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Thread: Timer use for Giotto / Diadema - Will it cause circuit board failure?

  1. #1
    kbc
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    Timer use for Giotto / Diadema - Will it cause circuit board failure?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I am looking to buy a power point timer so I can get the Giotto to turn on and stabilise before I wake each morning.

    A friend did the same for his Diadema. When just 3 months old the circuit board failed. When he returned it for repair the waranty didnt cover it as the machine was turned on at the power point instead of the machine switch. Apparently this causes circuit board failures and voids warranty........

    Does anyone else have experience or advice regarding use of power point timers? Is it likely to cause probelms on a Giotto?

    Thanks all.

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    A_M
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    Re: Timer use for Giotto / Diadema - Will it cause circuit board failure?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6C5D495045080C083C0 link=1269218094/0#0 date=1269218094
    I am looking to buy a power point timer so I can get the Giotto to turn on and stabilise before I wake each morning.

    A friend did the same for his Diadema. *When just 3 months old the circuit board failed. *When he returned it for repair the waranty didnt cover it as the machine was turned on at the power point instead of the machine switch. *Apparently this causes circuit board failures and voids warranty........

    Does anyone else have experience or advice regarding use of power point timers? *Is it likely to cause probelms on a Giotto?

    Thanks all.
    Some of this makes sense (depending on the timer etc) and some of it does not...

    Sounds like there is more to it; than what has been suggested.

    1: The power switch is just that on mine and most of the machines I have seen... A DPST *and theh GPO switch should be just the same.. *Thus there must have been more to it... *

    Some timers are not RATED at high current surges and that can introduce high voltage spikes etc.. And or may only switch one line... Thus Natural OR active can still be at a 240V potential and to the machine... This has killed many tecs and home owners years ago. That is why the gpo switches today; switch both lines. *However unless ya check... Assumptions do what ???

    Short fix and reliable:

    Change ya routine; *That is get up and switch the unit ON asap. *Then by the time ya have showered / dressed and got ya self ready... The machine will be ready for ya first shot of the day....

    NOTE: Timers serve a function but are not fool proof. *What happens if your anti vac valve sticks... *45min of hissing and farting until ya water level drops and the system shuts off or you get up ... Assuming you do have a low level water cct.





  3. #3
    kbc
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    Re: Timer use for Giotto / Diadema - Will it cause circuit board failure?

    Thanks for the detailed advice...... Are there any "safe" timers to use???

    Ive seen a digital HPM timer that sets times for each day - seems like a good idea.


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    A_M
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    Re: Timer use for Giotto / Diadema - Will it cause circuit board failure?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7B4A5E47521F1B1F2B0 link=1269218094/2#2 date=1269318406
    Thanks for the detailed advice...... *Are there any "safe" timers to use??? *

    Ive seen a digital HPM timer that sets times for each day - seems like a good idea. *
    1: Dont know.. Have not needed, therefore not fully researched

    2: With out all the model and specs and other info on contacts used etc.. No comment..

    And unless all the info is provided - I can not spend hrs researching all the detail. As would also need all teh specs on your coffee Machine and Surge current details.. Thus would need to be measured to have any valid use..

    With out that info / data; any suggestion as to what is suitable, is a pig in a poke....

  5. #5
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Timer use for Giotto / Diadema - Will it cause circuit board failure?

    To be perfectly honest....

    I think your friends vendor is having a bit of a lend.....

    The only situation that I can imagine where line surges or "spikes" could be generated in this scenario, is where you might have some form of Inductive Load sharing the same GPO as the espresso machine, and then turning that load Off while the espresso machine is still turned On. Even this scenario though, requires a lot of other circumstances to fall into line in order for damaging Spikes to be generated.

    If you really want to protect the electronic boxes inside your machine, the best bet is to arrange for a qualified and licensed person to install something along the lines of the two devices at the top of this page into your switch-board. It is also possible that internally generated voltage spikes could be at fault too but this would require investigation by a suitably qualified person....

    Mal.

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    A_M
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    Re: Timer use for Giotto / Diadema - Will it cause circuit board failure?

    Quote Originally Posted by 775A5E525F330 link=1269218094/4#4 date=1269332439
    To be perfectly honest....

    I think your friends vendor is having a bit of a lend.....

    The only situation that I can imagine where line surges or "spikes" could be generated in this scenario, is where you might have some form of Inductive Load sharing the same GPO as the espresso machine, and then turning that load Off while the espresso machine is still turned On. Even this scenario though, requires a lot of other circumstances to fall into line in order for damaging Spikes to be generated.

    If you really want to protect the electronic boxes inside your machine, the best bet is to arrange for a qualified and licensed person to install something along the lines of the two devices at the top of this page into your switch-board. It is also possible that internally generated voltage spikes could be at fault too but this would require investigation by a suitably qualified person....

    Mal.
    Mal... It is one of those things as to how to cover ones ass, when all the info may not be in.. Hence my vague....... but relevant points.

    I have seen timers cook, items come on when they should not have or not come on for what ever the reason..

    And I do not intend to be held up for promoting one switch over another ;)

    That being said; any high quality timer (rated at 10A) should be OK and the fact that ya coffee machine switch is left on should not cause a problem.. That is if every thing else is OK and working as it should.

    Note.. You may want the timer to also switch off; in case you dash off and forget..


  7. #7
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Timer use for Giotto / Diadema - Will it cause circuit board failure?

    Yes mate,

    I realise where youre coming from but it all sounds very suss to me and I dont think it hurts for that opinion to be stated either....

    Mal.

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    A_M
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    Re: Timer use for Giotto / Diadema - Will it cause circuit board failure?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7F52565A573B0 link=1269218094/6#6 date=1269334163
    Yes mate,

    I realise where youre coming from but it all sounds very suss to me and I dont think it hurts for that opinion to be stated either....

    Mal.
    Yea... I would not have copped it ;) Then again - what the full story was .. Do not know.

    I was just also concerned as to who the Diadema retailer might have been ????

  9. #9
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Timer use for Giotto / Diadema - Will it cause circuit board failure?

    Quote Originally Posted by 456A63617649656A65636169616A70040 link=1269218094/7#7 date=1269335109
    I was just also concerned as to who the Diadema retailer might have been ????
    Oh well... ::)

    Mal.

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    Re: Timer use for Giotto / Diadema - Will it cause circuit board failure?

    Clipped from a USA distributors blurb for a different machine.
    Mostly, for the xxxxxxxxxx line, the defects were the heating elements that stopped functioning due to the customers lack of surge suppression. This is common problem on many espresso machines as the filament inside the heating element is very susceptible - even to the smallest surges. therefore, we always recommend acquiring a surge suppressor, and even more so when placing a timer on the espresso machine. This one we have been able to figure out.
    Make of it what you want :)

  11. #11
    A_M
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    Re: Timer use for Giotto / Diadema - Will it cause circuit board failure?

    Quote Originally Posted by 49565C4D505E525A4D3F0 link=1269218094/9#9 date=1269374309
    Clipped from a USA distributors blurb for a different machine.
    Mostly, for the xxxxxxxxxx line, the defects were the heating elements that stopped functioning due to the customers lack of surge suppression. This is common problem on many espresso machines as the filament inside the heating element is very susceptible - even to the smallest surges. therefore, we always recommend acquiring a surge suppressor, and even more so when placing a timer on the espresso machine. This one we have been able to figure out.
    Make of it what you want *:)
    Good find....

    I am sure Mal might jump in here as well.... *While some things can be sensitive, a light element is just a heating element....heating elements are a short length an interesting material.

    I am sorry.. But to me; the statement above as highlighted; is less than correct.... And smacks of a Marketing exercise...

    Control boards and some electronics can be sensitive to surges.. But if ya have a basic machine that is not controlled by fancy electronics... Then the chance of an element going OPEN cct on a surge is rare.... *

    If it shorts to the outer sheathing etc then that is a manufacturers fault. *

    Secondly if it was that common; elements would be the number one seller as just turning the main switch on, generates surges.


    [edit]
    Found this.. as another explanation that adds some extra context...

    As more and more appliances have become “smarter” they include chips vulnerable to surges. Transients are the enemy of these tiny wonders.

    Whereas a hair dryer already produces heat, these spikes are mere "pebbles" in the torrent of electrical “boulders” that normally course through the heating element.[/edit]

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    Re: Timer use for Giotto / Diadema - Will it cause circuit board failure?

    I have a filtered power board connected and use a timer on my Giotto. I figured the surge protection and filtered power was a bit of piece of mind for a $3000 machine. We have a lot of brown outs and black outs where I am.

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    A_M
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    Re: Timer use for Giotto / Diadema - Will it cause circuit board failure?

    Quote Originally Posted by 35362525323B570 link=1269218094/11#11 date=1269383988
    I have a filtered power board connected and use a timer on my Giotto. I figured the surge protection and filtered power was a bit of piece of mind for a $3000 machine. *We have a lot of brown outs and black outs where I am.
    Yep... Just remember... They are not fool proof and very few devices can protect from a direct lighting strike.. The electrons have a great need to cross significant gaps and go around and over protection.

    Now if it is other devices including stereos etc that are introducing noise etc... These filters do a good job of cutting much of the crap out. But again... It really only impacts on sensitive electronics..

    In a storm.. Un plug is teh only way to go.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Timer use for Giotto / Diadema - Will it cause circuit board failure?

    Quote Originally Posted by 634C4547506F434C4345474F474C56220 link=1269218094/12#12 date=1269392187
    very few devices can protect from a direct lighting strike..

    Is this you AM...??? :D ;D


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    A_M
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    Re: Timer use for Giotto / Diadema - Will it cause circuit board failure?

    Quote Originally Posted by 50717A7A7D67140 link=1269218094/13#13 date=1269393270
    Quote Originally Posted by 634C4547506F434C4345474F474C56220 link=1269218094/12#12 date=1269392187
    very few devices can protect from a direct lighting strike..

    Is this you AM...??? *:D ;D
    No... Not a Ranga

    Now after a cup of a good Jacobs Ladder *(pic one) * ;D :-X

    Then part two; is a win win for me, all the way round.






  16. #16
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Timer use for Giotto / Diadema - Will it cause circuit board failure?

    Spot on in above posts AM..... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

    Mal.

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    A_M
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    Re: Timer use for Giotto / Diadema - Will it cause circuit board failure?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6944404C412D0 link=1269218094/15#15 date=1269419339
    Spot on in above posts AM..... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

    Mal.
    Ya but notice... Fingers in the ears.. *The noise I cant stand the noise.


    NOTE:

    The issues that can trap.

    1: Specifications:

    Voltage: 220-240VAC 50Hz - Max Load continuous: 10A, 2400W with 30 Amp Internal Switching Contacts



    2: Specifications: Easily control any 240V mains appliance rated up to 10A

    Voltage: 220-240VAC 50Hz - Max Load 10A , 2400W


    Now item two on closer inspection, is only rated at load surge of 10A and 1A continuous. Thus one can get caught... If it is not clearly stated and only implied... Assumptions will get ya every time.

  18. #18
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Timer use for Giotto / Diadema - Will it cause circuit board failure?

    Quote Originally Posted by 527D7476615E727D7274767E767D67130 link=1269218094/12#12 date=1269392187
    very few devices can protect from a direct lighting strike
    Hence it being my weapon of choice.

    Ive had my Expobar on a timer for years with no problems.

  19. #19
    kbc
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    Re: Timer use for Giotto / Diadema - Will it cause circuit board failure?

    Great detail - Thanks all for the comments :D

    Im not sure who the Diadema retailer was, but expect they may have done a dodgy to charge him for a replacement board. Ill find out.


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    Re: Timer use for Giotto / Diadema - Will it cause circuit board failure?

    Hi Guys, Girls

    Dont know who the agent was and dont care but that really makes me upset to here that, the Guys from BFC(manufactures of the Diadema) in Italy are very nice people and very accommodating when it comes to warranty issues. Dont want it to sound like I am trying to get more work through bad mouthing someone else but if anyone else finds themselves in this situation please give us a call and well see if we can help you.

  21. #21
    kbc
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    Re: Timer use for Giotto / Diadema - Will it cause circuit board failure?

    An update - Ill be trying an HPM timer (from Bunnings). It is digital and be set to turn on and off on differnt times on different days. Ill take the risk on the board.....


  22. #22
    Coffee+carbon=heaven Mono's Avatar
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    Re: Timer use for Giotto / Diadema - Will it cause circuit board failure?

    Pauly I run my Junior each morning through an electronic digital timer, no problems. :)

    Steve.



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