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Thread: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

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    Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hey all,

    Not sure if this is meant to go in the other Milk thread or here, so feel free to move it mods.

    So Ive had my Minore since December last year now, getting deadly shots on it on a very regular basis, and not being a milk drinker I dont do it very often. On the times i do, for guests etc, I am very hit and miss. Even as I try the, seemingly, same technique twice, I get two different outcomes. My usual negetive outcome is too many small bubbles (not micro), on top and not a consistent silkiness all the way through, but hot watery milk. I know it is possible to get it good, I just dont seem to replicate it as often as I would like. Ive used other machines (commercial, and cheaper domestic) and I have better outcomes, more consistently. I have the no-burn steam wand, same as on the current Giottos with the 2-hole tip.

    I know there are a few of you out there who have these - so what are your secrets? The most helpful thing for me would be a vid and/or pics of angles you use, temp, timing etc. Size of jugs is helpful too. I get better results with the 600ml just. Smaller 300ml is v. touchy.

    Steam pressure is great on the machine so its a technique thing.

    Ive recently been working on how to orientate the 2 holes in relation to the jug. I get more of a whirlpool than a folding, maybe thats part of it.

    Cheers,
    YeeZa :-?

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    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    I put the cool touch wand on my Leva because I thought it would help (hole configuration) with my texturing.

    Theres no substitute for practise. When I was 10 hours straight on the Minore at last years Aroma Fest I was pretty bloody good by the end of the day.

    If you get hot thin milk there arent enough bubbles.

    I use the 300ml jug 99% of the time.
    Fill to a few mm under the spout mark.
    Sink the wand to one side to get a whirlpool happening then break the surface to get the "ch ch" happening.
    Youll see when the milk has increased in volume and then wand back in to finish heating.

    Im no expert either yet but I think the amount of increased volume makes a difference. Having enough time left to mix this with the rest of the milk by whirlpooling or folding before its hot enough is my gut feel on what makes the difference between thin/perfect/thick milk.


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    Senior Member fatboy_1999's Avatar
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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    Much the same as TG with my method.
    I also use the 300ml jug most often, but am equally comfortable with the 600ml these days.

    My main advice would simply be "no major movements".
    The difference in positions for stretching and heating and a good vortex are minimal.

    With the 300ml jug, the stretching is all done inside 10 seconds (for me anyway). Once complete, I then try to get the vortex going at a good rate for the remainder of the steam.

    I have had good results with folding as well as whirlpool.

    Perhaps try with just water to see where the best position for the vortex is for you.

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    Thanks guys, I knew I could count on both you two making an apearance ;). Ill give those both a try. I know when it comes down to it, its just practice, practice, practice. Ill keep working on the 300ml and just stick to that for a while.

    You guys always have the steam at full blast even with the 300?

    Ive tried it with the jug of water instead, but like I said, I feel Im doing the right thing, and sometimes I get it and other times I dont. Ive tried trying to keep the movement minimal, and then tried to sink it post O2-ing, with mixed and varied results..... I think prac is my only solution.

    Thanks for the tips!

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    since i have you expobar lovers on this thread...
    what are your quick thoughts on the leva/minoreII?
    i appreciate the differences in terms of hx v dua lboiler etc but wondering about overall performance?
    result in the cup?
    frame/shell quality?
    drain tray?
    steaming (with the no burn wand)?

    many thanks

    aaron

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    Senior Member fatboy_1999's Avatar
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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    Yeeza - Full steam even with 300ml jug - YES!

    Aaron - I love the Minore II. Admittedly, I have not owned any other HX to compare, but I find it does a great job.
    The result in the cup - certainly enjoyable. Hard to find cafe that compares.
    Frame/shell quality - Very solid. SS all around. Around 25kg of machine.
    Drain tray - huge.
    Steaming with the cool touch wand - no problems. Good to excellent microfoam on most occasions.

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    Gday Aaron,

    Yeah as far as the shots go, Ive got them consistently DEADLY. I almost surprise myself every morning at how consistent the different profiles I can get out of one bean. Having the temp controller is a big +.

    I did a little do the other night and pulled about 45 coffees in a row, and I never once felt like it was struggling. In fact, as it went on, I felt that is where it really shined. That surprised me. I dont think you could do that too often though, but its good to know it can cope.

