Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10

    ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi folks, thought Id try the forum with my problem. My giotto has been at the repair shop 3x times and they return it each time saying no fault found. Its been hard for the repair shop to troubleshoot as I thought it was intermittent. They switch it on, pull some shots and say "its fine" and send it back to me.

    After lots of testing at home, I have worked out that this problem doesnt happen right after its been switched on. Here is the routine that causes my Giotto to fail:

    1. Switch on and wait 30 mins to pressure up.
    2. Pressure is normal, test water temp coming from group head - normal.
    3. Pull a couple of "god" shots from my naked PF. Good steam and pressure.
    4. Leave the machine switched on for a good 4-5hours.
    5. Dose another shot (Mazzer Mini) and run the water from the Giotto for 10 secs. OK. Pressure normal.
    6. Pull the shot. Extraction starts, runs for about 5 seconds. and then the whole machine stops. The extraction, and from what I can tell, the pump sound inside starts and stops and little dribbles of the extraction falls into the cup. It then stops altogether after producing around 15ml of a double shot.

    Anyone experienced anything like this? I am simply shutting my machine on and off all day to make sure I can get coffee out of it at the moment.

    Ill post a video of this if there is sufficient interest in this thread.

  2. #2
    A_M
    A_M is offline
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,381

    Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

    What do you mean STOPS ?

    Detail please -


    How do you restart ?


    Detail please -

    I have two thoughts but need more detail... Lots of detail... Do not assume I can see the machine or what your doing.

  3. #3
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

    Quote Originally Posted by 717D74747777617C2270120 link=1270764813/0#0 date=1270764813
    Hi folks, thought Id try the forum with my problem. My giotto has been at the repair shop 3x times and they return it each time saying no fault found. Its been hard for the repair shop to troubleshoot as I thought it was intermittent. They switch it on, pull some shots and say "its fine" and send it back to me. *

    After lots of testing at home, I have worked out that this problem doesnt happen right after its been switched on. Here is the routine that causes my Giotto to fail:

    1. Switch on and wait 30 mins to pressure up.
    2. Pressure is normal, test water temp coming from group head - normal.
    3. Pull a couple of "god" shots from my naked PF. Good steam and pressure.
    4. Leave the machine switched on for a good 4-5hours.
    5. Dose another shot (Mazzer Mini) and run the water from the Giotto for 10 secs. OK. Pressure normal.
    6. Pull the shot. Extraction starts, runs for about 5 seconds. and then the whole machine stops. The extraction, and from what I can tell, the pump sound inside starts and stops and little dribbles of the extraction falls into the cup. It then stops altogether after producing around 15ml of a double shot.

    Anyone experienced anything like this? I am simply shutting my machine on and off all day to make sure I can get coffee out of it at the moment.

    Ill post a video of this if there is sufficient interest in this thread.
    Hi CS.

    Your machine thinks it has no water. Its an easy fix and I am surprised your agent doesnt know why it happens at your place and not his:

    • Clean the tank probe and screw in the coupling
    • Remove boiler probe assembly and clean the probe too
    • Remove the coupling from the base of the tank and pack it out a little- Gas Teflon or or a teflon spacer can be used for identical effect


    This can happen with the GPP and heavily filtered water or GP with the new Proelind control board. If there are no dissolved solids, the water cannot conduct charge and machine thinks its empty..

    Tell us about your filtration, if any?

    Hope that helps. You might like to tell your service bloke as well ::)

    If youd like to bring it in, I am happy to look over it for you....

    Chris



  4. #4
    A_M
    A_M is offline
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,381

    Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

    Quote Originally Posted by 57626F685C406C65656666030 link=1270764813/2#2 date=1270765395
    Hi CS.

    Your machine thinks it has no water. Its an easy fix and I am surprised your agent doesnt know why it happens at your place and not his:

    Clean the tank probe and screw in the coupling
    Remove boiler probe assembly and clean the probe too
    Remove the coupling from the base of the tank and pack it out a little- Gas Teflon or or a teflon spacer can be used for identical effect


    This can happen with the GPP and heavily filtered water or GP with the new Proelind control board. If there are no dissolved solids, the water cannot conduct charge and machine thinks its empty..

    Tell us about your filtration, if any?

    Hope that helps. You might like to tell your service bloke as well

    If youd like to bring it in, I am happy to look over it for you....

    Chris
    I like it...


    I also assumed that he would just turn OFF / reset and all would be fine again...

    Also assumed a low water experience would give some visual indication ie. Flashing led etc..

    Due to the working and on for a few hrs.. The term stop.. To me, meant NO Power / No Pump or even ELCB.

    Thus am aware that some of the vibe pumps have resettable OT sensors or teh Boiler etc.

    Got caught with a BZ that would go off after a few hrs.. But would run with the covers off :-) Liked to be naked ;) Had me baffled for a while but the the sensor was faulty...


  5. #5
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    17,098

    Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

    Geez AM....

    That new avatar of yours looks a bit gruesome.... :(

    The aftermath of an electrical flash-over is it?

    Mal.

  6. #6
    A_M
    A_M is offline
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,381

    Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

    Quote Originally Posted by 674A4E424F230 link=1270764813/4#4 date=1270793275
    Geez AM....

    That new avatar of yours looks a bit gruesome.... :(

    The aftermath of an electrical flash-over is it?

    Mal.
    Na just needed a coffee body scrub... Gives you that all over tingly feeling.

    Opps

    BOT.


    So coffeesn0b what was the outcome ?

  7. #7
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    17,098

    Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

    Phew....

    Thats a relief mate. One of my old bosses at GEC looked a bit like that after an ACB carriage shorted across the bus and blew out over him while he was racking it in..... :o

    Mal.

  8. #8
    A_M
    A_M is offline
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,381

    Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

    Quote Originally Posted by 1C31353934580 link=1270764813/6#6 date=1270795065
    Phew....

    Thats a relief mate. One of my old bosses at GEC looked a bit like that after an ACB carriage shorted across the bus and blew out over him while he was racking it in..... :o

    Mal.
    Molten metal ... Reminds me... Where did I put my watch... *Forever taking it off when working on this carp and can never find it.. *

    Took my wedding ring and another family ring off the other month.. *Still can not find them...

    Trust me... Some where safe.

    Interesting enough... She has not noticed *;D :D :o

  9. #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10

    Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

    Thanks to those who responded. I have made a very rushed video clip to illustrate the problem. Its uploading to youtube now.

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10

    Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

    Quote Originally Posted by 200F0604132C000F0006040C040F15610 link=1270764813/1#1 date=1270765201
    What do you mean STOPS ?

    Detail please -


    How do you restart ?


    Detail please -

    I have two thoughts but need more detail... Lots of detail... Do not assume I can see the machine or what your doing.

    You are all right. The word "Stop" is a little misleading. The pump sounds like it is stopping and starting. The machine appears to still be "on" though. Hopefully the video will shed some light on my poor descriptions


    "Restart" means I need to switch it off for at least an hour and then back on again. Switching it on and off does not solve the issue.

    Also when I remove the PortaF and pull the lever it immediately starts pumping water through. Weird.

  11. #11
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10

    Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

    Here is the video of my Giotto being a pain:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iXG2FuYSoY

    also...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozBkNjc4ijM

    What do you guys reckon?

  12. #12
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

    Quote Originally Posted by 575B52525151475A0456340 link=1270764813/10#10 date=1271548002
    Here is the video of my Giotto being a pain:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iXG2FuYSoY

    also...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozBkNjc4ijM

    What do you guys reckon?
    I reckon the shots are choking and that you might also consider taking your machine to a service agent to have it checked....

  13. #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10

    Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

    This only happens once the machine has been sitting for more than 5-6hrs without changing any variables. (grind, tamp)

    Once it starts doing this, the only way to get it going again is to shut it off and let it cool for an hour or so.

    The service agent has had it 3x times but cant find fault because they switch it on, test it ok, and put it back on the shelf! *Time to find another service agent I think...

  14. #14
    pip
    pip is offline
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    37

    Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

    Hi coffeesn0b ,
    * * * * * * * * * * *it isnt something really obscure like a microswitch fault - you could see *if putting a piece of thick cardboard between the cam and the microswitch and pulling a shot ( effectively adjusting the microswitch plunger travel).Maybe the group is moving relative to the switch plunger through *thermal expansion of the front panel . Or - if the Ulka pump is fitted with a PTC resistor ( some machines do , lots dont ) maybe its just aged and is now only just capable of *running the pump when cold - and the additional self heating when the machine is hot and the pump is started cause the pump to stop.
    The other test to try (( Qualified person only please - its dangerous !! ) is to disconnect the autofill sensor to the boiler as a shot is being pulled AND the machine is hot - the boiler fill 2 way valve should click in , and the pump should run continuously ( but dont try it for too long and over fill the boiler ) - you can sort of *emulate this by running hot *water *from the boiler white a shot is running .

    time to do an experiment or 2 !

    pip.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    793

    Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

    Quote Originally Posted by 73464B4C78644841414242270 link=1270764813/11#11 date=1271549092
    I reckon the shots are choking and that you might also consider taking your machine to a service agent to have it checked....
    hi chris i agree with the second statement. take it into chris at TalkCoffee or Craig at 9Bar
    it doesnt seem to me like the shot choking coz the initial part of the extraction looks ok...

    on a side note, unless its the vid camera, those beans dont look like theyre producing much crema in your long black there...

  16. #16
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10

    Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

    Unfortunately Im in New Zealand these days. (I bought it in Melbourne many years ago now) and the only qualified repairers I know of around here are Espresso Engineers.

    I think they are just too flat out busy to take a serious look at it as they have had it 3x times and cant find any fault. Thanks to everyone that contributed. Ill let you all know if I find a solution.

  17. #17
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10

    Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

    For those of you who are interested in this problem I have been having, I thought I would post an update. I got hold of a volt meter to monitor current into the pump. Once I got the cover off the machine, I had to leave it to start misbehaving. Well since I took the cover off, it has not played up at all. It has been switched on now for 5 days and has made dozens of coffees without an issue. Weird.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBOZsNxr3pU

  18. #18
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496

    Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

    Quote Originally Posted by 464A43434040564B1547250 link=1270764813/16#16 date=1272661356
    Weird.
    Nows the time to put the cover back on and see what happens over the next 5 days.

  19. #19
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10

    Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

    OK. Cover went back on. After leaving it going for about 12 hours, it started to play up again. Lends towards the theory that it is heat related I guess.

  20. #20
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

    Quote Originally Posted by 707C75757676607D2371130 link=1270764813/18#18 date=1274239940
    OK. Cover went back on. After leaving it going for about 12 hours, it started to play up again. Lends towards the theory that it is heat related I guess.
    Hi cs,

    Based on the results of your experimentation, I think its either control board or wiring loom related. Might be time to cut your losses and replace both.

    Your repairer should also rewire the pressurestat to 240V as per 2010 specs at the same time. It will be a $300ish job, but will solve it once and for all.



Similar Threads

  1. !!!SOLD!!! - FS: ECM Giotto Premium Plus
    By barnsey in forum SOLD
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 1st July 2013, 08:05 AM
  2. question - Giotto PP or giotto premium?
    By cafe_lover in forum Brewing Equipment - Pointy End ($1500-$3000)
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 30th January 2010, 12:16 PM
  3. Differnce between Giotto Premium and Premium plus
    By patto21 in forum Brewing Equipment - Pointy End ($1500-$3000)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 1st February 2009, 07:59 PM
  4. The New Giotto Premium Plus
    By Di_Bartoli in forum Brewing Equipment - Pointy End ($1500-$3000)
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 15th August 2008, 04:02 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •