Results 1 to 34 of 34

Thread: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    19

    Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Well the machine got traded today at another retailer as I couldnt bare the thought of jetblack making anymore money from me. Very disappointed by the terrible after sales lack of service from charley at jetblack espresso who as the owner couldnt even pull 4 shots of the same volume, he still indicated that my inconsistency was to blame. I couldnt believe it.

  2. #2
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    I reckon Id have trouble pulling 4 consistent shots on severe post HOST jetlag as well Marty. Hes just off a plane. ;)

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    19

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    I Asked him how he was doing and he said his all good now cause he made himself stay up for a day and a half. Whats with the you are you guys mates or something?
    Im just being very truthfull and honest.
    Customer service at jetblack is crap no call back for a week. Why dont you go to bezzera Aus and look at the schematics and tell me how it is possible to pull a consistent volume with the flow meter measuring total volume going into the machine not what ends up in the cup.
    I have spoken to a couple of service agents and they all agree with my theory.

  4. #4
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    19

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    Oh and then go to jetblack website and read the first 3 lines of the description

  5. #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    19

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    And also ask charley if he did or didnt agree with me on the flow meter and guess what he did!

  6. #6
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    Marty- Im puzzled as to how you think a rant here will improve things? :-?

    The gentlemanly (and appropriate) thing to to is to take up your grievances directly with the vendor and off forum.

    Whatever happened to etiquette #101? ::)

  7. #7
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    19

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    Look Im sorry but what are Internet forums about then if not to talk about experiences and to get advice. I did not break any rules

  8. #8
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    I agree that its by no means impossible to behave badly without breaking rules. ::)

  9. #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    19

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    Im not going to improve anything not my intention at all.
    Im not behaving badly either.
    Im stating facts and truth for everyone to see I have achieved that.
    Im not ranting either Im trying to have a discussion and you dont like it so Im the bad one.


  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, VIC
    Posts
    185

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    Quote Originally Posted by 54584B4D400E0F390 link=1320467172/8#8 date=1320475302
    Im not ranting either Im trying to have a discussion and you dont like it so Im the bad one.
    Sure sounds like a rant to me,
    and just curious, what part of this is meant to be a discussion?

  11. #11
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    19

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    Fine its a rant happy!!. So Im wrong to be passionate about coffee????

    dis·cus·sion
    [dih-skuhsh-uhn]
    - noun 1.*act or instance of discussing; consideration or examination by argument, comment, etc., esp. to explore solutions; informal debate

  12. #12
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    Quote Originally Posted by 525E4D4B4608093F0 link=1320467172/10#10 date=1320483827
    So Im wrong to be passionate about coffee????
    No Marty, youre right to be passionate about coffee. Its why were all here.

    If you expected a volumetric machine to be a golden goose- aiding in consistency or in the pursuit of excellence in the cup, then you were not wrong, merely misinformed or inadequately researched.

    If you were not prepared to address the issues of concern face to face, then yes, you were wrong and in fact some would view this public outburst as cowardice.

    Bottom line is that you sold a Bezzera and you purchased another Bezzera. In the hands of a skilled operator, its unlikely that you would pick any difference whatsoever on a blind tasting.

    Hopefully this machine will make you happy lest another supplier cop the rough end of your pineapple.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    352

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    Quote Originally Posted by 363A292F226C6D5B0 link=1320467172/2#2 date=1320472357
    tell me how it is possible to pull a consistent volume with the flow meter measuring total volume going into the machine not what ends up in the cup.
    Thats how flow meters work on all machines. They measure the volume of water that passes through, which is the combined total of the volume ending up in the cup, the amount of water left in the puck and the amount that escapes through the 3 way valve exhaust.
    The main reason the dose in the cup can vary in volume is user technique (varying grind or ground volume) but more often its because the user uses the wrong basket. Stick a double basket in the machine and press the single shot button and more water will stay in the puck, leaving less in the cup.

  14. #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    19

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    I did go into the shop and spoke and charle tested the machine in front of me not a coward at all mate I simply got no love from the team at jetblack.
    Look if you walked in for a new machine at $2700 and baught it with being told it was all good then none of this is my fault i was stupid to trust a profesional funny ha!!
    As you said misinformed and what can I say I also read about it and what was written on their website what else does a customer do??
    As for another bezzera I had a very pleasing talk with the importer in QLD and they said you can trade it in on another bezzera with the bezzera 50% trade in within 5 years they offer so thats what I did. No more volumetric for me cause it is simply flawed.
    The retailer where I got the gea today was wonderfully helpfull and completely understood.
    I am only speaking the truth and wanted to give everyone an update.
    Go and buy something that is not what its described and see if you are happy.




  15. #15
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    19

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    Hi Morgangt
    Well the thing is the opv actually opens and lets the water back into the tank thats why the cup is getting less volume.
    If the flow meter was after the opv then the correct programmed volume would be reached regardless of tamp or grind.

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    395

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    From your description of how the OPV is letting water back into the tank, it seems that the problem with the machine is something simple

    There was a blockage in the line after the OPV... something blocked the flow of the water and caused the pressure to build above the pressure release setting.

    I dont know what that blockage was, but I DO have a guess at what could have caused it.

    In short it sounds to me like like youve tightened the nut on the portafilter a bit too far, loosen it up a bit and it might actually work better

  17. #17
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    19

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    No blockage and machine was tested and the pro got different volumes as well. Also machine had a big 20ml difference in the cup with no coffee in the basket.
    Thanks for the idea but not the case :)

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    469

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    Quote Originally Posted by 072A3E2C2322252C0A3F0D2A3F2E4B0 link=1320467172/15#15 date=1320492471
    There was a blockage in the line after the OPV... something blocked the flow of the water and caused the pressure to build above the pressure release setting.
    Yes theres a blockage, its called ground coffee! without that youd just have hot water remember :P

    The pump in our machines runs at ~15bar, whereas you only want pressure at ~9bar, therefore if youre making coffee correctly, the opv should be releasing water back into the tank continuously while youre extracting a shot. Nothing to do with the screen or a nut or anything.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,048

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    Firstly:
    Before any more posts about blockage or user error, I refer you to Martys posts elsehwere:

    Quote Originally Posted by 797566606D2322140 link=1319787120/2#2 date=1319791414
    thanks,
    i placed a digital scale under my portafilter and with no coffee in basket each time i press for that same volume i programmed for it is different, the machinw will not give me the exact same volume
    and
    Quote Originally Posted by 65697A7C713F3E080 link=1319787120/6#6 date=1319796252
    Thanks kk
    I just played with the bezzera and its given me 4 out of 4 doses the same give or take 5ml with empty basket, strange ha maybe its a flow meter fault.
    so please explain the blockage or user-error theory with "no cofffee" in mind.

    Secondly:
    I thank the sponsors for their self moderation here - Martys somewhat entitled to whinge without censorship if he thinks he got an unfair deal (so long as its not below the belt!)

    Just like someone on ebay who has a 99.8% rating for thousands of sales - Im still more than happy to buy from them regardless if some individual has given them "one star" for everything. You cant please all the people all the time.

    I doubt Jetblack will see any dent in sales or satisfaction, given their massive volume of positive feedback on the other end of the scale.

    Now everybody take a deep breath before you post in this thread and think if youre actually contributing something that hasnt been said yet 8-)

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    395

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    Okay, If its something the retailer couldnt get right, and you couldnt get right, How is it the retailers fault?
    It sounds like you believe it to be a manufacturing defect, yet I dont see you bitch about Bezzera, Just Jetblack. Which seems somewhat uncalled for as they didnt make the machine, or force you to buy it

    I dunno, I feel that every machine has its quirks, and that it takes time to get to know them, Some take longer then others. I dont know how long you had the machine in question, but it didnt sound like you gave it all that much of a chance to redeem itself as you learned its quirks. As for the Volumetric button issue? Well, These things have a manual switch for a reason. (says the man who prefers to keep one eye on the timer, one on the pour, and the switch is ready to be turned off)

    (edit)
    Sorry Iaindb, I didnt see your post before I hit send...

    Additional, I did not see any of the other posts regarding the OPs problems with his machine. I only saw this one. I still think the OP was a little unreasonable to blame the Retailer for what appears to be a defect with the machine. But he does have a right to vent about his experiences.

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    469

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    Its not a machine defect, its just a design flaw in some (or all?) volumetric, vibration pump machines. It would have been smart to put the opv before the flowmeter, but this would have required re-engineering (money).

    But really, volumetric single group machines are a bit nonsensical anyway.

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,048

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    Quote Originally Posted by 56726878737A1B0 link=1320467172/20#20 date=1320548166
    Its not a machine defect, its just a design flaw in some (or all?) volumetric, vibration pump machines.
    I would agree that differing volumes of water for different puck pressures would seem a design flaw, but how is it not a defect to get _different_ amounts of water out of the same volumetric button when theres no coffee in the basket?

    Not taking any sides, just wondering...

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    469

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    Quote Originally Posted by 656D6562686E0C0 link=1320467172/21#21 date=1320577623
    Quote Originally Posted by 56726878737A1B0 link=1320467172/20#20 date=1320548166
    Its not a machine defect, its just a design flaw in some (or all?) volumetric, vibration pump machines.
    I would agree that differing volumes of water for different puck pressures would seem a design flaw, but how is it not a defect to get _different_ amounts of water out of the same volumetric button when theres no coffee in the basket?

    Not taking any sides, just wondering...
    Oh maybe i didnt read the thread properly... is that what the OP is saying?

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,048

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    Quote Originally Posted by 64405A4A4148290 link=1320467172/22#22 date=1320614190
    is that what the OP is saying?
    I think so, but not only in this thread - I happened to read his other thread and got it from there...

  25. #25
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    5,113

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    It could be something simple like a faulty flow meter

    Anyway Marty now has a kick a** Gea
    Many happy coffees await

    KK

  26. #26
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    19

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    hey everyone..
    the BZ07 is behind me and as KK put it, I do have a kick a** Gea and i love it..its a steaming beast
    I dont know about you guys but i go thru 1kg of beans a week.

  27. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,048

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    Quote Originally Posted by 4D415254591716200 link=1320467172/25#25 date=1320635794
    the BZ07 is behind me and as KK put it, I do have a kick a** Gea and i love it..its a steaming beast
    many happy coffees for you and your guests!

    1kg of beans a week
    :o

    sounds like youre addicted to methylxanthines like me... do you like chocolate? ;)

  28. #28
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    19

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    i do like chocolate. who doesnt

    is 1 kg a lot you reckon? am i an addict? I had a laugh

  29. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,048

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    Quote Originally Posted by 64687B7D703E3F090 link=1320467172/27#27 date=1320636400
    who doesnt
    some people, apparently. I dont understand them. My mother-in-law included (cant stand the stuff)

    Quote Originally Posted by 64687B7D703E3F090 link=1320467172/27#27 date=1320636400
    is 1 kg a lot you reckon? am i an addict? I had a laugh
    for my last workplace of 30 people, no about 1kg a week was normal. For an individual or small family? Do your feet touch the ground when you walk?!

  30. #30
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Altona, Melbourne
    Posts
    1,577

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    Quote Originally Posted by 6C607375783637010 link=1320467172/25#25 date=1320635794
    i go thru 1kg of beans a week.

    that explains a lot actually ;D

  31. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    395

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    it really does depend on whether thats 1kg for yourself, or sharing it out...

    if youre doing it yourself, thats 7 cups a day... yeesh Im surprised youre not bouncing off the walls (and not just cos youve got a pretty kickarse gea either) :D

  32. #32
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    5,113

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    Mrs Kosmo & I go through 600gr to 1 kg of home roasted coffee a week

    KK

  33. #33
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    19

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    i have 1 in the morning and maybe another 3 in the arvo but i do make coffee for friends and family who drop by..oh and then you have the big BBQ on the weekend too.
    you know what i love hearing though...

    Marty that is better then most cafes in sydney.
    now that is a very nice compliment.
    :)

  34. #34
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    19

    Re: Volumetric Bezzera BZ07 DE Update

    Quote Originally Posted by 4E464E494345270 link=1320467172/28#28 date=1320638086
    some people, apparently. I dont understand them. My mother-in-law included (cant stand the stuff)
    My best mate is the same he cant understand how i can spend so much money on a espresso machine, he is a beer drinker, i always say imagine if you could brew the best beer in the word in your home anytime you wanted and he goes quiet



Similar Threads

  1. Volumetric Bezzera bz07 DE
    By marty76 in forum Brewing Equipment - Pointy End ($1500-$3000)
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 28th October 2011, 10:08 PM
  2. Bezzera BZ07 PID?
    By jkarlis in forum Brewing Equipment - Pointy End ($1500-$3000)
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 28th February 2010, 02:32 PM
  3. Bezzera BZ07
    By rwvl in forum Brewing Equipment - Pointy End ($1500-$3000)
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 4th February 2009, 08:07 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •