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Thread: Brugnetti Simona GROUP HEAD issues - HEEELLLP!!!

  1. #1
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    Brugnetti Simona GROUP HEAD issues - HEEELLLP!!!

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    * *So, the same old story... boy meets coffee machine, its true love, they live happily ever after until one of them reveals a fundamental flaws that threatens to destroy the happy relationship...* :-/ will true love conquer all? You tell me!

    * *The problem is this: There are grooves inside the grouphead from where the portafilter lugs have rubbed over the years, (possibly from a badly fitting PF from a different machine, not sure) and while back flushing I get leakage over the handle and PF, sometimes it seals, sometimes not. Mostly not. Now also happening while PF is loaded with coffee, which was not happening before!

    * *Vital Stats: Brugnetti SIMONA Volumetric, full "rebuild" by espresso tech who sold thu FeeBay, and neglected to mention Grouphead issues. Possibly 10 years old.* Owned by me for 2 months. Looking up, there is one thick seal for PF to lock into and it seems ok, very pliable and rubbery.

    * *PF locks at different places on the clock dial depending on whether lugs are in grooves or not, from 8pm to 4pm on clock dial(with 6pm directly at operator) and while back-flushing today (1st time for me) I heard a sharp CRACK and the PF was then canted down on the RHS a fraction with water coming over PF edges...

    * *Now, no matter what I do, the PF will only lock 1 time out of 10. Like caffeinated Russian Roulette...


    * *Will a few shims under seal let it work? Can you see the photos clear enough to get an idea of what were facing? Will this love last??!?!?



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    Re: Brugnetti Simona GROUP HEAD issues - HEEELLLP!!!

    Doh! Should have thought of this before posting:

    If the grouphead is actually wrecked, can any pro engineer types tell me if its possible to re fill the indentations with fresh brass and then smooth over? Sort of braze it in then buff off excess till true round and flat face is achieved?


    Any ideas or comments much appreciated, guys!

    Zoltan.

  3. #3
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    Re: Brugnetti Simona GROUP HEAD issues - HEEELLLP!!!

    Very much doubt the group head is severely damaged, the ears have not taken any of the chrome off.

    First question: If viewed from the top of the machine looking down and superimposing a clock (back of the machine 12, front 6 oclock), where does the group handle lock in?

    I would first of all remove the group seal, and have a really close look at the metal groove it rests in. Sounds to me like the handle is actually not rotating around enough, meaning your seal is too thick or there is a high spot. There could also be bits of old spacer material up there that are impeding a good seal.

    Also note with the group seal, the top edge is chamfered, this must go in upwards.

    Brugnetti group spacers are available through coffeeparts, part no. 700200.

    -Rick


    *Edit*, just realised you mentioned where the PF locks in. Dont mind me. 4 PM sounds good, 8 PM is dangerous as theres very little material for the lugs to hold onto. You could crack the group. Remove and re-seat the group seal, and file those lugs on the group handle until there is NO metal/metal contact horizontally. Then if the handle goes around too far, order a spacer or two.

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    Re: Brugnetti Simona GROUP HEAD issues - HEEELLLP!!!

    Hi, Rick! Thanks for the reply...

    As to still seeing chrome, it is NOT there. The best light I had was a blue colour LED torch which gives it a very misleading colour. The shiny edge with the wave pattern is actually the brass edge of groove catching light. It is over 1mm deep in places.


    Q1) PF locks at different places on the clock dial depending on whether lugs are in grooves or not, from 8pm to 4pm on clock dial(with 6pm directly at operator)

    Q2) I will remove the group seal asap, but it looks fine on close inspection and I had very few problems till the loud crack happened while back flushing, and now problems are exponentially worse...

    Point 3: once group seal is out, I will check all of the seating for any high points or mess, and whether it is right way in or not...


    So, now you know it is definitely worn in large grooves and the "chrome" is a lighting mistake, what do you think of the group condition? I can actually feel the grooves as Im locking it in... and the slight vertical shifts of the PF handle as they either catch the lugs or miss them...



    Zoltan.


  5. #5
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    Re: Brugnetti Simona GROUP HEAD issues - HEEELLLP!!!

    comment edited above, I missed where you mentioned the handle locking in. I think your problem is that the ears are making contact with the group horizontally - they shouldnt, they should only serve as a centring guide. Id be filing back the lugs until there is a slight amount of play, then re-seat the group seal and order some spacers if need be.

