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Thread: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

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    Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi all,

    Do the DJEs have a very low screen? Well after playing with a 5 cent piece Ive discovered they do.

    Well I thought I was going pretty well with my technique on my new DJE...but after recently doing the 5 cent test, Ive discovered Ive been over dosing the double basket. After packing the basket with a couple of taps on the way, and leveling off I tamp quite hard and still the 5 cent piece gets stuck on my shower screen.

    Anyway so same procedure except this time, I ground finer. After a decent tamp...the neck of my tamper is now flush with the top of the basket. I put the 5 cent on top...and still gets stuck *:o

    What do you think I should do...not level off and just tamp on top of the mound (Ive seen this done by a few Batistas competing in comps)...or grind even finer? Im already seeing a little wetness on top of my puck.

    Any ideas and advice would be great.

    Thanks,

    IB

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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Hello Italian Bean.

    Sorry but cant go past this one.

    Suggest you talk to your supplier re your operational technique because the DJE uses the same group head & shower as all other E61 machines use, and as far as I know none of them have "low shower screens" or, if the DJE has it... then they all do.....! :)

    Regardz,
    Attilio
    very first CS site sposnor.

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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Agree with Attilio IB...

    My Double Shot dose runs to 20g+ and after a 10Kg tamp, it does not contact the Shower Screen before the shot is pulled. I think you may be trying to dose way too much in the basket mate.... ;)

    Try adjusting your dose downwards until such time as you achieve clearance from the Shower Screen, taking note of the volume of ground coffee used at this point so the Dose can be consistently repeated. After this, just adjust the Grind Setting Coarser/Finer to achieve an ideal pour volume in the requisite time frame... :)

    Mal.

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    TC
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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Hi IB,

    You are most welcome to pop in with your machine and grinder and well gladly run you through how to get the best from it. Alternately, we can use our demo model Diadema Regal and your own grinder (and coffee if you like), so that you have something you know is right when you get home- environmental variables notwithstanding! ;)

    I agree with Mal and Attilio, that its consistent with other machines.

    For mine, the 5c test is relatively crude. Better to learn a few different ways of dosing to allow you to consistently put a great result into the cup.

    If youd like to give me a buzz, we can arrange a time....

    Chris

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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6F5A57506478545D5D5E5E3B0 link=1271933172/3#3 date=1271938369
    For mine, the 5c test is relatively crude. Better to learn a few different ways of dosing to allow you to consistently put a great result into the cup.
    Yep, I agree Chris....

    I spose its a good starting point for a newbie 1,000Km from the nearest service centre but if youre only a stones throw away from one of our Site Sponsors, then its a no brainer really....

    Mal.

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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Thanks guys for your feedback.

    The reason I was thinking it was the shower screen is because Ive heard from a number of people that depending on your machine the height of the screen will be different. I didnt know that all e-61 heads have the same shower screen height relative to the top of the group handle when locking it in.

    If I do a clearance test without the 5c piece by locking in the group handle and then unlocking without pulling the shot. Should I be seeing a depression on my tamped bed of coffee. What I see is a perfect ring about 2-3mm thick that is on the outer edge of my basket. I am assuming this is caused by the gap between my screen and the seal. Which indicates overdose, right?

    So is it safe to say if I do the same test and gradually reduce my dose until I dont see this ring around the outside of my tamped bed of coffee I am on the money with regards to clearance? Should there be a slight depression in the middle of the basket (i.e the screen just brushing the surface)?


    Chris - thanks for the offerr..I may just take you up on it. :)

    Cheers,
    IB

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    A_M
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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Quote Originally Posted by 64515C5B6F735F56565555300 link=1271933172/3#3 date=1271938369
    For mine, the 5c test is relatively crude.
    To an experienced person it may be crude... But to those starting out..

    Quote Originally Posted by 7944515C59515E6F7255515E300 link=1271933172/0#0 date=1271933172
    I put the 5 cent on top...and still gets stuck
    What do you mean gets stuck..


    In essence what ya trying to do is to work out a dosing / tamp that allows enough space for the coffee to expand, once wet; so that it is NOT overly compressed up and into the shower screen.

    If ya use a 5cent piece and dose / tamp and then lock in and then remove and teh coin is compressed into teh puck.. Ya overdosing.. If ya thing about it.. Its like a second tamp and then when the water hits; it like adding a third tamp...

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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5F70797B6C537F707F797B737B706A1E0 link=1271933172/6#6 date=1271976698
    Quote Originally Posted by 64515C5B6F735F56565555300 link=1271933172/3#3 date=1271938369
    For mine, the 5c test is relatively crude.
    To an experienced person it may be crude... But to those starting out..

