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Thread: Giotto failing to release pressure

  1. #1
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    Giotto failing to release pressure

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I have a Giotto Premium thats a few years old now.

    I backflush my machine with coffee cleaner roughly every 3 weeks. *Im fairly pedantic about it.

    Currently, Im not getting the full pressure released at the end of the brewing cycle and I end up with either no water, or very little, going into the tray at the end of the brewing cycle, which I would normally get after the lever is returned correctly to its normal state and the pressure is released. *The end result is that Im sprayed with coffee (or cleaner!) when I remove the group handle.

    When I clean the machine, I usually backflush with cleaner a couple of times and leave it in there for about 10 minutes before I blackflush with water to thoroughly remove any cleaner. *Ive now tried leaving the cleaner in there for just under an hour and while it may possibly help a little, the problem returns very quickly.

    The severity of the problem also appears to be somewhat arbitrary. *Sometimes a fair amount of the pressure is released but other times it feels like none. *I can usually gauge this pretty well by how much coffee ends up on me :C

    Ive also recently replaced the grouphead gasket/seal and made sure its all clean under the dispersion screen.

    Any hints or clues as to what I can do that dont involve wearing a hazmut suit? :)

    Thank you

  2. #2
    A_M
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    Re: Giotto failing to release pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by 4C41444843495F484C402D0 link=1256351555/0#0 date=1256351555
    I have a Giotto Premium thats a few years old now.

    I backflush my machine with coffee cleaner roughly every 3 weeks. *Im fairly pedantic about it.

    Currently, Im not getting the full pressure released at the end of the brewing cycle and I end up with either no water, or very little, going into the tray at the end of the brewing cycle, which I would normally get after the lever is returned correctly to its normal state and the pressure is released. *The end result is that Im sprayed with coffee (or cleaner!) when I remove the group handle.

    When I clean the machine, I usually backflush with cleaner a couple of times and leave it in there for about 10 minutes before I blackflush with water to thoroughly remove any cleaner. *Ive now tried leaving the cleaner in there for just under an hour and while it may possibly help a little, the problem returns very quickly.

    The severity of the problem also appears to be somewhat arbitrary. *Sometimes a fair amount of the pressure is released but other times it feels like none. *I can usually gauge this pretty well by how much coffee ends up on me :C

    Ive also recently replaced the grouphead gasket/seal and made sure its all clean under the dispersion screen.

    Any hints or clues as to what I can do that dont involve wearing a hazmut suit? :)

    Thank you
    Sounds like ya 3 way valve is either on teh way out or has some scale in it... Cleaner will not remove the scale..

    Would suggest that a sponsor or another owner may jump in... As I am not sure if it is a user fixable item - All depends on you skills etc.

  3. #3
    TC
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    Re: Giotto failing to release pressure

    Sounds to me like its time to at least pull down and clean the valves within the group...

    Looking at the group, remove the lower tube. Refer page 3- Group from http://www.espressocompany.com.au/spare-parts/ROCKET-CATALOGUE-13.03.09.pdf from the group using (carefully) a large spanner. You will see valves and springs. I disassemble the entire section and soak in backwash detergent to clean it. If scale is evident, you may need to soak everything in descaler as well. I tend to do the mushroom and associated springs and valves as well at the same time.

    This should give you a happily working group again.

    Good luck ;)

    2mcm

  4. #4
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    Re: Giotto failing to release pressure

    Thanks guys for your responses

    2mcm, Ill give that a go when I can next.

    I appreciate the help.


  5. #5
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    Re: Giotto failing to release pressure

    2mcms advice is good.
    I had a similar problem but mine also just started dripping water all the time.

    I pulled it apart and the muck in there was amazing (i backflush and do a descale)
    However, it was still a mess.

    I ended up cleaning everything by hand and swapped out the 3 complete valve setup in there as they are not too expensive.

    there is 1 on top of the brew head called the brew valve assembly which is around $16
    then on the bottom section there are 2 valve assemplies
    1st is infusion valve $16 and the 3rd is the group drain $15

    they are all different sizes, so if replacing or cleaning, make sure you remember which went where and in what order it all went together

  6. #6
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    Re: Giotto failing to release pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by 547176705F1E0 link=1256351555/4#4 date=1256368581
    2mcms advice is good.
    I had a similar problem but mine also just started dripping water all the time.

    I pulled it apart and the muck in there was amazing (i backflush and do a descale)
    However, it was still a mess.

    I ended up cleaning everything by hand and swapped out the 3 complete valve setup in there as they are not too expensive.

    there is 1 on top of the brew head called the brew valve assembly which is around $16
    then on the bottom section there are 2 valve assemplies
    1st is infusion valve $16 and the 3rd is the group drain $15

    they are all different sizes, so if replacing or cleaning, make sure you remember which went where and in what order it all went together
    Sounds rather complicated. *Im sure it isnt that bad but Ive not had much experience with taking apart Espresso machines, so Ill do some more research before I jump head on into pulling the whole thing apart :)

  7. #7
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    Re: Giotto failing to release pressure

    its very simple.

    i have never done it either, though not long ago i decided bugger it.
    I was either going to repair this machine on my own or get a new one if i completely buggered it up.

    the pdf file posted above shows the exploded views, follow it and its very simple.

    Trust me, if a stooge like me can do it, anyone can :)

    then again, if you are not confident at all, take it to someone to do it for you, then they can give it a once over also

  8. #8
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    Re: Giotto failing to release pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by 5A7F787E51100 link=1256351555/6#6 date=1256377987
    its very simple.

    i have never done it either, though not long ago i decided bugger it.
    I was either going to repair this machine on my own or get a new one if i completely buggered it up.

    the pdf file posted above shows the exploded views, follow it and its very simple.

    Trust me, if a stooge like me can do it, anyone can :)

    then again, if you are not confident at all, take it to someone to do it for you, then they can give it a once over also
    The diagram is very useful, thanks. *I reckon Ill give it a go.

  9. #9
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    Re: Giotto failing to release pressure

    I finally got around to taking my machine apart. *Its funny because Im an ICT Technician and so Im used to dealing with technical stuff but I was hesitant to take my espresso machine apart :-] *Not as difficult as it might seem - well at least the bits I did.

    I took the lower section of the group apart and the handle section. *It seems cleanliness wasnt an issue as it was quite clean.

    From what I can tell, the problem is related to the action of the cam that is attached to the lever that operates the two valves for letting water in and out of the group. *The top of the valve that lets the water out (ie bottom one - part 26 in group diagram that 2mcm posted above) looked either warn or deliberately angled after manufacturing in order to allow the cam on the lever to push it down to let the water out. Im guessing that what had happened is that it had rotated and was not being pushed down when the cam rotated down (ie lever in down position).

    I put it back together with the lower valve rotated the way I thought it should go and it is now correctly releasing the water pressure after brewing (ie handle down). *I tested backflushing it a few times after and it only failed once to release water pressure. *So this may all happen again but its working for now. *I think I may have to replace part 26 from the group diagram that 2mcm sent above.

    Id be interested in knowing whether this bottom valve is actually meant to have an angled top on it, or whether it was just worn.

    I thought Id just document this here in case someone else has the same problem. *Thanks everyone for your advice and help.

  10. #10
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Re: Giotto failing to release pressure

    What precautions did you take when unscrewing everything?

    Looking at my chrome everywhere GPP I would hate to think what an unprotected shifter would do to it :o

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    Re: Giotto failing to release pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by 7177606B71766E6C050 link=1256351555/9#9 date=1259712951
    What precautions did you take when unscrewing everything?

    Looking at my chrome everywhere GPP I would hate to think what an unprotected shifter would do to it :o
    I used a shifter for the lowest section - just being very careful and making sure it is adjusted to the exact width before applying any force. *As soon as you have to apply any real force and the shifter starts slipping, youre in for trouble.

    For the larger section (just before the group head) the shifter wasnt large enough. *I did it all at my brothers place - hes an award winning home beer brewer, so he had lots of tools around - he suggested his vice-grip pliers with a thin strip of sheet metal wrapped tightly around the section to protect it. *Worked really well. *Just have to be careful and not rush anything.

  12. #12
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    Re: Giotto failing to release pressure

    whenever ive attacked mine with a spanner, i use a microfibre cloth doubled over in the shifter.......doesnt make a mark 8-)

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    Re: Giotto failing to release pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by 1B1F392020253A2D224C0 link=1256351555/11#11 date=1259715478
    whenever ive attacked mine with a spanner, i use a microfibre cloth doubled over in the shifter.......doesnt make a mark 8-)
    Yup, my Giotto and a microfibre-cloth are best friends. *I just didnt have it with me at the time.

    The only problem I can see with using a microfibre cloth and a shifter is that you dont want the shifter to slip, which could possible happen if placed between its jaws. *As soon as it slips, you can start rounding corners. *A tight careful fit works well.

  14. #14
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    Re: Giotto failing to release pressure

    ^^ Some double sided tape with only one side peeled and stuck to the spanner allows the snug fit and keeps ones chrome bits from getting scratched.

    Removal from spanner after the work is complete is generally okay if done straight away.

    Disclaimer: This works for me on bike equipment. I havent completed any spanner work on my coffee gear (yet). :)

  15. #15
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    Re: Giotto failing to release pressure

    Yikes!

    Shifters and Vicegrips on expensive chrome plated brass fittings. I shudder in disbelief..... :o

    When you consider the value of your hardware, why not pay a visit to a reputable Tools supplier and buy good quality spanners of the exact size required. Just set them aside in a safe place until theyre needed and then you have no concerns about bruising the finish of the chrome plated components or even worse, stripping some material from the components. Doesnt bare thinking about....

    Mal.

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    Re: Giotto failing to release pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by 65484C404D210 link=1256351555/14#14 date=1259745236
    Yikes!

    Shifters and Vicegrips on expensive chrome plated brass fittings. I shudder in disbelief..... :o

    When you consider the value of your hardware, why not pay a visit to a reputable Tools supplier and buy good quality spanners of the exact size required. Just set them aside in a safe place until theyre needed and then you have no concerns about bruising the finish of the chrome plated components or even worse, stripping some material from the components. *Doesnt bare thinking about....

    Mal.

    With you Mal,

    Coffee machines, bikes or anything :-?

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    Re: Giotto failing to release pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by 466B6F636E020 link=1256351555/14#14 date=1259745236
    Yikes!
    Shifters and Vicegrips on expensive chrome plated brass fittings. I shudder in disbelief..... :o
    A properly fitting tool is always the best option, yes. If your tool fits correctly and is used correctly then no scratch protection should be necessary most of the time. *However, with a measured level of caution I was able to achieve the desired result with some resourcefulness and no damage, which while not always the best option, speaks for itself in its result.

  18. #18
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    Re: Giotto failing to release pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by 6D60656962687E696D610C0 link=1256351555/16#16 date=1259748619
    speaks for itself in its result.
    Fair enough but I would NEVER recommend it....

    Mal.

  19. #19
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    Re: Giotto failing to release pressure

    A quick layer of electricians tape around the nut/bolt/etc works a treat for me.

    :)

  20. #20
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    Re: Giotto failing to release pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by 426F6B676A060 link=1256351555/14#14 date=1259745236
    Yikes!

    Shifters and Vicegrips on expensive chrome plated brass fittings. I shudder in disbelief..... :o

    When you consider the value of your hardware, why not pay a visit to a reputable Tools supplier and buy good quality spanners of the exact size required. Just set them aside in a safe place until theyre needed and then you have no concerns about bruising the finish of the chrome plated components or even worse, stripping some material from the components. *Doesnt bare thinking about....

    Mal.
    My thoughts exactly Mal, read through this thread earlier and was going to post a similar comment but thought I might be regarded as a bit of a smart Alec, now that youve broken the ice, shifters and vice grips ::) why not add an 18 inch Stillson to the list, more leverage ya know. :D

  21. #21
    brett230873
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    Re: Giotto failing to release pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by 4E727B6376170 link=1256351555/19#19 date=1259762982
    Quote Originally Posted by 426F6B676A060 link=1256351555/14#14 date=1259745236
    Yikes!

    Shifters and Vicegrips on expensive chrome plated brass fittings. I shudder in disbelief..... :o

    When you consider the value of your hardware, why not pay a visit to a reputable Tools supplier and buy good quality spanners of the exact size required. Just set them aside in a safe place until theyre needed and then you have no concerns about bruising the finish of the chrome plated components or even worse, stripping some material from the components. *Doesnt bare thinking about....

    Mal.
    My thoughts exactly Mal, read through this thread earlier and was going to post a similar comment but thought I might be regarded as a bit of a smart Alec, now that youve broken the ice, shifters and vice grips ::) why not add an 18 inch Stillson to the list, more leverage ya know. :D
    Right... off we go... foreget the Stillsons and go for the Impact Air Wrench. Air cant be harmful to your chrome fittings, so dont even bother choosing a snug fitting socket, infact, the more play in the fit, the better... its like a challenge... and dont worry about burring, that is what your Turnouts are for... am I getting close? ::)

  22. #22
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    Re: Giotto failing to release pressure

    Ive never had a drama with it, gentle gentle, no metal on metal at all, tight GOOD quality shifter(no vice grips!), not a supercheap auto crappy tool, not a mark, at all, im so anal about this stuff its crazy, if i have 1 scratch on a pair of sunnies...........throw em out, not that id do that with the GPP ;D

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    Re: Giotto failing to release pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by 635F564E5B3A0 link=1256351555/19#19 date=1259762982
    My thoughts exactly Mal, read through this thread earlier and was going to post a similar comment but thought I might be regarded as a bit of a smart Alec, now that youve broken the ice, shifters and vice grips ::) why not add an 18 inch Stillson to the list, more leverage ya know. :D *
    Ive said that I recommend the right tool for the job yet people are making it sound like I recommend that people dont bother with the right tools and simply grab a pair of vice-grips and wrap it round the thing, shut your eyes and hope for the best. *Its not what I said and I dont appreciate people reading into it more than what was said.

    I mean seriously. *Take a step back guys.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Giotto failing to release pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by 2825202C272D3B2C2824490 link=1256351555/22#22 date=1259800412
    Quote Originally Posted by 635F564E5B3A0 link=1256351555/19#19 date=1259762982
    My thoughts exactly Mal, read through this thread earlier and was going to post a similar comment but thought I might be regarded as a bit of a smart Alec, now that youve broken the ice, shifters and vice grips ::) why not add an 18 inch Stillson to the list, more leverage ya know. :D *
    Ive said that I recommend the right tool for the job yet people are making it sound like I recommend that people dont bother with the right tools and simply grab a pair of vice-grips and wrap it round the thing, shut your eyes and hope for the best. *Its not what I said and I dont appreciate people reading into it more than what was said.

    I mean seriously. *Take a step back guys.
    Dont get yer knickers in a twist old son, no offence meant its all in good fun. :)



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