    I have had a play on a few other HX machines, all are capable of terrific shots, but I found it hard to get them consistent, something only REAL time on it could do.

    The Frame is super solid - 2mm Stainless Steel. Compare it to other prosumer machines and youll see the difference. As far as finish though, its probably not on top. The edges can be sharp in some places. It doesnt have the flashy angles and curves of some of the other Italian HXs, but Expobar and WLL, were definitely going function over form (but beauty is in the eye of the beholder ;)).

    The drip tray is the best. I can pretty much empty my 2.7L water container into it without it overflowing. The drip tray cover does lean on the flimsy side though - no real difference to others. A wire-esqe one would be better as the liquid can sit on it instead of flowing through (kinda like the floor drain in the bathroom). The cup tray can be a bit noisy if you dont have any weight (cups, tamper, pfs) on it. Thats an easy fix though.

    The no-burn steam wand is great. The only downside is that when you goto another machine that doesnt have one, you know about it ;) Having both pressure guages is a help too, and the ease of adjusting the brew pressure without taking the hood off is tops.

    When it comes down to it, its great in the cup, great machine to play around with. For the price and the package you can hardly beat it. Depends what youre after though.

    YeeZa


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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    thanks guys.
    v helpful. ive only had a look at a minoreII at a loca lshop. looks great and love the fact that its not hx so no water dance flushing etc.

    i have heard about the final fit and finish not being tops but dont know if this is way up high on my priorities list.

    i also like the adjustability ot the minoreII which is what i think i would go for.

    yeeza -
    DEADLY shots eh?
    id love to try one...should i increase my life insurance before i do?

    FB - re microfoam - have u played on other prosumers that were easier to obtain microfoam?

    thanks alot again

    aaron

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    Quote Originally Posted by roknee link=1206509781/0#7 date=1206582032
    looks great and love the fact that its not hx so no water dance flushing etc.

    yeeza -
    DEADLY shots eh?
    id love to try one...should i increase my life insurance before i do?
    Aaron, it actually has a HX in it. Google The Brewtus Compendium and have a read of the pdf. Its a great description of how the Minore works. Instead of having to run a long cooling flush, flushing super-heated liquid, youre actually doing a shorter flush (than a normal cooling flush) to bring the grouphead up to temperature.

    Yeah the shots are DEADLY haha. Deadly=v.v.v.v.v.excellent. (IMHO ;))


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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    Aaron -
    Some time ago, I played around on the 3 group machines at William Angliss College, but I was just starting out with serious coffee at that stage, so its a bit hard to compare with now.

    I havent really played with any other prosumers. The Minore II was very much an impulse buy to step up from a Silvia.

    Have seen the Makin Maver and Giotto in use by other operators and both seemed to do a comparable job.

    Brett.

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    yeeza - yeah its a good review on home barista but i couldnt find the compendium in the users group!?

    and thanks fb
    did u get much out of going to WA tafe?
    would u do an advanced one now or do u think it was only helpful back when u were younger and innocent(ish)?

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    Quote Originally Posted by roknee link=1206509781/0#10 date=1206597187
    yeeza - yeah its a good review on home barista but i couldnt find the compendium in the users group!?

    PM me your email address and Ill email the pdf to you. Its a great read.

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    Aaron,

    I got a lot out of the day at WA, but a lot of it was to do with the fact that it was a specially put together day for the CS audience.

    Chris from Talk Coffee ran it and sort of merged parts of a few different courses together.

    I certainly thought it was worthwhile and helped my technique and understanding of how things work immensely.

    Would I do another one? Probably not unless I was considering moving into the coffee/cafe/roasting business on a more full-time basis.

    Brett.

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    Actually, here it is in the Google group, down the bottom there:

    http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus/files

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    Ive had the Minore I for about 36 months now. *No problems and still going strong.

    yes aesthetics are not as good as others and some of the edges could have been polished a little more. But as was mentioned before I think they went function over form in the design.

    I did a descale of both boilers last year and started doing a writeup (just havent had time to finish it). *Internals are all pretty solid and look to be well put together. *better than a Grimac HX I have.