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    Re: Brugnetti Simona GROUP HEAD issues - HEEELLLP!!!

    Yes, I noticed it as I hit reply. Your advice sounds good, (and CHEAP. Cheap is good! Cheap plus works is even gooder!)
    so Ill get onto that as soon as there is a spare half hour Im not hectic. Hopefully this weekend for the filing, cleaning and disassembling... Stay tuned, and well see if the Forrest Gump of coffee machines can change a group seal and install spacers unaided!

    Unrelated Q, Rick: What is the best way to completely disinfect a coffee machine that had water from an infected filter thru it? Think Giardia and friends... Is complete dissasemblement and acid bath my only answer, or would you recommend something less drastic?

    Zoltan.

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    Re: Brugnetti Simona GROUP HEAD issues - HEEELLLP!!!

    I reckon a hot solution of water, white vinegar and salt in the tank should do it. If you follow Chris excellent instructions on descaling a HX machine, that would be just as effective as complete disassembly as youre not trying to dissolve anything.

    Might take a bit of flushing to remove the taste, but will be alot easier than pulling it all apart.

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    Re: Brugnetti Simona GROUP HEAD issues - HEEELLLP!!!

    Sounds like a plan! Ill give you an update when its done.

    Thanks for your advice, mate! Catch you soon...



    Z.


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    Re: Brugnetti Simona GROUP HEAD issues - HEEELLLP!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 2A353E3E313E3A500 link=1331886553/5#5 date=1331898282
    Think Giardia and friends...
    Giardia is an organism with a particular life cycle (cant remember now, but had a run in with it a few years ago). Look up on the Internet for effective ways of treating it in water supplies - possibly chlorine or just time, but if you seriously suspect it Id be very cautious.

    And be careful filing off metal as you cant put it back on!

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    Re: Brugnetti Simona GROUP HEAD issues - HEEELLLP!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 223D3636393632580 link=1331886553/5#5 date=1331898282
    What is the best way to completely disinfect a coffee machine that had water from an infected filter thru it? Think Giardia and friends...
    Was the water filter protecting a coffee machine or the whole households water supply ?

    Giardia and friends (some of them anyway) can be transmitted person to person after contact with infected water and from things washed in infected water as well as simply ingesting infected water. So if the filter was servicing more than just the coffee machine it may not be the only problem. Esp. as the infection had to have a source too.

    If youre filtering the source supply with multiple filters covering multiple outlets, then your filtration system provider should offer some advice.


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    Re: Brugnetti Simona GROUP HEAD issues - HEEELLLP!!!

    Unfortunately, all too true. There were a number of difficulties to overcome and the coffee machine was just one of them.

    New filtration system for the whole house is on order and were living on boxed water now... lack of caffeine is not helping stress levels!! A coffeesnob with no machine is an ugly thing... Bar 9 is a lifesaver!



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    Re: Brugnetti Simona GROUP HEAD issues - HEEELLLP!!!

    So, I have replaced the seal and added 3 spacers underneath, this is now bringing the handle to lock at at 5-7 Oclock on the coffee clock...

    Machine is warming up now. Test time soon!

    Handle trouble turned out to be the opposite of what I assumed, too. The lugs are too small horizontally and have a good 5-6 mm of sideways play.

    I may have inadvertently been locking the handle in too far to one side due to the excess play, resulting in the spray coming out where the PF was only just inside the rim of the seal. The original seal was a seated a little uneven too. These 2 points worked together to get me my lovely little problem. I think the original Feebay seller just grabbed any old handle when packing it up after sale, not thinking it would bother anyone. Boy was he wrong!!

    A new PF handle is on the agenda the second the budget allows... Coffeeparts is awesome to deal with, too! Massive thumbs up guys; patience, advice, more patience and superfast service = You guys are great!!



    Thanks for the help, everyone! Today, a seal replacement; Tomorrow, THE WORRRLLLD!!! (mad laughter fades into distance.....)



    Zoltan.

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    Re: Brugnetti Simona GROUP HEAD issues - HEEELLLP!!!

    Hello again all!

    Definitely is a handle locking issue, when I lock in the PF how I used to do it the PF lug on one side catches in the grouphead channel in photo and then sometimes pops out of it when under pressure (because of the 6mm sideways play from wrong PF...) each shot is now a "bend and check PF alignment before starting pour" exercise. If I pull the handle towards me as I lock, were good to go.

    At least I have a reason for the problem now, and an $80 maximum fix-up cost... :)


    Zoltan.



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