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Thread: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

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    Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi all,

    I have created this thread for discussion on the Rocket Giotto Premuim plus.

    Thoughts on Giotto Premium Plus
    Having had a great run on the demo machine with plenty of shots, I thought it was an opportune time to report some observations:

    Packaging:
    I am highly impressed with the change we have seen under the ownership of Rocket Espresso.

    The machine ships surrounded by high density corrugated foam/poly packing to protect it. All accessories are now contained in a tray packed above the machine. They are housed in cutouts to ensure that they dont move in freight.

    Whats in the box?
    Machine and accessory package containing double and single portafilters and baskets, a blind, and the usual plakky goodies- a brush, a crappy plakky tamper etc. The significant change here is the incorporation of a user manual. The manual is ring bound and actually makes sense! This will be of great use to beginners ;)

    The machine:
    There are a number of very significant changes.

    External
    The machine looks soooo much better than the old GP *8-). All panelling is mirror finish stainless steel. I believe that the Giotto is now easily on par with Domus Galatea which in my opinion has led the class in external finish.

    Notable are:[*]New funky brand plates front and rear[*]Cutouts in the top panel to locate the much thicker cup surround[*]Thicker? on/off switch. It feels better[*]Polished bakelite style steam and hot water wand handles and group lever[*]Dramatically better looking high polish drip tray and drip dray insert. The insert is drilled to match the holes in the cup warmer[*]Much better gauge- large, easy to read and round. I love the new gauge![*]Big commercial feet. These raise the machine off the bench and overcome the wobble experienced with the old Giotto. [*]The drip tray is still too small IMHO but there is now provision to add a drain unit for external drainage[*]No change to the tank. Its still easily filled via the removable plate on the top of the machine.[*]Powdercoat rather than painted chassis and acid etched markings on front panel (as of July 09)

    In use:
    The work done on thermostability seems to have worked beautifully. The machine is well calibrated and cooling flush is small or barely required. I used our Urban blend in the Giotto and the Domobar Super on our bench and found the shots to be terrific from both- though a small cooling flush was required on the VBM if it had been idling for a while. The Giotto is more forgiving but if you want absolute GRUNT, you will be shopping in VBM land....

    Milk texture performance has remained excellent with readily available dry steam- though the VBM has more pressure. The Giotto wand in my opinion is the best wand design in the class. I am unsure at present, but I *think* that our old thermostable Giotto may have a slight edge in steam pressure *:-/.

    The power light now also serves as a visual low water level alarm. It flashes when its time to top up.

    Internal:
    Tubing now 10mm- much larger than the old machine. This is a massive improvement
    Comercial Sirai pressurestat will be longer lived than the previous domestic version.
    Element 1300W

    Overall:
    I believe that this newcomer represents a significant improvement in all areas over the old machine. With the commercial tubing and pressurestat internally as well as the running improvements incorporated from the previous machine. I am confident that the Giotto will continue to lead the class. The extra spend is justified over the old machine. This machine has taken a quantum leap in quality over the old Giotto Premium and should continue to be our best seller.

    For more info: http://talkcoffee.com.au/equipment/coffee-machine-rocket-giotto-premium-plus.php
    PDF brochure: http://talkcoffee.com.au/downloads/coffee-machines/giotto-premium-plus-flyer.pdf

    If youd like to discuss this machine, please feel free to make contact using your preferred method.

    Chris


  2. #2
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Gee Chris, I cant believe you didnt mention that the pesky anti-vac valve that we loved to hate is no longer part of the internals!

    Then again, that might have gone a while ago. :-/

    Thanks for the review...I still love the look of this machine!

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1218965225/0#1 date=1218969217
    Gee Chris, I cant believe you didnt mention that the pesky anti-vac valve that we loved to hate is no longer part of the internals! *

    Then again, that might have gone a while ago. *:-/

    Thanks for the review...I still love the look of this machine!
    Yes Dennis- upgraded in all 08 Rocket build machines ;)

    If you love the old one, the newie will blow your socks off! Photos really dont do it justice...

