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Thread: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

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    Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi All,

    Wondering if I can get some advice. I own a 2 group Milano branded wega. Which I bought two months ago.

    Im having problems getting well textured milk on this machine. No matter how carefully I stretch the milk, I always end up with too much froth and visible bubbles in the milk. Now I work daily on a Mirage and have no problems texturing perfect milk with small 300ml jugs. The volume of the milk also increases more than Im used to. As an example, a 300ml jug filled halfway ends up overflowing before the milk is up to temp. Ive tried plugging the 5 hole steam wand with toothpicks and also changed the entire steam wand for a slightly better one with no change in results.

    Can anyone recommend a fix? Is the steam too wet perhaps? If so, how do I go about changing this on an HX machine without throwing the group head/steam equilibrium out of whack?

    Thanks,
    ACog

    P.S. Ive posted in the machines section rather than milk froth and bubbles as I believe the problem lies with the macchina rather than the mano

  2. #2
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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    Quote Originally Posted by 7D7F737B7B75726F1C0 link=1274527580/0#0 date=1274527580
    Hi All,

    Wondering if I can get some advice. I own a 2 group Milano branded wega. Which I bought two months ago.

    Im having problems getting well textured milk on this machine. No matter how carefully I stretch the milk, I always end up with too much froth and visible bubbles in the milk. Now I work daily on a Mirage and have no problems texturing perfect milk with small 300ml jugs. The volume of the milk also increases more than Im used to. As an example, a 300ml jug filled halfway ends up overflowing before the milk is up to temp. Ive tried plugging the 5 hole steam wand with toothpicks and also changed the entire steam wand for a slightly better one with no change in results.

    Can anyone recommend a fix? Is the steam too wet perhaps? If so, how do I go about changing this on an HX machine without throwing the group head/steam equilibrium out of whack?

    Thanks,
    ACog

    P.S. Ive posted in the machines section rather than milk froth and bubbles as I believe the problem lies with the macchina rather than the mano
    Ya a hard man to please..

    As you are well aware.. A bit hard to offer much with out seeing / hearing /Touching.

    1: Wetness.. Real or perception ?

    Do a test.. Purge. Stop and then run for 30sev in a jug and then measure teh amount of water... Do teh same on teh other unit..

    Then you have real evidence as to WETNES.

    2: Temp ... Er you said it... If the group and HX is fine... You can play a little; but will that change teh steam ???

    3: Water level in teh tank.. Again a trade of a bit with the rest of teh system but worth thinking about

    4: Have you done a descale of the steam line ??? If ya have scale or deposits in any of the fittings / junctions it will cause a change to teh way teh steam performs..

    5: Is the problem with both steamers ?

    6: O-rings and valves all clean and lubed..

    Opps Brainstorming... Slowed to a stop... Need coffee and BF1942 ;D




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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    my bets the milk, is it diff to work?

    interesting one Acog,

    do you work up there with those 3 sexy sisters, or come down the hill like jack and jill? i found it hard to find a good coffee up there last time I visited :)

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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    Have you tried my method on the new machine

    It worked for you on the 6910 ;) so it may be time to revisit

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1220959662

    I have used it with success on many machines

    KK

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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    hey acog.
    ive used an old wega two group before for a bit and i found it difficult to get nice milk too.
    i recall people commenting on the older style wega tips being pretty horrible.
    ive used prosumer tips that no matter what kinda plugging of ports resulted in below part milk.
    hopefully someone will chime in with the "right" tip (hhmm double meaning...)
    try searching thru coffeeparts and see what tips they may have for wegas.
    or chat with pedro (from cp) - hell prob know what tips will fit your steam arm.

    aaron

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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    Quote Originally Posted by 735C5557407F535C5355575F575C46320 link=1274527580/1#1 date=1274528903
    Ya a hard man to please..
    Hey AM, yes, I am. If Im going to be serving coffee from this beast, I want people to say it was awesome, not just nice.

    A few good tips, Ill try them out. How would I go about changing the water level in the tank?

    Maheel, Ive tried a number of different milks, most of which I know to work fine on other machines, including my little 6910.

    KK, I could be doin it wrong, but I have no problems on other machines, including ones with 5 hole steam tips. I used the NS aurellia WBC spec machine a few months ago, and after the first jug which was a disaster, I had excellent results. That machine has more steam power than a russian locomotive.

    The weird thing is even if I only allow a small amount of air in while stretching, the result is always about the same, too much foam, and no gloss, just lots of really small bubbles. And if Im using a small 300ml jug, the milk volume increases so much that it begins spilling out the sides before the milk is up to temp.

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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    Quote Originally Posted by 6F6D61696967607D0E0 link=1274527580/5#5 date=1274568231
    How would I go about changing the water level in the tank?
    Not sure on yours ... Do you have and technical docs... Look for a single SS probe going into the boiler..

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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    Not sure if your Wega is the same but the probe AM was taking about may look like this one attached to the white cable on my Izzo

    What sort of pressure is the boiler at too? If you have wound it back to far you will be getting wet steam.



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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    Thanks BF, Ill check for something similar. Tank pressure is set to around 1 bar while idling. It doesnt drop to less than ~.8 bar when its under load.

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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    Hey Acog

    chuck a empty jug under your steam wand (big one) and blast it with steam for 1 min or so. (be careful its hot!!! I had a laugh) purge it 1st as normal

    how much water / condensation is then in the jug after?

    i just tried on mine thinking about your issue, after about a min (and burning my fingers) I only had about 7ml max, and i sort of used a bit of ally foil over the jug to try to catch all the steam.

    unless you are getting massive amounts of water i just cant see you filling a jug with water making the milk volume increase.

    to adjust your water Power off!!!, i would think yours would be a ss probe and just push it in further, you then need to drain some water via the hot water tap a bit to get it to "refill" to the lower mark. normally its on top of the boiler near the antivac with one wire attached. make sure you stay above the elements hey !!! I would put a spanner on it and remove *to see how deep the probe really is before adjusting.......
    probe out, check with wooden kitchen spoon for water depth and determine element depth etc. I would do my 1st "checks" with wooden spoon on a "cold" boiler.......

    dont take the plug out of a boiler full of steam.......... that might hurt....

    same style probe as per BF pic, one wire on the right

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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    Pressure sounds low, mine is running at around 1.1. Maybe give the PStat a crank, try some shots to make sure the temp is still OK and see if the steam quality improves.

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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    Boiler pressure could be adjusted up to 1.1 - 1.2 bar
    On my BZ40 machine I prefer to have the elements cycle on, no lower than 1.1 bar

    And if that is no better I would look at the boiler water level as noted above

    KK

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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    Quote Originally Posted by 5E595D525A504555525B3C0 link=1274527580/10#10 date=1274572173
    Pressure sounds low, mine is running at around 1.1. Maybe give the PStat a crank, try some shots to make sure the temp is still OK and see if the steam quality improves.
    AND

    Quote Originally Posted by 77535A5A59596377534F51533C0 link=1274527580/11#11 date=1274575471
    Boiler pressure could be adjusted up to 1.1 - 1.2 bar
    On my BZ40 machine I prefer to have the elements cycle on, no lower than 1.1 bar

    And if that is no better I would look at the boiler water level as noted above

    KK
    Me 3

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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    Quote Originally Posted by 6166626D656F7A6A6D64030 link=1274527580/10#10 date=1274572173
    Maybe give the PStat a crank, try some shots to make sure the temp is still OK
    Honestly, the espresso from this machine is pretty ordinary too. Looks nice when it pours from the spout, nice viscosity and colour, but lacks sweetness of balance. Often has a bitter finish.

    One things for sure, this is going to force me to learn about the inner workings of an HX machine.

    Maheel,

    Thanks very much for the practical tips. Especially about removing the probe on a cold boiler. Kind of reminds me of the time my cousin checked the water level on her overheated radiator....

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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    Quote Originally Posted by 65676B63636D6A77040 link=1274527580/13#13 date=1274610782
    Honestly, the espresso from this machine is pretty ordinary too. Looks nice when it pours from the spout, nice viscosity and colour, but lacks sweetness of balance. Often has a bitter finish.
    Not sure how long it was standing idle so a good system clean may be in order

    Quote Originally Posted by 65676B63636D6A77040 link=1274527580/13#13 date=1274610782
    One things for sure, this is going to force me to learn about the inner workings of an HX machine. *
    I am sure you know most of this Acog but I will post it for the benefit of others

    The HX system is a separate heat absorbing unit
    It draws in & uses fresh water (not boiler water)
    Water pipes or pipe spirals are heated by transfer from the hot boiler water

    When the machine is sitting idle for a while the water in the HX pipes will be at boiling point

    This water should be flushed to stabilise the temp
    A visual sign of the flush is - until the water runs free without spitting or hissing
    Some machines need more & some less of a flush

    Then load your already prepared group handle and pull your shot

    As for steaming or prior to steaming
    I get a tall plastic cup (or milk bottle) and purge steam for about 10 seconds which is about the time it takes me to steam milk

    Then proceed with steaming the milk

    KK


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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    Quote Originally Posted by 21232F2727292E33400 link=1274527580/13#13 date=1274610782
    Honestly, the espresso from this machine is pretty ordinary too. Looks nice when it pours from the spout, nice viscosity and colour, but lacks sweetness of balance. Often has a bitter finish.

    One things for sure, this is going to force me to learn about the inner workings of an HX machine.
    UPDATE PLEASE ;)

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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    Shortly after posting this, my machine had pump or pump motor problems so its been away at the espresso mechanics for the past two weeks. Ive not had a chance to take the knowledge in this thread and apply it yet.

    Frustratingly, the techs gave the boiler an acid flush and new seals even though I told them the seals were a week old and the pump was the problem, not a contaminated boiler. I wont go mentioning company names, needless to say Im a little displeased.

    Ill update when theres news.

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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    Quote Originally Posted by 45474B43434D4A57240 link=1274527580/16#16 date=1275563732
    Shortly after posting this, my machine had pump or pump motor problems so its been away at the espresso mechanics for the past two weeks. Ive not had a chance to take the knowledge in this thread and apply it yet.

    Frustratingly, the techs gave the boiler an acid flush and new seals even though I told them the seals were a week old and the pump was the problem, not a contaminated boiler. I wont go mentioning company names, needless to say Im a little displeased.

    Ill update when theres news.
    So sorry to hear... Considering it started out as wet steam ?

    Sorry... Seen some service in my time that should have never been..

    What is worse is when things dont work and or get damaged and you end up paying for it. In one manner or another...

    Remember if your paying for it; you get to keep the dead parts... Just mike sure they are from your machine.... They often tell an interesting story..

    Will be at the Hilton Tuesday night and fly out Wednesday afternoon - if ya around... Work could keep me a bit late and around the hotel.. But feel free to drop me a line or Call in.

    PS. The coffee there is shit !!!

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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    Not good news :( hope you get some better results out of it for the money in and hope for a good coffee drinking market crowd for you :)

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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    Unfortunately after two wet weeks in a row, my events for last Saturday and today were canceled, meaning I had 12 litres of milk going off tomorrow. So, what do you do with 12 litres of milk you cant use?

    Practice.

    So, today I steamed my way through (almost) 12 litres of milk.

    I have to say, after getting my machine back, and working on my technique Im quite happy with the results. Was the problem with me all along? I still dont think so. I could get good results on other commercial machines without much effort. Perhaps the milk I was using the other week was crap. The milk was full of tiny bubbles surface bubbles the way Ive seen on sub-par milk before. Perhaps my machine has been fine tuned while away. Not sure.

    For those wondering, my machines pstat stops at 1.2 bar and kicks in again when it drops below 1 bar.

    Something Im unsure of is where the adjusting the pstat widens the deadband or simply moves it up or down the pressure range?

    A few piccies from my fun day.





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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    Quote Originally Posted by 4B49454D4D4344592A0 link=1274527580/19#19 date=1275720526
    Something Im unsure of is where the adjusting the pstat widens the deadband or simply moves it up or down the pressure range?
    Yes and NO.

    In general the deadband is fixed and a characteristic of the pstat..

    Some fancy units will offer you some level of control, but there will always be a deadband of some sort.

    So what did they find / say ?

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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    Quote Originally Posted by 6E41484A5D624E414E484A424A415B2F0 link=1274527580/20#20 date=1275722108
    So what did they find / say ?
    As I said above, very little information from them.

    One thing Ive done in the past day is downgrade it to 10 amps (in consultation with both an electrician and espresso machine tech) but I doubt that would have an effect on steam performance in a good way.

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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    that bucket looks something like the beer i have been brewing when the krausen (yeast head / froth) really gets going.......

    glad to hear you back to getting better texture.

    there has been a few discussions on milk changing "quality", i reckon different brands are different to work with.

    I really like the Harris Farm FC milk at the moment

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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    Quote Originally Posted by 69464F4D5A654946494F4D454D465C280 link=1274527580/20#20 date=1275722108
    In general the deadband is fixed and a characteristic of the pstat..
    Its a Sirai pressure stat btw, if that helps give an answer. So if I crank the pstat a few revolutions, its only going to move that .2 bar deadband up or down so that the top end might be 1.8 bar for example with a low end of 1.6 bar?

    Not suggesting these are ideal settings, simply trying to illustrate.

    Oh, do you like my giant bucketccino above?

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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    Quote Originally Posted by 00020E0606080F12610 link=1274527580/23#23 date=1275725312
    Quote Originally Posted by 69464F4D5A654946494F4D454D465C280 link=1274527580/20#20 date=1275722108
    In general the deadband is fixed and a characteristic of the pstat..
    Its a Sirai pressure stat btw, if that helps give an answer. So if I crank the pstat a few revolutions, its only going to move that .2 bar deadband up or down so that the top end might be 1.8 bar for example with a low end of 1.6 bar?

    Not suggesting these are ideal settings, simply trying to illustrate.

    Oh, do you like my giant bucketccino above?
    as your adjusting the screw against a spring in the Sari i would think its going to have some effect on the dead band but I have no real idea how much (not much I reckon as the movement seems small on the screw / spring). as AM said (yes and no) as your also changing other dynamics of the machine.

    you would have a bigger effect on dead band (time wise) by insulating the boiler

    but i assume your really talking how much "bar" in the deadband not the time frame of it.

  26. #26
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    Re: Steam problems on 2 group Wega

    Marketing..

    Designed to adjust from .5 bar to 1.5 bar. *These switches are a VERY common replacement item on most brands of espresso machine.

    This is the most probable fix if your espresso machine has any of the following symptoms:

    Looses pressure randomly throughout the day
    Does not stop heating or machine over pressures by spraying out the top
    Has a large swing from low operating pressure to high

    What is low to high.. *

    Looking fo the full tec specs as that should provide all the linearity and response curves and then your informed...

    www.sirai.com/inglese/pdf/altri/P302.pdf

    A quick look says 0.15 fixed.. *But remember any crap on probes and or age will add to that.. Also depends on your exact model and a little got ya...

    80C max ambient .. So if its all hot back there; the specs can only be referenced as a guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4D4F434B4B45425F2C0 link=1274527580/23#23 date=1275725312
    Oh, do you like my giant bucketccino above?
    That is the cup that should have been given to "Goliath" in that Campbell soup add.

    Now if ya used RED coco I would have thought you were striping a cow post calving..



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