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Thread: ECM Giotto Pressure Adjustment

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    ECM Giotto Pressure Adjustment

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi my Giotto is a few years old now and has been serviced once now, this morning I turned her on and the front pressure dial is showing pressure levels 1.5 to 2
    I would like to adjust this myself as I would love to get her humming again

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    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    Re: ECM Giotto Pressure Adjustment

    Thatts high. Before adjusting when was the last time you descaled?

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    Re: ECM Giotto Pressure Adjustment

    There will be a reason for this and a simple adjustment is not the answer. You need to have the machine checked by a technician.

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    Senior Member GrahamK's Avatar
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    Re: ECM Giotto Pressure Adjustment

    I was also going to say, whenever Ive had pressure "dial" issues with my Giotto, it tuned out to be scale problems, usually showing low pressure. A service including a descale was the resolution, although one time it required a new gauge. However they were not sudden occurrences as you have described, more like gradual degradation.

    More recently I have taken to doing my own interim descales to delay re-occurrences.

    However suggestions by those with better technical knowledge should be heeded.

    GrahamK

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    Re: ECM Giotto Pressure Adjustment

    I did a descale three weeks ago, it took a while to flush through.....used it every day for 2 weeks fine.....then left it sitting for 4 days (have been away) turned it on and the gauge hovers around 2, it did drop to 1.5 yesterday but today back at 2 ish

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    Re: ECM Giotto Pressure Adjustment

    There could be a problem with your pressure stat, or maybe the infamous ECM electronics could be playing up? Dont know if that would affect the pressure though...
    Yeah get it checked by a tech I reckon!

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    Re: ECM Giotto Pressure Adjustment

    Quote Originally Posted by 767D71796F6C7E797D6F7079651C0 link=1334445962/5#5 date=1334494065
    There could be a problem with your pressure stat, or maybe the infamous ECM electronics could be playing up? Dont know if that would affect the pressure though...
    Yeah get it checked by a tech I reckon!
    Unlikely to be the electronics as the pressurestat is merely acting as a pressure sensitive switch and the fault lies here.

    The machine should however be rewired if its a GP and hasnt been done. This may well save a control board replacement sometime in the future. These are jobs for a technician.

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    Re: ECM Giotto Pressure Adjustment

    Thanks all, dropped her in for a service today....will let you know outcome

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    Re: ECM Giotto Pressure Adjustment

    OK, just got her back.....it was gummed up with the descale product I used....apparently turned to green jelly and got in all the pipes, cost me $100 to clean it out, I dont plan to ever descale my machine ever again
    Product used
    Clean Machine Premium Expresso Machine Cleaner $20
    after following the instructions I ran 5 tanks of clean water though it to flush but it seems that it still got into all pipes and stayed there.....techs advise keep away from descale products for this type of machine, just bring her in every 2 years or so for a service....good advise if you ask me

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    Re: ECM Giotto Pressure Adjustment

    sounds like you used group head cleaner instead of descaler

  11. #11
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: ECM Giotto Pressure Adjustment

    Clean Machine Premium Expresso Machine Cleaner is a back flushing preparation, not for descaling.
    This is a case of the user using an incorrect product.
    The quote below from Bombora, http://clean-machine.com.au/Espresso-Machine-Cleaning-Powder-500gram-Clean-Machine.html
    "Clean Machine Premium Espresso Machine Powder has been developed for use with commercial & domestic espresso machines in the routine maintenance of back flushing and the removal of coffee oil residue and scum on group heads, valves, lines and associated parts."

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    Re: ECM Giotto Pressure Adjustment

    No, I used the right product.....I just quoted the wrong one online
    the stuff I used to descale was
    the same brand (I think) I have attached a photo of the bottle (clearly green descale product) it left a green residue in the internal hoses and blocked the gauges act

    sorry for quoting the incorrect bottle, really annoying
    :-X


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    Re: ECM Giotto Pressure Adjustment

    actually here is a link
    http://clean-machine.com.au/Triple-Action-Domestic-Descale-Liquid-250ml-Clean-Machine.html

    the coffee place i bought it from recommended it, now looking at the website it looks to me it is for automatics
    maybe I am wrong but it is going in the bin
    The Tech told me this is common for people to descale and clog up their semi commercial machines

  14. #14
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    Re: ECM Giotto Pressure Adjustment

    Quote Originally Posted by 6062626472727768756E010 link=1334445962/11#11 date=1335004652
    No, I used the right product.....I just quoted the wrong one online
    the stuff I used to descale was
    the same brand (I think) I have attached a photo of the bottle (clearly green descale product) it left a green residue in the internal hoses and blocked the gauges act

    sorry for quoting the incorrect bottle, really annoying
    :-X
    Fair enough, we all make mistakes.
    I use Cafetto Restore in my machine regularly without any problems. :)

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    Re: ECM Giotto Pressure Adjustment

    Quote Originally Posted by 3D3F3F392F2F2A3528335C0 link=1334445962/8#8 date=1334976760
    after following the instructions I ran 5 tanks of clean water though it to flush but it seems that it still got into all pipes and stayed there.....
    well I learned something new today :)

    out of curiosity, how did you flush 5L through it? by running the pump through the group for that long, or something else?

    thanks

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    Re: ECM Giotto Pressure Adjustment

    I have used the same product with my Giotto with good results a couple of times in the past 12 months, and not had the problems acessvito has had.

    Its due to be done again but Im a bit nervous about doing it now after this story.* :-/

    I wonder if there was possible a problem with the particular bottle in question.

    GrahamK

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    Re: ECM Giotto Pressure Adjustment

    Its interesting.* I got given the same descaler as a "freebie" for a purchase.* I may have used it once I cant remember but the bottle is still 99% full.* Why would the solution turn to jelly unless there was some kind of reactant or gelatin/collagen protein of sort...