    Chris

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    A little eye candy...



    Now the learning curve begins!

    Cheers,

    Andrew.

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Greeeen :P

    And look, not a stray coffee ground anywhere -- bet that dont last ;D

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    that just LOOKS awesome
    im jealous andrew

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Congratulations Andrew good choice.

    Dennis you are welcome to play with this machine at my shop, bring the tools and will pull it a part.

    Regards

    Renzo

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Di Bartoli link=1218965225/0#6 date=1219018429
    Congratulations Andrew good choice.

    Dennis you are welcome to play with this machine at my shop, bring the tools and will pull it a part.

    Regards

    Renzo
    Thanks Renzo, I have another idea. Why dont you come over and Ill let you play with Dudley - but leave your tools at home!

    ;D

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Dennis,

    I may take you on the offer.......are still have some peruvians beans.

    Renzo

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Di Bartoli link=1218965225/0#6 date=1219018429
    Dennis you are welcome to play with this machine at my shop, bring the tools and will pull it a part.

    Let me know when youre gonna do it, and Ill see you there, hows this coming Saturday morning? ;)

    (Tools are packed)

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Sorry, Yezza any other day will be OK. Saturday has become my biggest day now.

    PM me if you want to arrange some time.

    best regards


    Renzo

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    I could probably help someone in Brisbane purchase one of these machines, who didnt want the M4D that might have come with it.

    Know what I mean. Nudge Nudge ;) ;)

    http://www.talkcoffee.com.au/specials/index.php

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilMac link=1218965225/0#11 date=1219368347
    I could probably help someone in Brisbane purchase one of these machines, who didnt want the M4D that might have come with it.

    Know what I mean. Nudge Nudge *;) ;)

    http://www.talkcoffee.com.au/specials/index.php
    Ahh Phil- you are a real trooper! ;D

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Nah, I wouldnt do that. ::)

    I should try and swing an overnight trip down there through work, drop in and say hello and bring my choice home in my luggage.

    That sound better?


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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Minor upgrade - I can certainly give Chris a plug for the Giotto plus M4D package:



    After dialing in the grinder, now sitting here drinking the best coffee I have ever made *:) Certainly an enjoyable journey and highly recommended combo.

    Cheers,

    Andrew.

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    So shiny.
    Even the coffee bag.

    And the green light matches the tiles.

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1218965225/0#16 date=1219403610
    And the green light matches the tiles.
    I think it even blinks when the tank needs topping up

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    They both do look nice!

    I thought I spotted a grain of coffee on the bench-top, but it was on my screen. Very tidy indeed!

    Cheers

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Congratulations Andrew - I understand Chris Urban Blend is premium too! ;)

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Yes Andrew, thats quite DELISH.

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Just completed my order with Chris, Giotto premium plus and Macap M4, if it works half as good as it looks, it should be awesome. Damn, going to be like counting down the days until Christmas when i was a kid.

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by james74 link=1218965225/20#22 date=1221110573
    Just completed my order with Chris, Giotto premium plus and Macap M4, if it works half as good as it looks, it should be awesome. Damn, going to be like counting down the days until Christmas when i was a kid.
    Wont be long James!

    ECA have informed that Ill be receiving the back ordered Giotto stock next week and your will en route to you (and other orders) pronto! Ill even have a few spares :o

    The important thing is that the Giotto will work even better than it looks...Enjoy when it finally arrives ;)

    Chris

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Hi Chris,

    I was considering the Giotto but read your post about a new range of machines that will make Giotto and the like nervous? Can you give me some more details or should I consider the Giotto?

    Thanks Moto

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    yeah chris
    cmon spill the beans!

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Hi Moto and Roknee,

    At this point, I know:[*]Premium build quality- ex Italy. It looks gorgeous![*]All stainless construction[*]Great drip tray and good tank capacity[*]2L boiler...

    Price point will be in the region of Bezzera Domus Galatea/Giotto Premium Plus

    Im hoping that we will have full specifications and photos this week. There is also a stainless VBM Levetta (Vashetta) competitor which I predict will have the Isomac Zaffiro shaking in its boots ;)

    Ill create separate threads fo discussion on each machine once they arrive....

    Nevertheless (and back on topic), the GPP in my opinion is now a serious contender to the VBM in performance/value/build quality discussions...

    Chris

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    I agree Chris the Giotto should be on the shopping list purely from a performance point of view now - the good looks are simply a very nice bonus!

    And the good news is we have stock and the in-store demo is ready to be put through its paces.

    charlie

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Hi Guys.

    All true! after 3 weeks of operating the GPP on our bench and making multiple shots a day, we have witnessed a whole new level of machinery:

    - starting from how solid the machine is, so updosing is never a problem locking your handle in;

    - how well it copes temp wise with multiple shots of espresso one after another: no bitterness, sourness or change in color, steady flow. and great balanced taste after the 10th pour, and thats without cool-flushing! :o

    - It also stood remarkably well our dinner party test: private event on Sunday in our store had the GGP alone catering for 30 coffee lovers pumping lattes in a chain, with the normal purging, not even once weve had to stop for recuperation or open full steam to speed up dry steam build up.... :o

    - Few times the warning light in front panel came on, so weve topped up water in the tank before the machine stopped working, which is a great feature, particularly for those experiencing the wastage with knocking out their half-extracted puk when the machine stopped half way through a shot.. >:(

    Wow!!! The Hairdresser across the road who got one of those toys, have rang me today to thank us for boosting up the sales of his business, I only replied: "dont thank me, its your machine that does all the hard work.."

    New batch of GPP is available in store with the following calibration specs:

    1. Pump pressure is set us to 9+ bar
    2. Boiler pressure is set up to 1.2 bar
    3. 3 mm restrictor is installed in group head
    4. Commercial Pressure Switch

    The best packaging seen in the market so far and a great manual, incorporating a step-by-step guide, coffee menu, cleaning instructions & trouble shooting.

    No shortage in stock, available for an immediate pick up or purchase on: http://www.unpaid.com.au/products.asp?cid=20

    Any question on this machine, happy to answer! Ofra



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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Di Bartoli link=1218965225/20#29 date=1221467521
    starting from how solid the machine is, so updosing is never a problem locking your handle in;
    Is this down to the design of the new feet? Any chance the feet could be retro-fit to a normal Giotto?

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidR link=1218965225/20#30 date=1221469386
    Is this down to the design of the new feet? Any chance the feet could be retro-fit to a normal Giotto?
    No, sorry David,

    They will not fit....

    Chris

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    After spending yesterday afternoon at Di Bartolis playing on the new GPP, all I can say is WOW!

    This is one beautiful machine. So well built, so solid on the bench, beautiful pour after beautiful pour, brilliant steaming ability (if only it could do latte art for you, my afternoon would have been perfect :P).

    Definitely moved up my wish list ::).

    Greg

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Just recieved my new Giotto PP and Macap M4 (courtesy of Chris at talk coffee), it looks....Gorgeous!! The build quality is amazing. This machine is an absolute treat to use, i am STOKED! Buckets of dry steam, and once i got the grinder dialled in (about 5-6 doubles worth) I am already getting consistent shots of 30 seconds or so. Milk texturing is a breeze with the exception of the first couple of goes just trying to get comfortable.
    My first batch of coffee is a 50-50 blend of PNG peaberry and the Nicaraguan from last weeks beanbay with 4 days rest. Heaps of rich dark crema, virtually the whole shot is crema at the end of the pour.
    I am glad i went for the Giotto over the VBM SL as this thing is big, and the VBM would not have fit where I have placed it (Although i do like the asthetics of the VBM).
    Anyway, im off to keep practicing, although my sleep might de a bit dodgy tonight (even a little sip from each shot is starting to add up!).
    If you are considering this machine, you will not be dissapointed.
    James.

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GregJW link=1218965225/20#32 date=1221985032
    After spending yesterday afternoon at Di Bartolis playing on the new GPP, all I can say is WOW!

    This is one beautiful machine. So well built, so solid on the bench, beautiful pour after beautiful pour, brilliant steaming ability (if only it could do latte art for you, my afternoon would have been perfect *:P).

    Definitely moved up my wish list *::).

    Greg
    I also spent an afternoon at Di Bartoli with Renzo testing out some of their machines. Had walked in with my mind 80% set on the VBM Super Lever, walked out with a Giotto PP and Compact K3 - or will do when I pickup in a few days! *;D

    Though it must be said both machines are fab, and have stronger and weaker points, comes down to having a play and get *a feel for each. Liked the Giotto, just because it felt sturdier, maybe has to do with the chunkier wands and steaming knob?? Still like the squarer lines of the VBM better, though GPP isnt exactly ugly. * ;)

    Thanks to Renzo at Di Bartoli for his time, absolutely invaluable having a play with the machines before making an the $$$ investment! Look forward to the training and seting up the machine...then taking it home! *;D

    Jack

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Just a quick update on the GPP.
    After a month of owning this beauty, i am even more impressed. This machine is very consistant and now that i have my routine down pat, i am getting the most consistant results ive ever had. Had about 8 people over for dinner and by the time i had done a round of coffees, the first guest was back in line for more, quickly followed by the rest of them. I guess a total of 15 or so coffees in a row and it didnt miss a beat.
    One word of warning, this machine seems to make people want to touch it, resulting in a couple of hot fingers! No damage done, and it was pretty funny. (no damaged fingers either).
    Cheers
    James.

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Nice to hear James, and nothing like pulling one shot after the other to build on your experience.

    That is pretty funny about people wanting to touch it - I guess they only do it once. :)


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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by charoli link=1218965225/20#34 date=1222518490
    Quote Originally Posted by GregJW link=1218965225/20#32 date=1221985032
    After spending yesterday afternoon at Di Bartolis playing on the new GPP, all I can say is WOW!

    Greg
    I also spent an afternoon at Di Bartoli with Renzo testing out some of their machines. Had walked in with my mind 80% set on the VBM Super Lever, walked out with a Giotto PP and Compact K3 - or will do when I pickup in a few days! *;D

    Thanks to Renzo at Di Bartoli for his time, absolutely invaluable having a play with the machines before making an the $$$ investment! Look forward to the training and seting up the machine...then taking it home! *;D

    Jack
    Thanks Jack for the visit and the time spent with us, I hope by now you had a good play at home with both machines and that youre getting great results! We are glad we could have been of help narrowing down the options, choosing eventually the model that suited you best, and add on this training tips as tools to accompany your journey.

    All CS are welcome warmly to enjoy the same experience Jack has gone through. No appointment is needed! *;)

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Finally took a photo, Iíve had her a couple of weeks now.


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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NE14COFFEE link=1218965225/20#38 date=1226554981
    Finally took a photo, Iíve had her a couple of weeks now.
    Looks great NE14COFFEE!

    Amazing how a super short hopper can make a SJ look just like a mini ;)

    Congrats on the new kit....

    Chris

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Nice setup NE1.

    Looks like promo material with a bit of product placement on the left of the Giotto....(are you looking Den?)

    Errr..knockbox liner??? *:)

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    congrats NE1! ;)

    Steve, if you knew NE1 like I do, youd be surprised that the liner isnt colour co-ordinated with the rest of the kit. Having said that I know NE1 will now be disturbed...I had a laugh.

    Product placement...just realised there are a few things there that came from over this way.

    :)

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1218965225/40#41 date=1226559339
    congrats NE1! ;)Steve, if you knew NE1 like I do, youd be surprised that the liner isnt colour co-ordinated with the rest of the kit. *Having said that I know NE1 will now be disturbed...I had a laugh
    :) I should know better than to raise my eyebrow. Take no notice of such typical male lack of appreciation for attention to detail NE1!
    Actually, my first observation was wow, what a lot of trouble to go to fit the knockbin liner in a such a neat way!

    Product placement...just realised there are a few things there that came from over this way :)
    Promo!! This is a great photo!

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Now THATS art!!!

    Beautiful setup NE1. IMO youve got the best domestic domestic combination there with messrs Giotto, Mazzer and, of course, Pullman (chequerboard! 8-)) and Wells (aka Cuppacoffee). And, from what Chris said on Saturday, the Giotto is singing like a bird!

    You MUST be pulling some beautiful brews!

    Congrats,
    Greg




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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Product placement? Who me? No never!

    I cant help it. After all, I have Dennis to thank for most of it.

    Both Dennis and Chris are remarkable. I can highly recommend Talk Coffee & Cuppa Coffee :) They were nothing but patient while I asked a million questions, tested all the shiny machines and procrastinated. If that wasnít enough, the after sales service has been impeccable. The best part was the proof of just how perfect the GPP is (sorry canít help it). The scace demonstrated it was very consistent, just as Chris had predicted ;).

    Thank you all for the thoughtful comments :-[.

    Flynn, Dennis is right. Iíd match the bags if I could. I know, I know.

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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Hi,

    Just a quick question, when I have a fine grind whilst using my Giotto, I get a whooping noise from the pump before the pour comes through. Is this normal? and is it ok?

    And can anyone tell me, why a pour would start out slow (dripping) then run fast (like water) with no slow build up?

    Im trying to fine tune my techniques and have had private lessons but sine the lessons, I have purchased the Macap M4D stepped doseless grinder and just cant get the pour right - I SEEK PERFECTION!!!!


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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    As a technology reviewer, I canít help myself. After a week of Giotto ownership, I need to post a (non-technical) review.
    My Giotto journey began after 16 months of Sunbeam EM6910 ownership. I wonít go into the EM6910 story, besides an observation that if Sunbeam put more emphasis on the manufacturing side, Poppy and her fantastic service colleagues wouldnít have so much to do!
    My initial observation about the Giotto is that itís built like a tank Ė a Ferrari tank. Sturdy, solid and serious Ė but elegant.
    The Sunbeam training and experience has obviously held me in good stead, and the Giotto is relatively easy to operate. Fill with water, prime (first time only), watch the gauge rise, push the lever, watch the treacle flow!
    And itís fortunate that itís so easy because the ownerís manual is very poor Ė especially for a machine that retails at just under three grand. (I couldnít help myself and have already contacted the factory and offered to rewrite it!)
    The two most noticeable improvements over the Sunbeam are the temperature of the beverages it produces (Iíd forgotten what a hot flat white was!) and the fantastic milk texturing Ė amazing speed and terrific texture.
    The cup-warmer is like a mini nuclear power station Ė it really warms cups!
    I am still working on improving the coffee part of the operation. The Giotto is far less tolerant than the Sunbeam, and itís easy to produce really bad coffee. Itís taken a while to dial in the grind Ė and because of the size of the steps on my Sunbeam grinder, Iím still not quite there. So I am getting some fantastic shots, but I havenít quite been able to achieve the ďhoney pourĒ which you see on in the videos.
    I am also still getting slightly wet pucks which dry out between handle removal and puck disposal. This is not a dosing issue because the Sunbeam has taught me the art of updosing, so itís certainly a grind issue which, hopefully, will improve with a new, more versatile grinder Ė and practice.
    The other disappointment is the cheap plastic tamper supplied with the Giotto Ė but perhaps theyíve struck a secret deal with Greg Pullman Ė or maybe they know that anyone forking out the big bucks will want something special anyway.
    So, a week and some fantastic, hot, silky, smooth coffees later, the Giotto is a happy addition to our kitchen.
    Given the quality materials and obvious engineering advantages of this up-market machine, I am still bemused by the one-year warranty. While devotees insist itíll last a lifetime, I canít understand why the manufacturer or the importer canít provide at least the two-year warranty of some of the appliances on the shelves.
    And a final warning Ė donít think you can buy Giotto without budgeting for a serious grinder.

  45. #45
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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Hi flatwhite,

    A very interesting review of your Giotto journey. I too, have upgraded from the Sunbeam and found the journey to be both exhilarating and exhausting, but I wouldnt trade it for the world.

    I am now somewhat poorer from the upgrade to the Giotto, as it has only been done justice when I purchased the equivalent grinder (Macap M4D). And as you mention, the supplied Giotto tamper is cheap but with Santa bringing me a Pullman my coffee is sure to meet perfection soon.

    My pucks are always slightly wet when removed and I am still concerned by the whooping sound I get on some of my pours, as Im terrified of hurting my baby, but the coffee is gooooooood.

    I watched Scottie Callahans videos on the ECA website, and it helped tremendously to get the honey pour.

    Good luck with your adventure

  46. #46
    TC
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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Hi flatwhite,

    Good to hear that all is essentially going well....

    FWIW, I reckon the Giotto is about the most forgiving machine in our range and with good fresh coffee, good skills and a great grinder will consistently far exceed the capabilities of the Sunbeam. Every time I have used the Sunbeam, there has been latent sourness in the shot- regardless of what coffee, set temperature, grinder etc. Nevertheless the Sunbeam is good value for money (assuming it holds together ::)).

    With any machine, consistency is the key and you will probably vary a little as you learn your machine. As others have mentioned, a good grinder is paramount. I sold a Giotto just the other day to a person with a Solis grinder. All of the caveats were mentioned but the buyer reckons that the grinder will be fine. I know that he will be back to get the Compak/Macap/Mazzer that I encouraged in the first place. Many purchasers think that its just an upsell but its about the coffee. You dont purchase a Ferrari and then run it on diesel.

    Learn your machine and definitely get that great tamper. For me, a tamper is like a chefs knife. Buy properly and you make a lifelong investment. Alternately, grab a $10 unit in your supermarket and chuck it out in 6 months in recognition that you received what you paid for. Rocket, like all of the other manufacturers recognise that tampers are a very personal choice (the tamper chooses the hand- not vice versa) and must also compete on price as well. A great tamper would push the box price up by perhaps $150 and would lead to many potential buyers simply rejecting the machine as too expensive or dumping the tamper anyway.

    As for packaging/manual, I reckon Rocket has done a brilliant job. The packaging is excellent. Other manufacturers would do well to look and learn. Many machines in our range are just a machine in a garbage bag in a box with some cardboard bits at the corner to "protect". The Rocket manual is at least heading the right direction and will no doubt evolve.

    As for warranty, 12 months is industry standard. Sunbeam need a longer one because their machines are complex and prone to failure.

    Enjoy your machine and please feel most welcome to call for some tips if I can assist...

    Chris

  47. #47
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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Thanks Chris. Thats a generous offer.
    Clearly, our definitions of "forgiving" are very different.
    You say the Giotto is "the most forgiving machine in our range and with good fresh coffee, good skills and a great grinder...". What I mean is that without a great grinder and reasonable skills, it is not forgiving. With the Sunbeam, theres more margin for error because the gap between its best and its worst is so much smaller than the Giottos.
    By the way, I didnt knock the packaging. Its brilliant - even the accessory packaging is a treat.
    They could, however, have done a bit better with the tamper without adding $150 to the retail price. One can source a half-way decent budget tamper for around $40 retail, so they could probably bulk buy at under $10.
    But these are very minor deficiencies. Overall, though, very happy.

  48. #48
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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    In a past life as a Trainer an evaluation sheet came back with the comment, "would have liked donuts with morning tea". *

    Next session we supplied donuts. *

    One of the evaluation comments from that session read, "donuts were cold". * ;D

    Trust me...you wouldnt be happy with a $10 tamper.

  49. #49
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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    What? Why didnt I get donuts with my Giotto??

  50. #50
    TC
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    Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by flatwhite link=1218965225/40#49 date=1227654114
    ....With the Sunbeam, theres more margin for error because the gap between its best and its worst is so much smaller than the Giottos.
    :-? Interesting....Having used them both extensively, I could only suggest that there is a very large gap from the Sunbeam to the best from a Giotto. In that sense, I guess youre correct ;)



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