    I have posted a couple of pictures of internals. *Sorry not the best, but the photos I took were more for the purpose of how I did the Descale.


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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    another




  17. #17
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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    a bit closer


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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    sorry I dont have pictures of the other side.

    Also the insulation is how it came.

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    Ive owned my Expobar a bit over a year now and still learning to perfect my techniques. Every shot, stretch and pour is an improvement on the last.

    I do have to admit, it take me awhile to get silky microfoam texture in my milk using the twin-holepin steam wand (comparing to other machines) but once I got it it was great. Found having a steady hand makes the difference.

    Yeeza, theres a great article on the Expobar Minore at this site http://www.home-barista.com/expobar-brewtus-review.html.

    The italians do make sexier machines, but the spanish go a great job in the mechanics and making them functional.

    Cant imagine I was ever considering the Giotto or Botticelli. Love the Expobar!

  20. #20
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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    I researched long and hard before deciding on my Leva.
    Remember its my first machine.
    I decided I didnt need or want the extra guage, readout or ability to change the temp a degree or two up and down.
    Im a bit old fashioned I suppose so the function over form suited me.
    I did think the legs were ugly but you do get used to them.

    Very early on Chris from Talk Coffee was able to order me some cup rails.
    These make a big difference to the ease of use as refilling the water reservoir is now easy.
    I recently purchased the cool touch wand from Renzo.
    I wanted it for the different tip.
    The cool touch was a bonus.

    Despite not being adjustable like the Minore and not having the extra guage and etc I am extremely happy with its purchase.

    YeeZas 45 coffees in a row is no surprise. I dont think I could yet (if ever) outpace this machine.
    Running out of water is the only thing that could slow it down.
    If it was plumbed in Id give up before it did.

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    Quote Originally Posted by YeeZa link=1206509781/0#13 date=1206598146
    Actually, here it is in the Google group, down the bottom there:

    http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus/files
    thanks yeeza ill have a read thru. the HB review def likes this machine! and by the sounds of it so do u guys. i love the fact that you can match different blends / SOs to fairly exact temps. im pretty sold on it and for me the only issue would be the not-quite-italian finish and style...old school like you TG, function over form... ;)

    thanks for the pics clinto. it actually looks pretty tidy inside eh?

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    Quote Originally Posted by roknee link=1206509781/15#20 date=1206616662
    thanks for the pics clinto. it actually looks pretty tidy inside eh?

    Yeah Roknee, its pretty neat. I popped the hood to try and tidy things up a bit (my electrician perfectionistic side coming thru), and didnt end up doing anything, except wrap some fibreglass sheathing around a few of the wires and tubes close to the boilers.

    I saw your other post on the other "CS WALLET MONSTER..." thread, and Id thought youd taken the plunge early ;D

    Itd probably be worth starting a Users group of the Expobar Minore/Brewtus/Leva(TG), Theres a few of us on here now.

    YeeZa

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    not yet yeeza.
    im cleaning up and replacing the pump on my latest purchase - a faema family, which sparky has been very helpful with.

    ill order on mon from pedro and hope to have some shots coming thru on wed!!! v. excited.
    a bit OT, but can u soak the PF in citric acid? its heavy - v. commercial but am worried about stripping off the chrome (which i assume) covering the brass pf


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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    aaron,

    ive got a minore I that I have had for about 2 years now, and it is still going strong....
    i am in caulfield, so happy if you want to come over and have a play.

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    Thats a great point.
    Aaron, same offer as krusty.
    Im in Wheelers Hill if youd like to come over and have a go.

    Brett.

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    hey Krusty and brett- thanks so much! v. generous offers, that i would like to take up.
    will PM soon!
    cheers guys
    i love this site

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    Good idea. Im all in for YeeZas suggestion for a CS Expobar owners discussion group.

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    Ok, so a quick update. The other day I went to the super market and picked up 3 x 3L of milk. 2 Full creams and a lite. I did some serious testing using the 300ml jug only, and Im finally getting some great results. Pity there was no one to drink all the milk haha. I probably had about 300ml of milk out of the 9lts, and they were just sips to make sure I was in the ballpark.

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    and guys - how do you think the minore / lever compares to a commercial machine in terms of stema performance? if someone mastered microfoam on a prosumer expobar, does that translate to easily working a commercial? (just interested, and partly wanting to work as a barista part time after my doctorate...

    aaron

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    aaron....

    well..... you learn to ride a bike by using training wheels, then take off the training wheels..... then relearn how to ride..... you then get a car.... and learn all over again.....

    A domestic single boiler = bike with training wheels (small boiler - 1 small steam hole)....

    A prosumer = whoops no training wheels (two maybe four holes and bigger ones)...

    A commercial = V8 racing car..... its all over before you know it!!!

    First few jugs when I started using my commercial I textured in seconds - over me, the machine and the floor!!!

    Did knowing how to texture help?.... well yep, I knew what I wanted.... just had to relearn how to get it!!! Now I can texture milk in a 300ml jug quite successfully - but that took a lot of practice..... and my previous experience didnt help that much.

  31. #31
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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    I spent a couple of weeks behind a commercial machine.

    I got the job on the strength of my interview.
    NO experience was not going to get me a look in until I showed the owner a picture of my Expobar and Macap.
    When he realised that was my home equipment he thought I was crazy but let me make him a coffee to demonstrate my ability.

    Well I tell you what, the Expobar has steam to spare for home but the commercial unit was so fast I almost overheated the milk.
    I was a bit nervous and forgot to put my hand under the jug.
    It was only a few seconds before I remembered and by then it was hot enough.

    So no comparison really.
    But the experience gained on the Expobar got me the job *and steaming milk on a commercial machine was not harder or easier.
    Once Id made that first jug I was able to allow for the difference between my machine and it.

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    cheers jb and tg
    i assumed that prosumer was fairly close to commercial steam-ability.
    but i guess not.
    its sounds like the difference b/w a holden commodore and an HSV more so than b/w a holden and an airoplane.

    aaron

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    I was used to the EM6910 so getting the FAEMA 2 group was a shock. When I got it the pressurestat was turned up to about 1.2 bar (cafe setting) - as a result the 4 hole tip devastated a 2 standard flat white quantity of milk in a couple of seconds! But use the big jug and a min of enough for 4 flat whites and it was was wicked. Even massive amounts - like a 12 inch high jug with a litre of mil in it is not a problem. I wound the pressurestat down somewhat and now it will still easily do the larger amounts but it is more controllable. I have also installed a 2 hole tip on the other steam wand for really small quantities (100mls milk for eg) that you just dont get down to in a cafe. It also means that a cooling flush is only small and only required after the machine has sat idle for a few hours - rare to see dancing water unless it has sat all night without a shot).

    Having said that I just took the EM on holidays and enjoyed texturing - I was in slow holiday mode so slower steaming was consonant with that!

    Cheers

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    and who, exactly in your household is normally puling shots at 2am?

    haha

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    As it happens my machine was running a tad low - I have upped the pressurstat back to 1.25 approx at the top of the cycle and now the shots sweetness has returned to its zenith - provided a 15 second cooling shot is pulled after a couple of hours sitting. Its milk texturing with the 2 hole tip on one end is a lot better with proper attention and I have not yet had enough orders to give the 4 hole up the other end a run, but judging from the steam coming out its a monster!

    Cheers

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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    Inspired by this thread I decided to whip out the ol 300ml jug and started practicing... I bought the jug awhile ago and on first use only produced puddle of bubbles so stuck to the 600ml to get my creamy silky microfoam. After a few goes it aint so bad now ::)

    I actually embarked on my coffee making journey using a commercial 2-group San Marino machine. After that experience, things just werent the same with my humble home Sunbeam machine. So got rid of it and went to straight to the Expobar! Took me awhile to get it right on the machine and must say, still learning but still a heck of a lot better than some stuff I get at cafes.

    Thundergod - interesting story there... I was actually thinking about doing some casual jobs at cafe/cart/events behind a coffee machine out of fun and satisfy my coffee obsession :D ... but didnt think anyone would bother since I have no cafe experience.

  37. #37
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    Re: Expobar Minore II Milk Texturing/Frothing Help

    Give it a go.

    Dont forget to take an A4 size picture of your Minore with you.



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