    Quote Originally Posted by 7944515C59515E6F7255515E300 link=1271933172/0#0 date=1271933172
    I put the 5 cent on top...and still gets stuck
    What do you mean gets stuck..


    In essence what ya trying to do is to work out a dosing / tamp that allows enough space for the coffee to expand, once wet; so that it is NOT overly compressed up and into the shower screen.

    If ya use a 5cent piece and dose / tamp and then lock in and then remove and teh *coin is compressed into teh puck.. Ya overdosing.. *If ya thing about it.. Its like a second tamp and then when the water hits; it like adding a third tamp...

    When I say gets stuck I mean that the 5c piece along with some amount of coffee is stuck to my shower screen after unlocking the group handle and removing (and this happend after I thought my tamper was sinking way too deep in my basket).

    So should the 5c piece touch the shower screen at all? If it should just lightly touch then this could be skewing my test by getting stuck and lifting off some coffee from my tampled bed in the process....giving me the false reading that Ive dosed to much coffee.

    Cheers,

    IB


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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Quote Originally Posted by 013C2924212926170A2D2926480 link=1271933172/7#7 date=1271985610
    When I say gets stuck I mean that the 5c piece along with some amount of coffee is stuck to my shower screen after unlocking the group handle and removing (and this happend after I thought my tamper was sinking way too deep in my basket).

    So should the 5c piece touch the shower screen at all? If it should just lightly touch then this could be skewing my test by getting stuck and lifting off some coffee from my tampled bed in the process....giving me the false reading that Ive dosed to much coffee.
    This is a DRY test, done with no water at all.
    Sounds like you might be pulling a shot at the same time.

    Dose, distribute, tamp, place 5c piece on top, lock Gh into group as per normal, unlock and check to see if or how far the 5c piece has been impressed into the puck.
    NO WATER USED


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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Quote Originally Posted by 352E2731323F460 link=1271933172/8#8 date=1271987131
    Quote Originally Posted by 013C2924212926170A2D2926480 link=1271933172/7#7 date=1271985610
    When I say gets stuck I mean that the 5c piece along with some amount of coffee is stuck to my shower screen after unlocking the group handle and removing (and this happend after I thought my tamper was sinking way too deep in my basket).

    So should the 5c piece touch the shower screen at all? If it should just lightly touch then this could be skewing my test by getting stuck and lifting off some coffee from my tampled bed in the process....giving me the false reading that Ive dosed to much coffee.
    This is a DRY test, done with no water at all.
    Sounds like you might be pulling a shot at the same time.

    Dose, distribute, tamp, place 5c piece on top, lock Gh into group as per normal, unlock and check to see if or how far the 5c piece has been impressed into the puck.
    NO WATER USED
    Hi there shawty...Im definetly not pulling the shot with the 5c piece in my filter basket ;D

    Im just sharing my findings after playing around with this 5c method for the benefit of other CSrs and also for fine tuning my own technique and procedures.

    Cheers,
    IB

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    A_M
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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Quote Originally Posted by 477A6F62676F60514C6B6F600E0 link=1271933172/9#9 date=1271993369
    So should the 5c piece touch the shower screen at all? If it should just lightly touch then this could be skewing my test by getting stuck and lifting off some coffee from my tampled bed in the process....giving me the false reading that Ive dosed to much coffee.
    Not a false reading at all... If the coin is forced onto the shower screen and or pressed into the coffee puck... Too much Coffee.

    Dose / Tamp / coin / Lock in and then remove should leave a slight depression...

    Now the issue is, if ya have a BOLT like in some machines that hold the shower screen in... Move the coin or try 3 or 4 coins around the edge.. Ya will soon see how level you are with tamping and or the way you lock in..

    You will find that ya not a good as ya think ;)

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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Just one question......why is your coin sticking to your shower screen? last time i checked my shower screen is not magnetic? Is it gummed up with oil? :-?

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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Quote Originally Posted by 42466079797C63747B150 link=1271933172/11#11 date=1271997085
    Just one question......why is your coin sticking to your shower screen? last time i checked my shower screen is not magnetic? Is it gummed up with oil? :-?
    Yeah thats a good question. I didnt think it could happen. But after playing around with this 5c test last night...it happend twice. The coin and thin layer of coffee from my tamped coffee bed gets stuck on the shower screen....only for a few seconds then falls down on to my tray.

    As AM said...Too Much Coffee



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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Quote Originally Posted by 526F7A77727A7544597E7A751B0 link=1271933172/12#12 date=1272000564
    why is your coin sticking to your shower screen?
    The coin and thin layer of coffee from my tamped coffee bed gets stuck on the shower screen....only for a few seconds then falls down on to my tray.
    To do this sort of experiment, the shower-head, the Group and the Group Handle all need to be perfectly dry. Its probably water/moisture that is causing this to happen.

