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Thread: Piazza DOro Piston/Leone CMA manufactured 1 group machine

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    Piazza DOro Piston/Leone CMA manufactured 1 group machine

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hello,
    First post here although Ive been reading for a while. I just acquired a used Piazza DOro "Piston", also known as the Leone. Heres the brochure from the web site:
    http://www.piazzadoro.com/NR/rdonlyr...Espressimo.pdf

    Its manufactured I believe by CMA in Italy so very similar to a Wega or Astoria but still unique enough to need its own manual.

    And thats what Im after: the manual. Or any solid technical information on how it works. Its in decent condition and its not super complicated, very much your standard 1-group HX machine with semi-auto buttons, hot water and a steam wand. It turns on but all the lights flash. Im planning to do a rebuild but I dont want to get too far into it without at least trying the basics.

    Anyone got any ideas how I might come across a user manual or technical service manual? Generally, any kind of information would be great.

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    Re: Piazza DOro Piston/Leone CMA manufactured 1 group machine

    Quote Originally Posted by 5154564251575743300 link=1275526828/0#0 date=1275526828
    Anyone got any ideas how I might come across a user manual or technical service manual? Generally, any kind of information would be great.
    You would be surprised by what one can often get by contacting the manufacturer direct.. Tis only an e-mail away.

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    Re: Piazza DOro Piston/Leone CMA manufactured 1 group machine

    Welcome adfraggs

    nice looking machine

    when you say the "lights flash" what else is happening?

    do you have it connected to water?
    is the boiler full to the correct level?
    is it heating up?
    even when the buttons "flash" if you press them what happens?
    are there any small toggle switches above the main power switch (or else where) they may be programming switches that are in the wrong position etc.

    for them to flash i am thinking the "programming" might need doing hopefully it is not reporting an "error"....

  4. #4
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    Re: Piazza DOro Piston/Leone CMA manufactured 1 group machine

    Welcome to CS.

    You said "...Its in decent condition.... .....Planning to do a rebuild....lights flash.......".

    In the touch pad?. Lights flash all the time and wont stop, OR, they flash mometarily a few secs after you switch on, then stop flashing. *

    a) you dont need a rebuild you need to know about the flashing light thing so the machine can be repaired (if necessary) and used. Dont rebuild it if it aint broke. Most usualy a simple service is all that is required, maybe a clean up depending on PO, and any simple repairs that need doing if any.

    b) Contact guess who *;)......your local Pizza Doro agent for information.....their service section, and they will put their finger on it instantly, instead of you chasing your tail around in circles while contributors here guess at what is going on with a machine they do not know.....including me, and I run an equipment import, sell and service business (in my coffee roasterie) but we see very few of these.

    c) to get you started and speaking as a machine techie of some experience.....most usually flashing lights (in a touch pad) that wont stop flashing, indicate a standard "alarm" function programmed into the electronics.

    Most usually & irrespective of the brand / model, this alarm means there is a water failure. The machine is trying to do something with water, but cant "find" any, and that function has been timed out without completing its task.....

    Ergo your first port of call (before telephoning Pizza Doro), is to make sure that when you switch it in, it has already been connected to the mains, and the stop cock is actually turned on and is delivering water...then you switch on the main electrical switch, and wait and see what happens. If it has 0 / 1 / 2 positions on the main switch, only switch it to the 1 posi. This allows the machine to carry on all functions BUT NOT supply power to the element. So if your boiler is for some reason out of water, you wont zap it out.

    Attenzione / warning */ achtung / above when I mentioned connection to mains water it was assumed you know about the water pressure limiting valve atleast, if not the filter. If not.......

    Then call PDO because at that point you will be able to tell them that even though the machine is connect to water and it is on, the lights (on the touch pad?) wont stop flashing.

    Did I say....call Pizza Doro agent service techs? Even if the thing has stopped its lights flashing as a result of my excelent advice, you will still want to ask them about the owner booklet...which in all probability wont tell you much but.....

    Good luck.

    PS, not wega style, but San Marino/Astoria style machine as built */ specced for Douwe Egbert / P.DO and all their other company names.

    RegardZ,
    Attilio
    very first CS site sponsor.

    PS / 2:
    Dont touch anything electrical, dont wire your own plug, dont pull the sides off the body, etc etc etc. Electrickery kills. It should only be a 10 amp machine, and should still have the plug on......(because there is never any reason for people to cut them off).....even though they do.....why do they do these things.....arrrrrhhhhhhhhh?





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    Re: Piazza DOro Piston/Leone CMA manufactured 1 group machine

    Example:

    Even this "heap of" doesnt need a rebuild. It only needs a thorough clean and service.

    Yes, the clean = steam clean outside but.....it doesnt need a "rebuild"....there is nothing mechanical or electrical wrong with it.

    Its from our "shame file". These clients still do exist, you take your family out, have a meal, and drink their coffee!

    Excellent...what more could you ask for! ;D

    I have an even better one in the workshop right now. But it will clean up just fine to look like a good condition used machine and after a simple service, will work as it should....the point being, no rebuild required unless you just want to pull it apart and run the risk of never putting it back together which is what hapens to many many "projects".

    Enjoy your machine.

    A.


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    Re: Piazza DOro Piston/Leone CMA manufactured 1 group machine

    Thanks guys, I think Im going to like being a contributing member here.

    Just to clarify, its the lights on the touch-pad, all of them are continuously flashing and yes, I assume its some kind of failure somewhere. Ive plumbed some unfiltered very low pressure water to the machine from a 20 litre container and it does run and heat up OK, pump seems OK in the brief time I ran it, not totally sure about water level in the boiler. These warning lights were flashing when the machine was last in use so I dont believe its a water issue but Im not going to do much more until I can get a decent water supply.

    Emailed Piazza Doro for some documentation, well see what comes back. My next stop will be their service department but Im stubborn, I like to tackle these things myself. I need to get a proper water supply into it obviously.

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    Re: Piazza DOro Piston/Leone CMA manufactured 1 group machine

    Trust me you are having a water failure.

    Throwing the inlet line into a container does not constitute any form of pressurised mains connection but fortunately the machine is late model enough that it should be able to auto fill the boiler from the container through activated motor driven pump suction.

    Suggest there is a problem in the auto fill circuit, simpply because when you first switch on a machine, that is the first function activated.

    If the function "times out" ie, doesnt get the signal to stop within say most probably a minutes running (because by then it should be full and have sent / received the signal to stop trying to fill), this indicates a possible problem somewhere in the auto fill circuit, and will require tracing, and fixing.

    Not prepared to go any further with this, as you can imagine this is someones trade and livelihood (including my own) and I dont see too many other professionals lining up in here to give all their expertise away for nothing, not to mention the time and effort that will be involved to talk you through working your problem out decisively and effecting a repair....all for free.

    Also this will involve electrical stuff. Not prepared to go there with a non electrical trades / or appliance repair qualified *person.

    Your only course of action is to call P.DO and arrange service as the PO would have done while the machine was running in a business situation.

    By the way, few busy full time trades people / work shops incl P.DO will respond to emails seeking (basically free) tech help. They are working for their living. You need to telephone them, they will talk you through some basic stuff to work out the direction of problem (as I already have done here), and give you a course of action (book it in).

    It may be a bitter pill to swallow, but its reality.

    Hope this helps,
    A.

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    Re: Piazza DOro Piston/Leone CMA manufactured 1 group machine

    Have to agree with A. yet again...

    In addition there are other issues that will cause teh water fill to error...

    1: Faulty controller
    2: Dirty probe
    3: No mains / suitable water
    4: Air in teh system
    5: Pump problem / setup
    6: etc
    7: And the list goes on....

    As A. said..

    There is a Clean & Polish Or a Slap & Tickle VS a REBUILD.

    Rebuilds should only be undertaken if ya have teh skill sets..

    The KLIIB T2 was a Slap & Tickle and even that tested some of my skills...



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    Re: Piazza DOro Piston/Leone CMA manufactured 1 group machine

    Actually the reason Im doing any of this is because Im looking to learn and make restoring machines a bit more of a regular hobby. Kind of defeats the purpose to take it to a service shop. Im really just looking for a user manual at this stage, anything else is a bonus, but thanks for the pointers so far, theyre appreciated.

    I will say, as an I.T. professional Im happy to spend some of my spare time helping out people who need it. Im particularly happy to share my knowledge and love to see someone being interested rather than just handing it over and waiting to see the result. No doubt we all have different philosophies on this kind of stuff, perhaps its my larger pay packet that has me generally feeling more generous.

    Ive also been poking around inside dangerous machines for a while so Ive learned to be careful *;)

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    Re: Piazza DOro Piston/Leone CMA manufactured 1 group machine

    Quote Originally Posted by 6E6B697D6E68687C0F0 link=1275526828/8#8 date=1275570893
    Actually the reason Im doing any of this is because Im looking to learn and make restoring machines a bit more of a regular hobby. Kind of defeats the purpose to take it to a service shop. Im really just looking for a user manual at this stage, anything else is a bonus, but thanks for the pointers so far, theyre appreciated.

    I will say, as an I.T. professional Im happy to spend some of my spare time helping out people who need it. Im particularly happy to share my knowledge and love to see someone being interested rather than just handing it over and waiting to see the result. No doubt we all have different philosophies on this kind of stuff, perhaps its my larger pay packet that has me generally feeling more generous.

    Ive also been poking around inside dangerous machines for a while so Ive learned to be careful *;)
    Makes sense..

    Just remember playing with 240V is not only dangerous; it is agents the law in all states unless you have a licence or some level of skill set that is recognised / signed off.

    Play all ya want on a dead / disconnected system... But it must be tested before powering on and should be tagged prior to actual use..

    Depending on where you are it can be a big issue... *

    Quote Originally Posted by 023621372C1B072B22222121440 link=1275526828/6#6 date=1275557564
    Also this will involve electrical stuff. Not prepared to go there with a non electrical trades / or appliance repair qualified *person.
    Note: House insurance and even life insurance will not cover you; if you doing something your not qualified to do..

    Accidents are one thing, actually playing with stuff and getting hurt... Another matter. *A little like DUI... Ya insurance is invalid.

    As per A. and his comment... If I advise and even with a disclamer... You get hurt... I can be taken to court as a contributing factor etc.

    Thus my advice.. If ya not qualified.. Get a mate in who is to double check and sign off on ya work.. He wont be happy..

    OR

    Go and do ya training and get ya test gear and once signed off... Ya own problem.

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    Re: Piazza DOro Piston/Leone CMA manufactured 1 group machine

    Thank you for the well thought out reply.

    You will note, I have altready done the thinking part for you by doing the general diagnosis, even if it hasnt specifically pin pointed where the final fix lies and or with which component etc.

    Where is the intellectual expertise... in the diagnosis which is why as you would know from your field of expertise, most repairers now charge a "book in fee" because there are enough people out there, who will let you spend your valuable time to work out whats wrong and needs fixing, then say they dont want you to go ahead with the repair. The book in fee being refunded in the cost of the eventual repair, or not refunded if the client decides to pick it up without repair.

    There is a fine balance between how much "complimentary" time can be spent on any particular problem, and from where it will have to go on the clock. Dont forget, one mans hobby and an endless supply of free time, is another mans livelihood wher time is money.

    Regardz,
    Attilio
    very first CS site sponsor.



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    Re: Piazza DOro Piston/Leone CMA manufactured 1 group machine

    All good points. I didnt occur to me that if I was to sell this thing Id need to have it properly checked. Ill be sure to do that.

    There will most likely be a call to the service shop at some point. Hopefully I can find someone here in Brisbane who is happy to pass on their wisdom without significant cost but I really never expected them to do it for nothing. Thats what this place is for right?

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    Re: Piazza DOro Piston/Leone CMA manufactured 1 group machine

    Quote Originally Posted by 292C2E3A292F2F3B480 link=1275526828/11#11 date=1275603176
    All good points. I didnt occur to me that if I was to sell this thing Id need to have it properly checked. Ill be sure to do that.

    There will most likely be a call to the service shop at some point. Hopefully I can find someone here in Brisbane who is happy to pass on their wisdom without significant cost but I really never expected them to do it for nothing. Thats what this place is for right?
    1: Update ya profile..

    2: In Qld - you even take the cover off you are 1/2 way to breaking a number of State laws...

    3: You plug it in for any reason after any work and your done and dusted.. You have broken State and also put ya self at risk of action by the Grid supplier (Ergon for eg) as well.

    The hard part for Qld is that there are only a couple of places that do refurbishment sort of work if at all and in many cases; even getting parts is impossible except for online..

    PS. Last service a Coffee repair place did for a small café was en excess of $600 to inspect and change group seals and shower screens.

    No cleaning/ no temp or pressure checks ... Nothing else and makes it hard for the owner to validate..

    PS. * adfraggs

    Do a search on the rebuild projects etc a few of us up here in Brisbane have done and all the data is available.. *KLuB T2 / Faema / *San Marino CK - Black ABS top - Rebuild project etc. Look in this topic. http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?board=BrewExtreme

    If it is for home and or a project - great way to learn etc If you do it safely...

    You thinking of buying crap / rebuild / Selling... Thats another issue.

    As a contractor in Qld.. I see you do it or even hear that you have been playing with 240V etc.. Under the law I an obligated *to report you to the Authorities..


    Every other Coffee machine service centre in Qld has to obtain a Contractors licence (not cheep and renewed every year) and or contract that work / responsibility out to a Contractor. *They also have to have staff with Electrical Quals / Formal competences to Tag and test etc)

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    Re: Piazza DOro Piston/Leone CMA manufactured 1 group machine

    OK, consider me enlightened. Looking at QLD state law now and this stuff seems insane. I used to re-wire electric sockets when I was 12 years old but apparently its against the law. So yes, I totally understand where you guys are coming from and yes, from a legal point of view what Im suggesting is dodgy. I can see how a qualified sparky/technician, having invested time and money into becoming a certified contractor, would look upon my fiddling with a certain amount of disdain.

    As far as selling on this machine, that is simply a vague consideration so thanks for setting me straight. I mean that. My goal is to get this machine running again, make a few good coffees with it and then feel good about myself before wondering what I might actually do with it.

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    Re: Piazza DOro Piston/Leone CMA manufactured 1 group machine

    Quote Originally Posted by 6366647063656571020 link=1275526828/13#13 date=1275613788
    OK, consider me enlightened. Looking at QLD state law now and this stuff seems insane. I used to re-wire electric sockets when I was 12 years old but apparently its against the law. So yes, I totally understand where you guys are coming from and yes, from a legal point of view what Im suggesting is dodgy. I can see how a qualified sparky/technician, having invested time and money into becoming a certified contractor, would look upon my fiddling with a certain amount of disdain.

    As far as selling on this machine, that is simply a vague consideration so thanks for setting me straight. I mean that. My goal is to get this machine running again, make a few good coffees with it and then feel good about myself before wondering what I might actually do with it.
    Good... We are on same playing field; but may be at different ends at tomes... I mean Blue Vs RED. ;)

    If about research / learning etc etc.. I am on the north side and may be in a position to ensure that your safe and the rebuild is not putting you or property at risk.....

    Prior to a fully working machine going into ya kitchen and family and friends using it.. Another step may be involved.

    Ya profile is still not updated.

    PM me.


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    Re: Piazza DOro Piston/Leone CMA manufactured 1 group machine

    PS. Last service a Coffee repair place did for a small café was en excess of $600 to inspect and change group seals and shower screens.

    ;D
    excess of $600..........for screens and seals.....I dont think so and if they did pay then they are stupid!

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    Re: Piazza DOro Piston/Leone CMA manufactured 1 group machine

    Quote Originally Posted by 242C2C2822430 link=1275526828/15#15 date=1277385279
    PS. Last service a Coffee repair place did for a small café was en excess of $600 to inspect and change group seals and shower screens.

    ;D
    excess of $600..........for screens and seals.....I dont think so and if they did pay then they are stupid!
    Yes they did charge $600 and like many; the final cost is only after the job has been done and teh invoice is sent and or handed over.....

    Your obviously not dealing with any contractors or trade people if you think that $600 is a joke..

    1: Service on site... (Travel time)

    2: Parts (Cost and mark up)

    3: Labour and so called final testing..


    So If you can do on site (van ) and parts (Warehouse to cover all models and types) and labour (skilled) for significantly less and pay the service person a wage (something that keep him turning up)... Lots of people would be happy to talk to you...

    If not then.... ;)

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    Re: Piazza DOro Piston/Leone CMA manufactured 1 group machine

    Quote Originally Posted by 4F60696B7C436F606F696B636B607A0E0 link=1275526828/16#16 date=1277425562
    Your obviously not dealing with any contractors or trade people if you think that $600 is a joke..
    Mornin AM, most tradesmen, particularly sparkys and plumbers will charge whatever they can get away with >:(
    We have half a dozen or so in our town, most drive bloody great sign written Mercedes vans and the meter starts ticking the moment they pick up the phone to speak to you, minimum call out fee $100 >:( on the other hand I use an excellent electrician, no call out fee, in fact will drop in on the way past and offer advice and even do small jobs @ no charge, very reasonable rates and needless to say hes flat out.
    Same deal with plumber. :)


  19. #19
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    Re: Piazza DOro Piston/Leone CMA manufactured 1 group machine

    Yep...

    Quote Originally Posted by 506C657D68090 link=1275526828/17#17 date=1277426709
    Mornin AM, most tradesmen, particularly sparkys and plumbers will charge whatever they can get away with *
    We have half a dozen or so in our town, most drive bloody great sign written Mercedes vans and the meter starts ticking the moment they pick up the phone to speak to you, minimum call out fee $100 *
    Issue for some up here is that; like a limited supply of good Coffee training (See other rants) *;), there are only a few providers of Coffee Service Maintenance available..

    They have a interesting monopoly and as there are few if any other options...

    **** Well; guess what happens when looking for on site service or a timely service due to parts availability..

    Unless you have a Fully paid up contract... *A repair can take days to weeks..

    PS. *Another reason why Machines and Roasted beans are lumped together.. *The shop owner does not have to think about it...

    Even the big sponsors and others suppliers up here, contract the service of equipment out... Be it Commercial and or the Smaller units they sell......

    Not aware on any that have a substantial service crew and loan equipment.. And if they do; it does not come cheep.

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    Re: Piazza DOro Piston/Leone CMA manufactured 1 group machine

    Quote Originally Posted by 292121252F4E0 link=1275526828/15#15 date=1277385279
    PS. Last service a Coffee repair place did for a small café was en excess of $600 to inspect and change group seals and shower screens.

    ;D
    excess of $600..........for screens and seals.....I dont think so and if they did pay then they are stupid!
    Perhaps there was another reply to the thread somewhere above and then it was deleted....because not sure what this is replying to or what it means.

    Does it mean someone spent half an hour on site, replacing only a couple of showers and group seals and charged $600.00....Or does it mean someone spent considerable time on site completing various tasks requiring mostly the input of "time spent" & expertise rather than actual replacement of spare parts, and charged $600.00?

    None of the circumstances have been described, in any case it is well known that people can write whatever they like in internet forums and apparently its always the truth!

    And of course lets not discount, that for every paid job a professional tradesman ever did for a client, there is a very high number of complimentary jobs and pieces of advice that were freely given.

    Cryptic anonymous posts are not helpful particularly when it seems they have been posted to try to discredit espresso machine rerpairers in general, and present a case that all and sundry unqualified people should be sticking screwdrivers into black holes in coffee machines looking to make contact with 240 volts and or take work from legitimate espresso machine tradesmen who like everyone else, have every right to ply their trade without interference from the sidelines.

    Regardz to all,
    Attilio
    very first CS site sponsor





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    Re: Piazza DOro Piston/Leone CMA manufactured 1 group machine

    Quote Originally Posted by 754156405B6C705C55555656330 link=1275526828/19#19 date=1277433131
    Perhaps there was another reply to the thread somewhere above and then it was deleted....because not sure what this is replying to or what it means.
    Maybe a one post Troll :-? Joined yesterday one fairly off topic posting???

    Not to mention travel time to and from location X to this machine or any other multitude of work that may or not have been done? Down in my part of the world until recently most Coffee machine service work was done with a 2 1/2 hour drive before they got here so someone has to pay for at least some of that even if it gets shared around several machines service calls.


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    Re: Piazza DOro Piston/Leone CMA manufactured 1 group machine

    PS. Last service a Coffee repair place did for a small café was en excess of $600 to inspect and change group seals and shower screens.

    No cleaning/ no temp or pressure checks ... Nothing else and makes it hard for the owner to validate..


    These are your words AM in reply #12. (attillio & OlSmokey?)

    Also reply #16 (guesstimates? being generous)

    1: Service on site... (Travel time) OK$200

    2: Parts (Cost and mark up) $20 screens and seals

    3: Labour and so called final testing.. $100 hr for 20min work?

    still way below $600?

    My point, no one should be charged $600 to only have the screens and seals changed on their machine.
    If you think charging that much is ok...then we agree to disagree.

    Attilio, I am definitely not being cryptic and am not discrediting coffee technicians..They are very important people!

    ps Im not a troll im just new here.






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