: VBM domobar supers boiler size

    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1189784495/0#3 date=1190011688

    There are earlier versions of the Domobar Super around in Australia. There were not imported by ECA and can be identified by old style handles and some other internal differences. These may well have smaller boilers. They also run really hot and need pretty large cooling flushes. IMHO, the older ones are nowhere near as nice to use as the new ECA specification.

    2mcm
    freddiman - did you read what Chris posted?
    Post a pic of your machine and im sure hed be able to tell you if it is the new version.
    Who did you buy your VBM from as theyve been quite a few on ebay recently, could be the older model being offloaded?

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    172

    Re: VBM domobar supers boiler size

    Measured mine and I must agree with freddiman, measuring from the welds (the internal diameter of the boiler) is 12.5cm, and the overall height (well length as it is mounted vertically) is 15cm, I get 1841.5 Minus the HX volume (no idea, just say 41.5cm3 ;)) gives us a good ol 1.8L boiler. Maybe closer to 2, but in no way 3.
    Hold a 3L milk bottle up next to the boiler and its about twice the size!

    Chris, I have no doubt it looks bigger than the Giottos bioler, but whats to say their boiler isnt a 1.2L (and overstating size is a common thing with boilers of this class of machine?)
    Maybe its more like a performance rating with these prosumer machines and the VBM gets to say it has a bigger boiler because it can take a bit more heat loss and recovers quicker than whatever they are comparing it too due to the element size.

    I really cant be bothered getting out the calc, but maybe if one of you engineers out there has nothing better to do have a play around with the numbers comparing it to a 1200w element.

    Anyway if I didnt take off the lid I would believe its a 2.7L boiler just due to its huge steaming power (I can easily boil a litre of water with it quite quickly, and once the pressure hits 1 bar and the element back on, it just keeps up (pressure stays the same) so technically I could keep steaming at the rate this machine does (180ml cold milk in about 8-10 seconds) for a few minuites untill the boiler has to refil and the pressure drops from the cooling.

    Lastly, if everyone else here could measure the dimensions of their boiler next time they have the thing open, and we can see if its just the VBM or most prosumer machines.

    It will be interesting to see how this one turns out.

    John.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    172

    Re: VBM domobar supers boiler size

    Takeaim, I got my machine off Chris around a month ago so I know it is the newer model.
    Inside it is identical to the photo freddiman provided.

    John.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    The Hamptons
    Posts
    290

    Re: VBM domobar supers boiler size

    What is this - Boiler envy? I bought a VBM this year: it makes great shots, superb steam. I couldnt give a toss how big the boiler is
    Dave

  21. #21
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    265

    Re: VBM domobar supers boiler size

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Dave link=1189784495/15#19 date=1190887189
    What is this - Boiler envy? I bought a VBM this year: it makes great shots, superb steam. I couldnt give a toss how big the boiler is
    Dave
    Hooray! Insert Lucas famous quote here.....


    David

  22. #22
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    265

    Re: VBM domobar supers boiler size

    Only difference would be heating element and the specifications for wiring (different currents).

    Dave



Similar Threads

  1. VBM Domobar super boiler temperature
    By Peterjf in forum Brewing Equipment - Pointy End ($1500-$3000)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 6th May 2013, 10:51 AM
  2. Volumetric? Boiler size?
    By kay in forum Brewing Equipment - Pointy End ($1500-$3000)
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 20th August 2009, 09:40 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •