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Thread: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

  1. #1
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I noticed that this new coffee machine has come to market, and being the curious type, thought it might be appropriate to start a discussion thread.

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1251458192

    "In functional terms, the Shuttle is built entirely from genuine Italian parts"

    Does this mean that the internal components are Italian and the frame and skin come from somewhere else?

    Where is it assembled?

    28kg is pretty heavy for a machine with a vibe pump. What makes it 5kg heavier than the machine you compare it to on the website?

    In the photo of the Shuttle, the skin looks distorted. Is it just the quality of the photo that makes it look like this?

    The website compares this machine to another well-known machine (Rolls Royce), and pretty much, says the Shuttle (Bentley) is better. How so?

    Cheers!




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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 11303B3B3C26550 link=1271316295/0#0 date=1271316295
    built entirely from genuine Italian parts
    Interesting observations Dennis.....

    Thinking about it, I am not sure if that would apply to any machine, be it Ferrari, Fiat or Great Wall* :-/

    I wonder where pumps/pressurestats/boilers/solenoids et al are manufactured? More research required.....I *think* a lot of boiler manufacture happens in Asia for example?

    I recall that Diamond said the Italia was all Italy. My opinion was that it was more likely from the Chinese prefecture of Italy....

    Without seeing the Shuttle, its hard to make any conclusions I guess but given that a Minore III and VBM DS are both 28kg, it would be interesting to have a gander to see what makes it so heavy....


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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    The 2 year warranty is a big plus do any other brand offer 2 years? *

    the "made in Italy" would effect most brands wouldnt it?

    much like BMW made in Mexico, or Holden made in Spain not Australia....

    Leeham

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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Maybe a Sydney CSer could pop in for a test (with their camera). Ask questions and write up a review of the machine.

    Im sure a lot of folk on a budget would be interested in this if its up to the specifications and build quality that it stated on the website.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 28242D202029450 link=1271316295/2#2 date=1271318787
    The 2 year warranty is a big plus
    Agree. And in the 2 years or so that Ive been selling machines that have a 12 month warranty period, I have never had one come back in need of repair - either inside or outside that period. Certainly, this could happen with any machine, but I believe that if it doesnt break within the first 12 months, then its unlikely to break in the next 12.


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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 04292B2D202125480 link=1271316295/3#3 date=1271319518
    Maybe a Sydney CSer could pop in for a test (with their camera)
    Good idea. Its only ever a snap shot though....Take the Scace too!

    Quote Originally Posted by 5C7D7676716B180 link=1271316295/4#4 date=1271321156
    I believe that if it doesnt break within the first 12 months, then its unlikely to break in the next 12.
    Agreed, if there is an issue, it normally presents pretty quickly, or you have a long life with no issues. Most top end home machines are really just souped up kettles and pretty simple...

    Lucky Sumbean doesnt offer a 2 year warranty....Theyd be in liquidation! *;D

  7. #7
    dodgy
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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Hi Guys,

    Id be delighted to lend a Shuttle to someone in the Coffeesnobs community for the purposes of putting it through its paces and reviewing it.

    Preferably Id like the machine to be reviewed by someone not affiliated with a competitor of course!

    Anyone interested can contact us by clicking on the E61 sponsor link.

    The Shuttle will be available in a small select number of retail outlets shortly.

    Regards


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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 6A191E2F0 link=1271316295/6#6 date=1271331606
    Hi Guys,

    Id be delighted to lend a Shuttle to someone in the Coffeesnobs community for the purposes of putting it through its paces and reviewing it.

    Preferably Id like the machine to be reviewed by someone not affiliated with a competitor of course!

    Anyone interested can contact us by clicking on the E61 sponsor link.

    The Shuttle will be available in a small select number of retail outlets shortly.

    Regards
    [smiley=thumbsup.gif] Good stuff e-61!

    This will be a great opportunity for a CSer to have a good play....

    2mcm


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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 772830262D262A2323202028242B450 link=1271316295/7#7 date=1271331707
    Good stuff e-61!
    This thread is a bloody good example of great CS sponsors working together with a common goal without the sometimes crappy competitiveness of "other" forums.......great unbiased reviews and brilliant coffee [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

    That why we all hang around!

    PS and for TGs sense of humor ::)

    BOT

  10. #10
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 5F2C2B1A0 link=1271316295/6#6 date=1271331606
    Id be delighted to lend a Shuttle to someone in the Coffeesnobs community for the purposes of putting it through its paces and reviewing it.
    Watch out - youll find a queue forming all the way up York St.!

    Quote Originally Posted by 28776F797279757C7C7F7F777B741A0 link=1271316295/7#7 date=1271331707
    Good stuff e-61!
    I agree! 8-)


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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Good thread ..... I clicked on the sponsor link to E61 by chance over the weekend and stumbled across the "Shuttle" and quickly came back to do a search which resulted in nothing. I had intended to ask for experiences with the machine but I was beaten to it.

    E61 ..... you state that the Shuttle will be available in a small select number of retail outlets shortly. Without giving too much away would these stores cover warranty issues in different states or will it be return to NSW?

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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Ill put my hands up to run it through its paces.

    Cheers,
    Luca

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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 5C2F28190 link=1271316295/6#6 date=1271331606
    Anyone interested can contact us by clicking on the E61 sponsor link.
    Ill think about it but having wheeled the new clothes dryer home from Lakemba because it wouldnt fit in the car Im not too sure about how Id get it home on the bus (no parking in York St).

    Quote Originally Posted by 4E4A6C7575706F7877190 link=1271316295/8#8 date=1271332200
    That why we all hang around!

    PS and for TGs sense of humor
    ;)

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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Good Morning Coffeesnobs,

    Just to let you know we share an office space in York Street Sydney and it is used for administration and operational purposes.

    Whilst we are always happy to meet customers we would ask that you ring to make an appointment first.

    Thanks for the great response last night. I expect we will have more people ask to test the Shuttle today!

    In an attempt to be as fair as possible our plan now is to get a couple of machines out. One in NSW, One in VIC and perhaps one in another state if anyone is interested.

    The E61 team




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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Dear Sir Stinkalot

    Quote Originally Posted by 477D664B47607D7A7F75787B60140 link=1271316295/10#10 date=1271335004
    E61 ..... you state that the Shuttle will be available in a small select number of retail outlets shortly. Without giving too much away would these stores cover warranty issues in different states or will it be return to NSW?
    We are just completing negotiations with service centres in metropolitan Victoria and Queensland and expect these to be formally online in the next week or so. Until then the Shuttle can be returned to us in Sydney (at our expense) for warranty issues. This will also be the procedure (for a while at least) for purchasers outside Victoria, NSW and Queensland.

    Regards

    The E61 Team


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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Nice to see E61 join in the discussion.
    Ill put my hands up to run it through its paces.

    Cheers,
    Luca
    Ill put in a vote for Luca to review the Shuttle, his Maver Makin review was excellant.

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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 425D57465B55595146340 link=1271316295/15#15 date=1271373057
    Ill put in a vote for Luca to review the Shuttle, his Maver Makin review was excellant.
    X2, lucas reviews on anything are fantastic ;)

  18. #18
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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    For whoever does a review: It would be nice to see a shootout with the other machines in the price range e.g Isomac Tea and Exobar Leva.

  19. #19
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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    It would be difficult to give a "shootout" style review if youre not associated with a competitor.


    For us CS who dont have access to a Scace, it might also be difficult to give a technical sort of review.

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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Im happy to do a review - side by side with a Minore III. Maybe visit Dennis and do a scace?

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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Hmm...I smell a Sydney CS gathering :P

    Not at your place Ben, wed just piss off the cat lady.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 6A626D6B63393C080 link=1271316295/19#19 date=1271383129
    Im happy to do a review - side by side with a Minore III. Maybe visit Dennis and do a scace?
    Thanks for thinking of me Ben. While Id love to participate, there would exist at least a perception that I may be biased. The irony in that is that we all are.

    Lets be clear. This machine is being marketed as a direct competitor to the GPP, and therefore, if comparisons are to be made, then they should be made accordingly.


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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 0D2C2727203A490 link=1271316295/21#21 date=1271384123
    Quote Originally Posted by 6A626D6B63393C080 link=1271316295/19#19 date=1271383129
    Im happy to do a review - side by side with a Minore III. Maybe visit Dennis and do a scace?
    Thanks for thinking of me Ben. *While Id love to participate, there would exist at least a perception that I may be biased. *The irony in that is that we all are. *

    Lets be clear. *This machine is being marketed as a direct competitor to the GPP, and therefore, if comparisons are to be made, then they should be made accordingly.
    Yer good point. And valid that if a side by side comparison could be made, the GPP would be perfect to do it against.

    WotB - appreciate your concern for the cat lady ;)

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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 1B3A3131362C5F0 link=1271316295/21#21 date=1271384123
    Lets be clear. *This machine is being marketed as a direct competitor to the GPP, and therefore, if comparisons are to be made, then they should be made accordingly.
    Unless I am mistaken the GPP is in a different price bracket ($1995 vs $2999). I dont selll coffee machines for a living but I would imagine the price would be a huge factor for most customers.

    For me what is important is how does the machine compare to other machines in the price range. e.g. Isomac tea, maybe Domobar Jnr.

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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    The thing is its basically the same machine, major component wise, thats why they are up against each other, not price.

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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 6E7264060 link=1271316295/23#23 date=1271385757
    Quote Originally Posted by 1B3A3131362C5F0 link=1271316295/21#21 date=1271384123
    Lets be clear. *This machine is being marketed as a direct competitor to the GPP, and therefore, if comparisons are to be made, then they should be made accordingly.
    Unless I am mistaken the GPP is in a different price bracket ($1995 vs $2999). I dont selll coffee machines for a living but I would imagine the price would be a huge factor for most customers.

    For me what is important is how does the machine compare to other machines in the price range. e.g. Isomac tea, maybe Domobar Jnr.
    Its the fact that it has been marketed directly against the GPP as mentioned above.

  27. #27
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 666E61676F3530040 link=1271316295/25#25 date=1271386168
    Its the fact that it has been marketed directly against the GPP as mentioned above. *
    Correct. *And the way I read the blurb, the Shuttle is said to be better.

    So to expand, I think if any reviews come about, the Shuttle should be assessed on, 1) its own merits, and 2) a comparison to the GPP.

    ps. My personal opinion is that very few machines compare to the Isomac Tea. This is a good thing. :P


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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    I realise that but to me personally a review comparing a $2000 machine vs a $3000 machine will make an entertaining read but would probably not help me make a purchasing decision.

    I guess it comes down to who the target audience is for this review.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 687462000 link=1271316295/27#27 date=1271387089
    I realise that
    Which is why I said:

    Quote Originally Posted by 44656E6E6973000 link=1271316295/26#26 date=1271386737
    should be assessed on, 1) its own merits

  30. #30
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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 485442200 link=1271316295/27#27 date=1271387089
    I realise that but to me personally a review comparing a $2000 machine vs a $3000 machine will make an entertaining read but would probably not help me make a purchasing decision.

    I guess it comes down to who the target audience is for this review.
    Not necessarily. If they are saying its as good as a GPP but $1000 cheaper, then it should be compared to a GPP in any review. Then depending on the results, the customer can decide if its worth paying the extra money for the GPP.

    Comparisons should be made on specs eg boiler size, tank size, power, overall dimensions.

    Comparisons can be difficult in this range of machine. For example I bought a VBM Jnr, for a few hundred more I could have had a GPP or domus galatea or Diadema junior extra. But I physically didnt have the room for it and the wife totally barred anything too big - so hence the VBM jnr. So there are lots of considerations that need to be made - however from a reviewers point of view, if its a similar specced machine then its fair game.

    By the way, a review is not going to be able to discern how a machine will fair with time - only sales history over
    time can determine that. So even if the shuttle does well in making coffee during the review, no one knows if it will be a problematic machine until you have some history behind it.

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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread


    How is it being compared to the GPP? Where does the promotional material mention the GPP?

    I would have thought their Technika was more the one to compare Vs the GPP.


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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    How is it being compared to the GPP? Where does the promotional material mention the GPP?
    I agree
    Theres a lot of babelfish in that promo, it tends to put me off a bit.
    Would love to see a write up of it though.

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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    I dont understand how people are confused?

    e61 say:
    "In design terms, the Shuttle is a similiar espresso machine to the Giotto"
    "If, as one coffee writer described the Giotto as being the Rolls Royce of Filter Handle Espresso Machines, then our E61 Shuttle is its Bentley!"

    The "shuttle" is their OWN machine - the technika is made by ECM germany and uses the same internals as a Domus Galatea.


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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Just had a poke around on the net, there really is nothing on it hey! no youtube vids, and the only results i got from google were here on CS and E-61 :o

    Thats what i call new on the scene :o

    Looking forward to the non biased review ;)

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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    In that case, I stand corrected *:-[

    My fault for skim-reading.

    OK then, bring on the reviews! *;)

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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    I am also standing here corrected :-[ I just read the CS promo, I didnt go to the site.
    Yeah bring on the review

  37. #37
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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 676F60666E3431050 link=1271316295/32#32 date=1271394503
    I dont understand how people are confused?

    e61 say:
    "In design terms, the Shuttle is a similiar espresso machine to the Giotto"
    "If, as one coffee writer described the Giotto as being the Rolls Royce of Filter Handle Espresso Machines, then our E61 Shuttle is its Bentley!"

    The "shuttle" is their OWN machine - the technika is made by ECM germany and uses the same internals as a Domus Galatea.
    :-? I am not so sure that its appropriate to compare this machine to a Giotto as its not in the same price bracket. In fact, I dont think its really appropriate to compare it to any other machine to be honest.

    Its either a good machine and will stand on its own (four) feet, or it isnt. To compare it is almost like saying its a wannabe Giotto to me. There are plenty of good and bad machines with similar specs to a Giotto, but theyre not Giottos either.. ;)

    Either the photos are not much chop or the finish is not as good but I cant judge that as I havent seen one. No doubt Luca will be able to make a call on that one.

    Why not compare it to the Expobar eb-61 leva? Seems to have a lot in common with that one as well- including price point...

    Id also be curious to hear some more details- along the lines of Dennis questions.

    Good luck with it Matt. Hope it is a successful machine for you.

    Chris

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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    what about the comparisons about Izzo alex and GS3

    they are not in the same price bracket but have been compared here.....

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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 4E7B76714559757C7C7F7F1A0 link=1271316295/36#36 date=1271396297
    To compare it is almost like saying its a wannabe Giotto to me...
    Isnt that the exact market they are going for???

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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 7F737A77777E120 link=1271316295/37#37 date=1271396760
    what about the comparisons about Izzo alex and GS3

    they are not in the same price bracket but have been compared here.....
    ;D Who tried to do that? We all know the Izzo is far superior ;) :-[


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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 1124292E1A062A23232020450 link=1271316295/39#39 date=1271396994
    Quote Originally Posted by 7F737A77777E120 link=1271316295/37#37 date=1271396760
    what about the comparisons about Izzo alex and GS3

    they are not in the same price bracket but have been compared here.....
    ;D Who tried to do that? We all know the Izzo is far superior *;) :-[
    :P I had a laugh

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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 0C393433071B373E3E3D3D580 link=1271316295/36#36 date=1271396297
    In fact, I dont think its really appropriate to compare it to any other machine to be honest.
    Quote Originally Posted by 0C393433071B373E3E3D3D580 link=1271316295/36#36 date=1271396297
    There are plenty of good and bad machines with similar specs to a Giotto, but theyre not Giottos either.. ;)
    Quote Originally Posted by 0C393433071B373E3E3D3D580 link=1271316295/36#36 date=1271396297
    finish is not as good *
    We (and you) compare machines every day of the week. Its why you push certain machines over others

  43. #43
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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 20282721297376420 link=1271316295/41#41 date=1271397291
    Its why you push certain machines over others
    Ben, Ive never heard Chris push one machine from the Talk Coffee range over another, and I adopt the same approach - tell it like it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by 16232E291D012D24242727420 link=1271316295/36#36 date=1271396297
    Id also be curious to hear some more details- along the lines of Dennis questions.
    And yes, Im still curious too, and surely we dont need a review to discover the answers.


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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 5A7B7070776D1E0 link=1271316295/42#42 date=1271400834
    Quote Originally Posted by 20282721297376420 link=1271316295/41#41 date=1271397291
    Its why you push certain machines over others
    Ben, Ive never heard Chris push one machine from the Talk Coffee range over another, and I adopt the same approach - tell it like it is.
    Sorry I didnt mean it like that. More like the Isomac Tea runs hotter than a Giotto or Junior Extra

  45. #45
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 60686761693336020 link=1271316295/43#43 date=1271401527
    Quote Originally Posted by 5A7B7070776D1E0 link=1271316295/42#42 date=1271400834
    Quote Originally Posted by 20282721297376420 link=1271316295/41#41 date=1271397291
    Its why you push certain machines over others
    Ben, Ive never heard Chris push one machine from the Talk Coffee range over another, and I adopt the same approach - tell it like it is.
    Sorry I didnt mean it like that. More like the Isomac Tea runs hotter than a Giotto or Junior Extra
    Oh. Well that would be the truth.

  46. #46
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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    My CKX beats it hands down! Hot as the sun!

    You never know what youll find in a dumpster...Like that GS3 out back of Chris place *;D

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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Think the main thing here is that machine get judged on its own merits.

    Dont agree with the marketing of comparing it to a Giotto "at 2/3 of the price". One is a new machine with a untried history in the market and the other is a machine that has undergone several generations of R & D and improvements with an established distributor network and proven after sales support for spare parts and troubleshooting.

    Would love to see this machine reviewed by a un-bias snob with a technical background e.g Luca and that way we can nip the speculation and marketing in the butt and come up with some form of quasi-empirical evidence (as much as you can in the coffee industry *;D ;D ;D)

    Ultimately time will tell if the machine has a place in the market based on sales and snobs personal experiences. *:)


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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Agree with you Roger but believe that a review in isolation, is just that... One persons opinion. I would prefer to see at least two independent reviews completed by persons of known, respected industry credentials and preferably still working within the industry. Luca certainly fits that bill but another with similar credentials would be ideal.

    It would also be advantageous if the reviewers were located in say Melbourne and Brisbane... This would provide an opportunity for interested (and independent) CSers to inspect and perhaps pull a few shots using coffee with which they have an intimate knowledge. Nothing like proving the pudding ;) ::)... Sydney-siders, of course, have the advantage that they can visit E-61s premises should they want to inspect and perhaps have a "drive" of the new machine..... ;)

    Mal.

  49. #49
    TC
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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 022F2B272A460 link=1271316295/47#47 date=1271407007
    Agree with you Roger but believe that a review in isolation, is just that... One persons opinion. I would prefer to see at least two independent reviews completed by persons of known, respected industry credentials and preferably still working within the industry. Luca certainly fits that bill but another with similar credentials would be ideal.

    It would also be advantageous if the reviewers were located in say Melbourne and Brisbane... This would provide an opportunity for interested (and independent) CSers to inspect and perhaps pull a few shots using coffee with which they have an intimate knowledge. Nothing like proving the pudding ;) ::)... Sydney-siders, of course, have the advantage that they can visit E-61s premises should they want to inspect and perhaps have a "drive" of the new machine..... ;)

    Mal.
    I am happy to offer to host one at the Talk Coffee shed (after Luca has had a play?) for say a week? We would *offer an open house so that any CSer who would like a look/play can come and make their own evaluation.... if e-61 is up for it that is... :-?

    This is an honest offer to open the machine up to Melbourne purchasers who can then do buisiness with e-61 if they choose to...Thats if e-61 is prepared to give it a go.

    Quote Originally Posted by 04342F212E322334152F2223460 link=1271316295/46#46 date=1271403682
    Dont agree with the marketing of comparing it to a Giotto "at 2/3 of the price". One is a new machine with a untried history in the market and the other is a machine that has undergone several generations of R & D and improvements with an established distributor network and proven after sales support for spare parts and troubleshooting.
    Agreed...Its not very good form in my opinion. Everything is built to a price....



  50. #50
    dodgy
    Join Date
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    Re: "Shuttle" Discussion thread

    Chris, Roger and Mal,

    I hear what you are saying and I appreciate the feedback.

    Ive removed any reference which compares the Shuttle to the Giotto from the E61 website.

    Ive done that for two reasons.

    1. In hindsight the comparison wasnt entirely respectful
    2. We are confident the Shuttle will stand on its own - in its own market segment.


    Ill also give some thought to sending the Shuttle to Talk Coffee for evaluation.

    I also hear what people are saying in terms of reviews versus hands on assessments.

    Weve made the decision to keep the price of the Shuttle as low as possible. This means it hasnt been structured to be resold, which in turn means it isnt as "available" to road test as some machinery currently is.

    The plan is to continue to seek a compromise.

    In the mean time Im still very happy to loan out a Shuttle to any appropriate reviewers.

    I had thought of approaching Peter Cairis?



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