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Thread: $2000 range

  1. #1
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    $2000 range

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Ok I am wanting to upgrade (just coffee machine) with a $2000 budget. *Prefer New machine, but not esstential. *Looking at ExpoBar leva, Isomac Tea, *would prefer a fairly small footprint if possible due to limited space. * Have not played around much with e61 group heads. *Being in Perth would need a machine with easy acessability to parts and service. *need pros / cons, other machine options. *I obviously do not have to spend the full $2000 if there is another option that is just as good for cheaper.

    I make both Espresso and milk drinks. Only need to make a couple of coffees at a time , as only for personal use.

  2. #2
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    Re: $2000 range

    Hi,

    The Expobar Office Leva is narrower and deeper than the Isomac Tea. Also, the Expobar has a bigger boiler than the Tea, but both machines will do the job. Theres not a big difference in foot print. In my experience, it usually comes down to aesthetics.

    charlie

  3. #3
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    Re: $2000 range

    Sounds like you dont really need an HX machine so you might want to consider the Diadema Perfetta or the VBM Domobar Piccolo.

    On the other hand, $2K is getting close to some very good HX machines, you may want to stretch the budget slightly more to something like the Bezerra BZ07.

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    Re: $2000 range

    Hi Steve, Im with Charlie on this one..

    if aesthetics are not too important, a caibrated Expobar eb-61 lever.

    If youre happy to go a single boiler machine and wait for your milk, I reckon the Diadema Perfetta is the best on the market.

    Chris

  5. #5
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: $2000 range

    I have the Expobar and it will easily handle your requirements with plenty of grunt to spare.

    Not the prettiest machine but not the ugliest either.

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    Re: $2000 range

    I vote with Chris, my Expobar was transformed after he calibrated it with a Thermo stability mod and it would do the job easy.

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    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: $2000 range

    Bezzera BZ99 is under $2,000 and I think it would be classed as semi commercial

    Good reliable workhorse

    KK

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    Re: $2000 range

    From top of my head will be:
    HX:
    Bezzera 99S (Under 2000)
    Expobar Lever/ Expobar Office (Under 2000)
    Nouva Simonelli Oscar (Under 2000)
    Isomac Tea (Over 2000)

    Boiler plus thermo-blocks
    Ascaso Duo (Under 2000)

    good luck

    regards


    Renzo
    Di Bartoli Home Barista Centre

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    Re: $2000 range

    Quote Originally Posted by 3A392A2A3D34580 link=1252636745/5#5 date=1252715458
    I vote with Chris, my Expobar was transformed after he calibrated it with a Thermo stability mod and it would do the job easy.
    What would be better? EXPOBAR Leva with Thermo Stability Mod or EXPOBAR Minore III What sort of cost would the Thermo Mod be? would this push me towards the price of a minore III?

  10. #10
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    Re: $2000 range

    Quote Originally Posted by 607C71737B7B707D7167140 link=1252636745/8#8 date=1252799909
    Quote Originally Posted by 3A392A2A3D34580 link=1252636745/5#5 date=1252715458
    I vote with Chris, my Expobar was transformed after he calibrated it with a Thermo stability mod and it would do the job easy. *
    What would be better? *EXPOBAR Leva with Thermo Stability Mod or EXPOBAR Minore III *What sort of cost would the Thermo Mod be? would this push me towards the price of a minore III?
    Howdy Steve,

    Barrels machine is an Office SA. These arrive without thermosyphon restriction and are uuuugly unless modified. You should be able to get a great result from the Office leva with just pressurestat and OPV tweaking. We spend an hour on a*Scace check and adjustment of the eb-61 before it goes out the door...

    The Minore III is fantastic out of the box and requires only adjustment of the OPV...

    Your choice ;)

    We have an Expobar (+Giotto and VBM) service specialist over your way. They handle all our service and warranty requirements, so it makes good sense...

    Chris

  11. #11
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    Re: $2000 range

    I think I am starting to steer towards the Expobar Minore III so might be worth saving that few extra dollars to upgrade.

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    Re: $2000 range

    I have the Leva and it has been great. Also, I have become a fan of its more "honest" appearance - not as fluffy as some of the other machines - though beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I also considered the Minore III and I also only make a few coffees at a time.
    I didnt choose the Minore because:
    1. Its overkill for my needs given I only make a few coffees at a time.
    2. Properly calibrated the Leva will make identical coffees. It produces more than sufficient amounts of dry steam that makes the 6910 look like a toy. Many reviews online on the Leva are old and assess a leva without a thermosyphon. I only flush 50-80ml of water and have great temp stability (as far as I know)
    3. The Minore has much more that can go wrong compared to the Leva.
    4. The Minore is much more expensive

  13. #13
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    Re: $2000 range

    I suppose if I went the Leva, and had it calibrated then this would save me some dollars to save up for a mazzer as well.

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    Re: $2000 range

    Quote Originally Posted by 685D5057637F535A5A59593C0 link=1252636745/3#3 date=1252650525
    If youre happy to go a single boiler machine and wait for your milk, I reckon the Diadema Perfetta is the best on the market.
    When you say wait for your milk, *What sort of time frame are we looking at between the shot pulled and steaming the milk. *Is it seconds/minutes?

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    Re: $2000 range

    Quote Originally Posted by 677B76747C7C777A7660130 link=1252636745/13#13 date=1255168459
    When you say wait for your milk, *What sort of time frame are we looking at between the shot pulled and steaming the milk. *Is it seconds/minutes?
    about a minute to purge the wand and build up enough pressure. I usually clean up the grounds add any sugars etc while waiting. *Not a problem unless doing more than 4 drinks then the first ones can get a *bit cold. If youre only pouring one or two shots before steaming then itll be fine.

    sd

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    Re: $2000 range

    Quote Originally Posted by 160A07050D0D060B0711620 link=1252636745/12#12 date=1253025590
    I suppose if I went the Leva, and had it calibrated then this would save me some dollars to save up for a mazzer as well.
    Why would you want to go for a mazza when you have a compak. I read a review from Greg Pullman and the outcome was about the same quality and a little cheeper. Some times I think we get carried away with brand names and have blinkers on not to see anything else. BTW I have the Minore III and find it very satisfying. I will be putting it to the test next W/E when we have a welcoming party for her.
    Regards
    Crisp Image

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    Re: $2000 range

    Quote Originally Posted by 1C2D362C2F0036323E383A5F0 link=1252636745/15#15 date=1255308144
    Why would you want to go for a mazza when you have a compak?
    Why would you want a BMW or Merc when a Tata will do the job? :-?

  18. #18
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    Re: $2000 range

    Quote Originally Posted by 164951474C474B4242414149454A240 link=1252636745/16#16 date=1255309851
    Why would you want a BMW or Merc when a Tata will do the job?
    Chris, I agree, although youd be surprised at how much interest is out there for tatas in good nick.

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    Re: $2000 range

    Quote Originally Posted by 336C746269626E676764646C606F010 link=1252636745/16#16 date=1255309851
    Quote Originally Posted by 1C2D362C2F0036323E383A5F0 link=1252636745/15#15 date=1255308144
    Why would you want to go for a mazza when you have a compak?
    Why would you want a BMW or Merc when a Tata will do the job? *:-?
    Bit of an extreme comparison there 2mcm. From my experience with both, the Mazzer and the Compak are comparable grinders with different sets of quirks and a small difference in price, period. For someone looking for a grinder at this point in the market I think theyre both worth thoughtful consideration.

    Crisp you make a good point about not getting carried away with brand names, in fact in the review youve pointed to I started by saying:

    One unfortunate side effect of the enormous popularity and reputation of the Mazzer Mini is that other quality grinders are potentially dismissed as inadequate simply because they dont get the same air time as the Mazzer.

    On this forum at least, the brand name products often have the reputation they do because theyve got many happy owners; but thats not to say a different brand machine isnt comparable, or even better for certain people. The Diadema range and to an extent Bezerra often suffer from this symptom I believe; great machines which deserve to be in the mix with Vibiemme, Rocket and Expobar; but brands which dont get the same exposure as others tend to get overlooked even if theyre the right one for the buyer. On the one occasion I saw one in the metal (when picking up my Expobar) I recall being impressed with the thickness of the sheet metal in comparison to the Expobar. It probably wouldnt have changed my mind but my opinion of the Diadema went up a few notches.

    The Goodies: Im quite happy with the Minore but Ive never used the other ones being discussed. I mainly got it over the Leva because I liked the tight control offered by the PID yet the ability to easily and accurately adjust brew temperature without having to lift the lid and affect other factors like boiler pressure. I cant say its blown me away with its steaming ability though; my impression is that its not overly quicker than the Silvia in terms of the time taken to heat up the milk. Obviously preparation time is a lot quicker and back to back jugs are a piece of cake. One of these days Ill repeat the test I did in the Sunbeam vs Silvia shootout and find out for sure. Compared to my 2 group Veneziano which of course is a steam monster! ;D

    Re grinder, frankly unless you have a good reason to consider a Mazzer rather than the Compak Id stick with what youve got. Im pretty sure we talked over this issue in Perth before you got the Compak so unless somethings changed... That said, Im sure you wont have trouble getting rid of it here if you decide to sell! ;)

    Greg

  20. #20
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    Re: $2000 range

    Quote Originally Posted by 322730322520393938343B550 link=1252636745/18#18 date=1255319097
    Bit of an extreme comparison there 2mcm
    Yes- a deliberate one Greg.

    The Compaks are excellent but do have free play in the burr set (at K3 level). Its easily rectified though. Grind quality when modified is very good as it is in unmodified Mazzers. Horses for courses I guess. If you want quality of finish, Mazzer/Macap. If its functionality and you are not so fussed about finish, Compak.

    I recall that you made the same decision and chose finish as well so I figure that you prefer a BMW over a Tata *;) :P

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    Re: $2000 range

    Yep for me the Mazzer was certainly the go, but it was based on the tight burr carrier, easily removable lid for doser, larger dregs tray and metal dosing forks, not looks. But I wouldnt say everyone would feel those factors were worth the extra $200 or whatever the Mazzer is and my view remains theyre very much both worthy of consideration before taking the plunge.

    Interesting your comment about finish (Mazzer +1) or functionality (Compak +1); if you mean looks / aesthetics, I know thats a pretty personal choice but for me Compak blew the pants off the Mazzer in this department where the Mazzer shone through in the nuts and bolts of functionality. I just looked back at the review and this was what I said at the time about the aesthetics:


    It looks as though Mazzers engineers went their separate ways to design a grinder, a doser, a collar, a hopper and a dregs tray, and then worked out how to put them together. Compaks engineering department seems to have approached things from the other end, where the overall appearance of the grinder was first designed, after which the components were designed to fit that aesthetic mold. As a result, the Mazzer has a very modular, discrete appearance, whereas the Compak is much more integrated and streamlined; it appears to have been designed with aesthetics in mind, whereas the Mazzer is, comparatively, a case of function over form.
    Full review

    I scored the Compak a 10/10 and the Mazzer 7/10. So while the Mazzers by no means an ugly duckling it does look a bit discrete next to the curvaceous lines of the Compak, to my eyes at least. The Mazzers performance in daily use was what ultimately won it the battle for me.

    Greg

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    Re: $2000 range

    Can anyone point me in the right direction on how to reduce the slack in the burrs of a K3 touch? Had mine a week now and its proving an annoying feature.

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    Re: $2000 range

    I think we are going off topic here now but one last thing about why mazzer and not compak. *After have a doser K3 Elite Compak and having a sunbeam is that sunbeams play a bit better when the group handle is up dosed, tapped, an updosed again. *(this works for me) *The space between the group handle and the exit shoot of the doser is really close on a compak and often cuts off the top of the grinds wasting a lot into the tray below. *the mazzer has a large space between doser and group handle and can easily be updosed (taller mound) without have the top cut off when removing the group handle.

    No back on Topic, I think I have decided to wait and save that few more extra dollars to the price range of $2500 and look more at the diadema or expobar.

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    Re: $2000 range

    Agreed Steve. Now you mention it I remember that problem and I see I even wrote that in the review (just as well I dont rely on my memory! ::)). For anyone else reading, these are the magnitude of things that generally make the difference between one product over another - not some enormous thumping difference but the small things you dont see on a spec sheet.

    Happy saving! ;)

    Greg

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    Proud Unico Splendor Owner

    Well here it is, *I have gone a different route to what I was originally planning but came across an opportunity that I could not refuse. *I am now the proud owner of a Unico Splendor. *I am a happy camper at the moment. *:) :) :)



  26. #26
    brett230873
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    Re: $2000 range

    Many congratulations. My Splendor has worked quite hard and hasnt missed a beat. I also have not yet found a machine that is better looking. Great pick up. Looks in fabulous condition.

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    Re: $2000 range

    Congrats on the purchase. Happy days :)

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    Re: $2000 range

    Quote Originally Posted by 78687F6E6E28292A222D291A0 link=1252636745/25#25 date=1256020517
    Many congratulations. *My Splendor has worked quite hard and hasnt missed a beat. *I also have not yet found a machine that is better looking. *Great pick up. *Looks in fabulous condition.
    Hi Brett, did you get the boiler pressure adjusted. It is running a bit hot and need to perform a longish coolling flush. Is thisw something I could do (meaning reasonably easy to do)

  29. #29
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Re: $2000 range

    Congrats on your shiny new toy Steve :) :) ;) ;) :D :D :o :o

  30. #30
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    Re: $2000 range

    Beautiful machine Steve! I looked at one of those many moons ago and I think they really look The Goodies ;)

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    Re: $2000 range

    Very nice Steve.....congrats!


    Quote Originally Posted by 7C697E7C6B6E7777767A751B0 link=1252636745/29#29 date=1256552251
    Beautiful machine Steve! I looked at one of those many moons ago and I think they really look The Goodies ;)
    Oh I see what you did thar Greg..... [smiley=rolleyes.gif]

  32. #32
    brett230873
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    Re: $2000 range

    Quote Originally Posted by 3D212C2E26262D202C3A490 link=1252636745/27#27 date=1256518308
    Quote Originally Posted by 78687F6E6E28292A222D291A0 link=1252636745/25#25 date=1256020517
    Many congratulations. *My Splendor has worked quite hard and hasnt missed a beat. *I also have not yet found a machine that is better looking. *Great pick up. *Looks in fabulous condition.
    Hi Brett, *did you get the boiler pressure adjusted. *It is running a bit hot and need to perform a longish coolling flush. *Is thisw something I could do (meaning reasonably easy to do)
    Hi,

    Mine was adjusted when it was initially bench tested. I understand however that it is a nice easy process. The pressurestat has a + and- and from memory is located on the left hand side of the machine as you look at it (inside the case). I have an electrician friend who supervises any mods I do because a Sparkie call out fee is much cheaper than those pesky funeral costs.

  33. #33
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: $2000 range

    Quote Originally Posted by 0212051414525350585753600 link=1252636745/31#31 date=1256557108
    I have an electrician friend who supervises any mods I do because a Sparkie call out fee is much cheaper than those pesky funeral costs.
    I assume payment is in great coffee ::)

    KK

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    Re: $2000 range

    I have heard though that if you adjust the boiler pressure then you also reduce steam pressure as well. I do like the steaming power as is so I must choose between longer cooling flushes and more tank refills or better steaming power? At the moment I am drinking more milk based drinks so steam pressure is a little higher on the list. At least I know know that if I wanted to adjust the boiler pressureit is reasonable easy.


  35. #35
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    Re: $2000 range

    Quote Originally Posted by 7965686A62626964687E0D0 link=1252636745/33#33 date=1256722564
    I have heard though that if you adjust the boiler pressure then you also reduce steam pressure as well.I do like the steaming power as is so I must choose between longer cooling flushes and more tank refills or better steaming power?
    As I mentioned in post #18, thats precisely the reason I chose the Minore - dual boiler allows you to adjust each individually whereas a HX had the two tied together (hence the term heat exchanger - heat is exchanged from the boiler to the brew water). Temperature and pressure are proportional to each other, just as a bike pump gets hot when you pump up the tyre and just like an aerosol can gets cold if you spray it for long enough. The heating element will keep heating until the pressurestat clicks off, and if you set the pressurestat for a higher pressure the water has to get hotter to expand to a sufficient pressure to trip the pressurestat. Thus you increase the temperature of the boiler and everything within in (including the HX).

  36. #36
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    Re: $2000 range

    Actually, in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with a single boiler, it produces good steam and consistency. The down side is that if you steam for a while and the tank needs a topup, the water will be cooled for a short time.

    The good news is that HXs keep they temp well and a little fluctuation doesnt spoil shots like in the mini-boiler machines.

    Approach it this way - that once you set the perfect grind/pressure/temp - you wont change it. So it doesnt matter which machine or how many boilers, the trick is to find the right combination.

    CHeers,
    Greg



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