    The best time to try this out, is when the aforementioned components have had a chance to become perfectly dry, i.e. probably overnight after clean-up following the last coffee session for the day and before Switch-On the following day. The Group and associated components should be nice and dry by this time.... ;)

    Mal.

  15. #15
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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Hi Bean,

    Youre not seeing the coffee for the beans.

    I dont think youve said what the coffees like. As Chris has said it is whats in the cup that matters.

    Put the coin back in your pocket and if the shot tastes good dont worry about it - just drink the stuff.


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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Tamp to a depth of 8mm to 10mm
    That will be almost perfect

    I dont use a 5 cent piece
    I lock in the group handle with tamped coffee and observe at what tamp depth the coffee touches or clears the screen

    Correct depth is a hairs whisker clearance from the screen

    Note this tamp depth and use it for future reference

    KK

  17. #17
    levercrema
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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Quote Originally Posted by 557178787B7B4155716D73711E0 link=1271933172/15#15 date=1272423936
    Tamp to a depth of 8mm to 10mm
    That will be almost perfect

    I dont use a 5 cent piece
    I lock in the group handle with tamped coffee and observe at what tamp depth the coffee touches or clears the screen

    Correct depth is a hairs whisker clearance from the screen

    Note this tamp depth and use it for future reference

    KK
    Seems a lot KK. 1 cm is half the depth of my standard synesso basket.


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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    So by not using the 5c piece and just locking in the group handle with tamped coffee...Should you see light brown colouring on the shower screen after you unlock it (suggesting a slight touch)....or how about the tamped coffee..should the tamped bed of coffee be as smooth as if you just finished tamping after unlocking it?

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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Quote Originally Posted by 132E3B36333B3405183F3B345A0 link=1271933172/17#17 date=1272427320
    So by not using the 5c piece and just locking in the group handle with tamped coffee...Should you see light brown colouring on the shower screen after you unlock it (suggesting a slight touch)....or how about the tamped coffee..should the tamped bed of coffee be as smooth as if you just finished tamping after unlocking it?

    2 + 2 = 5 where 5 = Great coffee.

    Every system is different for many reasons...

    While ya can paint by numbers... Ya can not make great coffee by numbers.. It is a matter of testing and then looking to whats in teh cup..

    In essence... KISS


    1: Course grind / heavy tamp and up dosing

    AND

    2: Fine grind / light tamp and under dosing

    Could give a result that only the best will be able to pick the difference in teh cup...

    Thus you can mix the methods to suit your equipment/ ya skill set / beans and machine

    But there is no 1 + 1 = 2 or 2 + 2 = 4 as the raw materials and other issues are too varied. Thats why coffee is such fun.

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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3A332033243524333B37560 link=1271933172/16#16 date=1272426816
    Seems a lot KK. 1 cm is half the depth of my standard synesso basket.
    If thats what it takes (the appropriate depth) to just clear the screen then thats the correct depth
    My machine requires 8mm

    Quote Originally Posted by 1F22373A3F37380914333738560 link=1271933172/17#17 date=1272427320
    So by not using the 5c piece and just locking in the group handle with tamped coffee...Should you see light brown colouring on the shower screen after you unlock it (suggesting a slight touch)....or how about the tamped coffee..should the tamped bed of coffee be as smooth as if you just finished tamping after unlocking it?
    Lock in the group handle as a fully prepared for coffee making unit *

    If the coffee puck touches the screen you will see some coffee stick to it and or an indentation on the coffee puck

    With a little trial and error you will soon find the correct depth for your machine

    Then use that for future reference
    To make it easier you can mark/paint the side of your tamper, for a quick & easy visual reference

    KK

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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    On Junior at home, I overfill the basket, tap the basket twice & twice only against the grinder fork, then strike off level (add a little more in if two taps has gone below the top of the basket until you get used to how much to dose in the first place). I get consistently good results & a consistent tamp depth with my Espro using this method.

    Youll love the machine once you get this nailed. I couldnt live without mine. In fact, given were planning a family at the moment Im not sure how Ill feel about Junior riding in the boot in future instead of securely in the passenger seat when we go away ::) People do look at you funny when you tell them Junior is in the car & they peer in to see 34kg of stainless staring back at them ;D

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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5C4B5F5E50380 link=1271933172/20#20 date=1272524582
    Ill feel about Junior riding in the boot in future instead of securely in the passenger seat when we go away Roll EyesPeople do look at you funny when you tell them Junior is in the car & they peer in to see 34kg of stainless staring back at themGrin
    Congratulations! One of the bonuses of having a real baby secured in the back seat is that you wont get hit in the scone by a 34kg coffee machine in the event of an accident, whether its in a seat belt or not. ;)


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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Quote Originally Posted by 05242F2F2832410 link=1271933172/21#21 date=1272524865
    Congratulations! *One of the bonuses of having a real baby secured in the back seat is that you wont get hit in the scone by a 34kg coffee machine in the event of an accident, whether its in a seat belt or not. ;)
    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaamen.
    Some people dont even realise the danger of having a tissue box in the back seat.

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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Quote Originally Posted by 00212A2A2D37440 link=1271933172/21#21 date=1272524865
    Congratulations! *One of the bonuses of having a real baby secured in the back seat is that you wont get hit in the scone by a 34kg coffee machine in the event of an accident, whether its in a seat belt or not. ;)
    I had a laugh! One of the advantages of the lancer is that its very easy to secure the machine in place. This is of course because the biggest disadvantage of the lancer is that theres no room for anything, so it gets packed very tight very quickly. Certainly no room for a child as well should we manage to produce one.
    I actually had a very near miss on the easter weekend. Only a few blocks from home a woman who I can only assume was actually being directed by her guide dog decided to do a u-turn directly in front of me. I swerved very hard right, missing her front quarter panel by under a foot & veered around her. Junior didnt budge. Funnily, she carried on with her turn & I dont think ever realised I was there :-/

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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2532262729410 link=1271933172/23#23 date=1272528024
    Quote Originally Posted by 00212A2A2D37440 link=1271933172/21#21 date=1272524865
    Congratulations! *One of the bonuses of having a real baby secured in the back seat is that you wont get hit in the scone by a 34kg coffee machine in the event of an accident, whether its in a seat belt or not. ;)
    I had a laugh! *One of the advantages of the lancer is that its very easy to secure the machine in place. *This is of course because the biggest disadvantage of the lancer is that theres no room for anything, so it gets packed very tight very quickly. *Certainly no room for a child as well should we manage to produce one.
    I actually had a very near miss on the easter weekend. *Only a few blocks from home a woman who I can only assume was actually being directed by her guide dog decided to do a u-turn directly in front of me. *I swerved very hard right, missing her front quarter panel by under a foot & veered around her. *Junior didnt budge. *Funnily, she carried on with her turn & I dont think ever realised I was there *:-/
    If I can impart any knowledge on this forum, it is this: never EVER EVER travel with your coffee machine in the occupant compartment. Seat belts are designed for restraining humans and humans alone.

    dsgfh - this is no joke. Please, for your own safety and others in the vehicle, never travel with any object of significant weight in the occupant comparment, whether you believe it is adequately restrained or not.

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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Quote Originally Posted by 20282721297376420 link=1271933172/24#24 date=1272528889
    If I can impart any knowledge on this forum, it is this: never EVER EVER travel with your coffee machine in the occupant compartment. Seat belts are designed for restraining humans and humans alone.

    dsgfh - this is no joke. Please, for your own safety and others in the vehicle, never travel with any object of significant weight in the occupant comparment, whether you believe it is adequately restrained or not.
    Thanks, but I never said it was restrained by the seatbelt and Im quite aware of the physics involved in an accident. Like most things in life, any action you take is a series of trade-offs of risk vs need/want. The lancer necessitates these when packing the car. I could go on, but I dont think its going to help italian bean with dosing & tamping.

    Give the technique suggested a try IB & see how you go.

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    Re: Diadema Junior Extra - Low Shower screen?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2433272628400 link=1271933172/25#25 date=1272532044
    Quote Originally Posted by 20282721297376420 link=1271933172/24#24 date=1272528889
    If I can impart any knowledge on this forum, it is this: never EVER EVER travel with your coffee machine in the occupant compartment. Seat belts are designed for restraining humans and humans alone.

    dsgfh - this is no joke. Please, for your own safety and others in the vehicle, never travel with any object of significant weight in the occupant comparment, whether you believe it is adequately restrained or not.
    Thanks, but I never said it was restrained by the seatbelt and Im quite aware of the physics involved in an accident. * Like most things in life, any action you take is a series of trade-offs of risk vs need/want. * The lancer necessitates these when packing the car. *I could go on, but I dont think its going to help italian bean with dosing & tamping.

    Give the technique suggested a try IB & see how you go.
    Thanks for the tips everyone.

    dsgfh - this is something I do similar at the moment only diff is that I fill 3/4 then tap twice, then add alittle more so I have enought to level off with NSEW and Stockfelth to fill in any loose pockets around the edge of the basket.

    I will try your technique dsgfh and see how that goes.

    Cheers,

    IB



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