Thread: New Giotto Rocket pressure problem

Hello BrisPete,

As your machine is brand new, I would suggest you might be best to discuss your concerns with the bloke you bought it from. If you tinker inside, you will most likely blow your warranty.

CS sponsors generally know their stuff and should be able to solve simple issues like this really easily. I am surprised it wasnt identified in the bench test of your machine. Presumably, there was one? *:-?

2mcm

Hello BrisPete,

Congrats on your new purchase! I have never used a Giotto before, but your scenario made me think of a video I watched recently.

Check out the following video clip of a Giotto being Descaled. *As you can see, at about 3 and half minutes into the clip, the machine has a hard time keeping up pressure. *During this video, water is being drained from the machine both from the brew head and the hot water wand. *The pump kicks in once the pressure drops. **Then the pump turns itself off after a few seconds*, which would imply that you are ready to brew full strength again; however, even though the pump turned itself off, the machine still does not seem to be able to keep up pressure and water output for as long as it did when the first lot of water was pulled through. *Im wonder if this is what you are experiencing? *Perhaps it is typical for the single boiler HX design?

Good luck with it! *

Forgot to include the link!

http://www.youtube.com/SeattleCoffeeGear#p/search/3/SLQup1NKYb8

I have two comments:

1)

Originally Posted by 217E66707B707C757576767E727D130 link=1278287144/1#1 date=1278295698

As your machine is brand new, I would suggest you might be best to discuss your concerns with the bloke you bought it from. If you tinker inside, you will most likely blow your warranty.

2) Coffee machine owners would be wise NOT to take their machines to Seattle Coffee Gear for descaling.

Originally Posted by 6C4D4646415B280 link=1278287144/4#4 date=1278367687

2) Coffee machine owners would be wise NOT to take their machines to Seattle Coffee Gear for descaling.

:o :o hooley dooley...Now thats what I call NFI....

Originally Posted by 69362E383338343D3D3E3E363A355B0 link=1278287144/5#5 date=1278368152

Originally Posted by 6C4D4646415B280 link=1278287144/4#4 date=1278367687

2) Coffee machine owners would be wise NOT to take their machines to Seattle Coffee Gear for descaling.

:o :o hooley dooley...Now thats what I call NFI....

i have always thought those youtube vids by SCG where spoofs and some kind of American humour? kind of like the 45" angle tamping vid but a lot less funny.....

does that lady really own a coffee machine shop? :o

Yup, sticking to the point......

Best advice is, straight back to your retailer for some after sales service Pete.


Regardz,
Attilio

Your first point: after steaming 600ml x2 * (1.2 litres!) of milk virtually one after another the *boiler will be seriously challenged. *It does need a recovery period - so watch steam pressure get back to its 1.2 (?) bars. *My pump kicks in shortly after my first 600ml ( 2 cups). Always has - but pressures up (1.3bars in my csse) quickly.
If it does not recover in a reasonable time - then it is a repeatable problem that can be serviced

The second point is worrying - having to turn off the machine to reset it. This is the point I would focus on when returning it for warranty. It seems to have been a one off situation - or is it normal. How many times has this accured? It this a repeatable problem.

Dont even think about fiddling with it while is under warranty

D

Hi All,

Thanks for the info. I will return for check under warranty. Just wanted to get an idea of what might have caused the pressure problem before taking it back.

Complete loss of pressure has only happened the once at this stage.

Will be more patient with the recovery time and see how the steaming goes.

Even if I let her get back up to 1-1.2 before steaming it usually drops down to 0.5-0.7ish almost straight away. Have read that anything above 0.5 is fine for steaming

Kind Regards,

Peter

Originally Posted by 2B3A2226362E4F0 link=1278287144/10#10 date=1278490140

So if I put the above two together - It might be possible that the quality of steam needs a short while to re-establish itself. * *

On a machine of that calibre...

Maybe I have just been spoilt..

Trying to be constructive:
( Deleted the original of this post and replaced it with this)

(Note: My guage tops at 1.3bars)

I watch my Giotto today: Steamed the first 600ml okay the pressure slowly drops to about .7 *bars but recovers almost immediately ( I can watch the needle go up). *Then the *pump did a short boiler top up but the pressure did not drop noticeably after the top up.

I did not try a second steaming - But I would have expected it to steam okay.

I have noticed over time that my Giotto seems to work much better. *It (or the barista) may need settling in period

D

BrisPete
I have checked out my figures:
I steam 300ml of milk for two cups of coffee at a time (in a 750ml SS jug). The prep time for the second shot (2 cups) gives me a good recovery rate for the second lot of milk.
Found this extract from thread: *<Compact HX Machines> by <skelly> on 7/7 might be relevant to read. *
(Giotto Info: 1.8lt boiler and *1200watts.)
D

skelly:
"Most HXs have a boiler around 1.5L and about 1400W of power. (Power is important to recharge the boiler, so the two go hand in hand.)

"In terms of "Running out of puff" *-Yeah, a typical HX machine will run out of puff if you try to steam a large jug of milk (I presume a 1lt) for several coffees at once (like they do in ( :(SOME :(!!) *cafes).

"But the process at home is different - heres what I do*:
For each coffee (flat white), it takes about 1 minute to make.
20 seconds to grind the beans (while grinding, use free hand to pour milk for one coffee into the jug).
Tamp & pull a shot. This takes 30 seconds.
While thats going, you have time to steam the milk (which takes 20 seconds)

"Before you can regrind & tamp, the boiler will easily have replenished all the steam and youre ready for coffee #2... (or 3, or 4, or 5.......)"

Interesting discussion here, Ive noticed a similar thing with my Evoluzione. If Im making a few drinks at once Ill normally do all the espresso first, then the milk, and lastly the long blacks. While ideally the espresso would be done immediately before the milk, I dont want to flood too much cold water into the machine when Ive still got shots to pull. This is where I noticed the Evo ([s]1.5l[/s]1.8L hx, 1200W element) lagged behind what the Minore could do (1.7L boiler, 2000W element).

Greg

Hi Greg,

Just to correct you there, your machine has a 1.8L boiler.

My advice would be that its best to use the machine as its designed and pull shots for your milky coffees 1 or 2 at a time (as required) and then texture the milk as required for them. Were talking a 300ml or 600ml jug. Chances are you will find that the machine is ready when youre back with the next group handle.

Once youre done with milk, then look after your black drinkers. Keep in mind that its not the VA2 and that there is a cooling effect on the boiler when the machine drinks and when pulling shots as its HX rather than dual boiler.

Its just about the appropriate technique for your machine. After all, Andy said did a couple of thousand back to back on his. ;)

Cheers

Chris

Thanks Chris corrected. I guess I was just a bit surprised noticing some of these things on the Evo when the Minore didnt exhibit the same issues. But there are a heap of other things to like about the Evo ;)

Originally Posted by 44656E6E6973000 link=1278287144/4#4 date=1278367687

Coffee machine owners would be wise NOT to take their machines to Seattle Coffee Gear for descaling.

Just watched the Seattle Coffee Youtube video on descaling a coffee machine.

Just for the uninitiated (Ive never descaled my Sunbeam EM6910 in near 5 years that Ive owned it), I do want to look after my shiny new Rocket Evo. Im now familiar with back flushing, which I do perform everyday, but Im not familiar with descaling the boiler.

What is this lady doing wrong in the video?

Thanks in advance,

Lawrance

Hello Lawrance,

If your water is soft, decaling will be a rare job. Ideally operate your machine on water with a total hardness of <35ppm. Get some water tested if required.

Firstly, check the mushroom to see if a descale is required. Dont descale unless your machine needs it. Acid + metal + ?? :-?

Secondly, the correct way to do it on a HX machine is http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1274615034

I wouldnt be touching a machine under warranty. ;)

I cant watch the SCG vid, what is the problem?