    My usual descaler is the caffeto restore sachets and they work very well.* I was going to use the bottle of green descaler if I ran out but need to do a bit more research why it turned to green jelly in your machine.* *:-?


    The Techs advise of not descaling for 2 years I think is a little reckless. For me I need to descale at least once every 6 months due to Adelaide water and this is even after a water softener. Adelaide water is very hard but with the softener, my water is equivalent to Sydney water which is reasonable. Even then I find a need to descale every 6 months sometimes less depending on usage.

  18. #18
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    Re: ECM Giotto Pressure Adjustment

    We use and recommend Bombora activated descaler powder.

    I have never heard of an issue with the liquid product. Sounds like some sort of chemical reaction. Was there anything else in the boiler? Wonder what happens if this stuff is mixed with backwash detergent?* :-?

    Can I suggest you call them to discuss what happened, how old the product was etc? They will want to know the exact circumstances of your descaling event and specifically how you went about it.

    Many CSers have used liquid descaler with excellent results.

    Chris

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    Re: ECM Giotto Pressure Adjustment

    HI Accessvito,
    Just thought I would throw some commentary in to give some perspective on the products mentioned. The clean machine triple action descaler whilst green in colour only uses food colour - so safe, non-reactionary and water soluble. This product has no coagulents or thickening agents and all batches are tested for constancy & performance ... the shelf life is very long so there wont be any stock age issues. The green residue from your machine isnít something we have seen to date but we see a lot of different things occur with cleaning mainly based on the environmental variables affecting cleaning outcomes such as water quality (eg algae formation due to calcium levels) , condition of machine , amount of chemical used and how it is used (ie soaking time, dilution, rinsing etc).
    Many customers prefer the liquid as it ensures the chemical is completely dissolved and reduces the risk of residual chemical in the boiler..., whereas some clients prefer the powdered product as higher concentrations can be achieved which can be beneficial for when there are known scale issues (as opposed to routine descaling). Whilst both the liquid and powder descalers work well, it can also come down to regularity of use which is more predicated by the water quality and machine use (irrelevant of whether they be auto or traditional machines). These products have been and are still tested on most types of equipment since the initial development in 2004.

    The only way to really figure out what occurred in this specific case is to do a profile test on the residue from the machine - although this may be a bit late now. Be assured that there may have been some other environmental factors at play here and it is certainly an unusual/one off situation. I would be happy to send you some additional product (powder or liquid) and work personally with you on your next descale to get a great result (which is what we usually get). Let me know if i can help you further.

    Thanks
    Bernard

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    Re: ECM Giotto Pressure Adjustment

    Thanks Bernard, I always use filtered water
    I have since thrown out the bottle of descaler
    It took 5 tanks to flush the colour out of the water
    I ran it through the group head, water spout and steam wand trying to flush it through
    it tasted awful for a while
    Mostly annoyed as my machine was out of action for my birthday so I had to use mypressi twist (better than blend 43) for a week
    oh well all sorted for now
    thanks for your offer though
    :)

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    Re: ECM Giotto Pressure Adjustment

    Quote Originally Posted by 6A68686E78787D627F640B0 link=1334445962/19#19 date=1335279712
    I ran it through the group head, water spout and steam wand trying to flush it through
    depending on how you did the descale, this wont necessarily get rid of it all out of the system. Descaling is tricky on a HX/E61 because there are pipes that dont have any flow at various stages in the cycle, so if you just flush water through all the outlets it may not even be flowing in some area (such as the grouphead). This descale solution may then fall back into the boiler meaning you can keep flushing and flushing and youll get that smell/taste for ages.

    However that doesnt explain why it gummed up!?!

    At least youve got it running again - a Giotto that doesnt make coffee is just a very expensive paperweight ;) Or mirror, as the kids like to use mine for!

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    I've just joined the Giotto club. Yesterday I picked up a tidy 2006 ECM Giotto with all original fixtures.

    It had a full overhaul a few years ago and it seems that the pressure has been raised. It currently reads 1.3 bar, which seems to produce coffee that is a little hot. I've read that these come set to 1bar at the factory. So what is the coffee snobs recommended setting?

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    Mine sits at 1.2

  24. #24
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    My 2006 is around 1.2 - 1.3 Pressurestat
    New rocket is around 1.15 - 1,25 PID
    Both coffees are great.
    Most Gauges may bit a little off but not by too much

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    Thanks guys. I've turned it down to 1.2 Bar. I'll see what difference it makes to my coffee tomorrow morning and report back.

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    This morning I let it warm up for 45 minutes, and when I finally pulled a shot it was reading just over 1 Bar (not the 1.2 I was expecting). I even bled a little steam to check the pressure was accurate, and it went straight back to 1. So I suspect the 15 minute warm up I was quoted is not correct. It needs longer for the pressure to stabilise.

    I had a bit of difficulty getting the extraction going, but once it was done I'd pulled an awesome shot. Temperature and taste was perfect. Puck colour was perfect, although it delaminated a little indicating that I'd slightly underfilled the basket and had some flow issues.

    I'm now using an 18 gram VST basket now so I need to go back and recalibrate my grind and fill. Will report back when I've got everything tweaked.

  27. #27
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    Ok so the 1.2 I was aiming for turned out to be 0.95-1.05 bar, which was a bit too low to get a full extraction. I've turned it up to 1.1-1.15, and I'm starting to get tiger stripes. So it's possible that 1.2 is the sweet spot for these machines. Certainly I think 1.3-1.4 is too high.

  28. #28
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    That depends on your flushing technique, and your desire to quickly pull succesive shots or steam large volumes of milk. My veneziano sits at .95-1.1 and still requires a long cooling flush. I would agree that 1.3-1.4 is too high however.



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