View Poll Results: Which Machine should I keep?

Voters
17. You may not vote on this poll
  • ECM Giotto Premium 2007

    10 58.82%
  • Faema Compact E98 S1 2007

    7 41.18%
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 137
Like Tree1Likes

Thread: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

  1. #1
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,006

    Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Ok, so Ive searched the forum for a comparison of the two and have not found a topic that is relevant to what Im after.*

    Im in a bit of a predicament...a good predicament in that I have to choose between one or the other.* I currently have the ECM Giotto and am very happy with its function and form.* Very familiar with the machine now and really quite comfortable where I am.* However, I have available to me a Faema compact S1 that needs some work.* Not being one to shy from bringing something back to life, I am quite sure I can resurrect this Faema compact S1.

    Having said that I will eventually be faced with a very serious question.* Which one to keep.* I already have a travel machine (Lelit Combi) that sits happily in my office until my next holiday.* I cannot justify having two home machines...two grinders maybe...

    I need some feedback on what others may think and ideally if youve owned either one or both.* Let me know your thoughts on which I should keep.* Thanks!* :)* (also not sure if this fits in the pointy end or the $3k plus range machines - I think it may creep into the $3k plus...Ill let a mod deal with that appropriately.)

  2. #2
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,411

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    I have the E98 A1 version of the Faema, its a rotary pump (in built tank or plumbed) and volumetric.

    Its built like a tank. I love its refinement and low noise due to the pump, but the cooling flushes are a bit of a pain. My understanding not much can be done to resolve this.

    I often think about swapping for a traditional E61 machine, mainly as they are a bit smaller and more blingy, but also due to the properly calibrated ones running at the right temp (from the stuff I have read here).

    It would be good to see a comparison of these two if you end up getting it.

    Cheers

  3. #3
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,006

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Hi artman, I still remember you offering for a swap when I just got my Giotto ;)

    I like the "commercialness" of the Faema/la cimbali but I do like the flashiness of the Giotto. It may be more suited for the home being a centre piece etc. The faema width wise is no wider at its widest in fact the giotto is a little wider with its "hips". Depth and height wise there are a fair difference in the Faema being larger.

    Regarding the cooling flush of the faema, can it not be "tweaked" like the Giotto to optimise the brew pressure and boiler pressure? I know after my "tweaking" Im doing much smaller cooling flushes on the Giotto.

  4. #4
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,411

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Oh yeah, I do recall having a chat along those lines, your memory is better than mine!! It seems to be the CS way, one is always wanting to see what another machine will be like!! [smiley=cheesy.gif]

    I think the main reason the Faemas look larger to the normal E61s, is due to the top tray extending forward over the group, giving it much more presence.* The benefit of this though is the massive warming tray up top.* I have 9 cups, a PF, brush, a couple of espresso cups, tamper, basket all sitting on the tray!* The S1s look a bit narrower in some pics, maybe its just an optical illusion?* The A1 is listed as 371mm wide, 581 tall, 508 deep, and a svelte 49kg....

    I dont believe the brew temp can be tweaked as per the E61 style machines that run a thermosyphon type setup.* There doesnt look like anything can be tweaked apart from boiler pressure and level.* I hope someone can tell me I am wrong.

    I have lowered the boiler pressure but to little effect.* The heat exchanger looks like a simple cylinder that partially sits in the boiler water (part 700236 below), so I guess the boiler water level will effect the temp inside the HX tube.* I havent played around with the level too much, its at the lower end now, if I raise it I get more wet steam as the steam is not taken from the top of the boiler for some reason, but off the side, a bit down from the top.



    I will be comparing the A1 to the Breville DB soon, I am really curious to see the outcome in espresso taste. In milk texturing I reckon the BDB trumps the A1, its slower but amazingly easy to get perfect microfoam.

    Cheers

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    47

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    I have the Faema Compact S1. I agree with Artman, these machine are built like a tank.

    Milk Texturing is difficult to get right, mainly due to the 4 hole tip and the pressure that comes out.

    After I swapped my 4 hole tip for a 2 hole things still went very very quickly, but the results were a lot better.

    Artman, I am curious to know - do you use the double basket exclusively?

    I have noticed a massive difference in taste/quality and crema of the resulting shot when comparing the double basket to the single.


  6. #6
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,411

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    I have the 4 hole steam tip, original holes were 2mm in diameter. I filled them in and redrilled all 4 holes to 1mm diameter (quarter of the area) and this made a huge difference to the end result. Its still quick to steam, but I can manage ok milk most the time and once in a while a ripper result (following KKTOs method).

    I always use a double ridgeless Synesso basket, I bought this with a matching Pullman tamper, and I also always use the naked PF. The espresso shots are always very yummy, only once in a blue moon something goes not quite right, but even then they are ok in taste.

    Never even tried the single basket, most people struggle to get decent shots with it. I use a the double shot as the base for all coffees, and usually stop it short of 60ml.

    Cheers

  7. #7
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,006

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Just picked up the machine. Its a Faema E98 Compact S1 April 2007 model. Switched the power on and everything lights up! Good sign. Really in need of a good clean but other than the external coffee oil grime its in good condition. I suspect its a blown element as the seller says its their parents machine and they had it turned on without filling the water. Should be pretty easy to check. comes with two portafilters, single and double, the plastic tamper and plastic blind basket, bonus cleaning brush, art of coffee making book, and an extra 4 hole steam tip...I was kinda hoping it was a two hole steam tip but I really cannot complain for the price.

    Looking at this machine its not exactly "pretty" like a Giotto. Ill have to clean it up, get it working and then make a comparison.

  8. #8
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,006

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Here it is...before cleaning. Any thoughts on the condition? pretty dirty for only 5 years old really.






  9. #9
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,411

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Looks quite decent.* You can easily take of the side/front/rear/top panels to get a good look inside (machine unplugged of course). The electronics should be under the drip tray under a panel.

    Likewise you can easily remove the collar, shower screen distribution disc for a look/clean.

    I got a replacement softener for the suction hose (not the same type), a generic one from coffee-a-roma. Interestingly when I disected the original resin softener the balls inside were much smaller than the replacement filter.

    What is the other hose with the black thing?

    Cheers


    Cheers

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    539

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Quote Originally Posted by 5547495F43260 link=1341214541/6#6 date=1341288898
    I suspect its a blown element

    This machine has a circuit breaker that cuts power to the element if it gets too hot (eg. if water level was too low). So there is probably nothing wrong with the element - just reset the circuit breaker. The circuit breaker is under the right-hand side panel, near the front. Youll see a little red button - if it has tripped, you just need to press that button until it clicks and you should have power again.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    539

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Quote Originally Posted by 4152544D414E200 link=1341214541/8#8 date=1341310409
    What is the other hose with the black thing?
    Its for the low water level cut-out. If water tank is too low it cuts power to the pump.

  12. #12
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,006

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Quote Originally Posted by 7F5451513D0 link=1341214541/9#9 date=1341311731
    This machine has a circuit breaker that cuts power to the element if it gets too hot (eg. if water level was too low). So there is probably nothing wrong with the element - just reset the circuit breaker.

    Music to my ears ;D

  13. #13
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,006

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Well, Ive opened her up and its clean as a whistle inside. Definitely can see that its only 5 years old. Unfortunately though, it wasnt the circuit breaker as the breaker was not tripped. That would have been a simple fix. Then again, they never specifically said what was wrong with it.
    Got to say theres a lot more in the Faema than compared to the inside of a Giotto. Im liking the "commercial" build of the Faema.

    I notice the green ball thing is indicating a full boiler above the max level and I can see that it is floating in water.

    Another note, the water tank is stainless steel. I guess its actually a good thing but so used to a plastic water tank. Some indication of calcium in the filter of the hot water wand, other than that, cant see anything wrong until I fill it with water and fire her up.

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    47

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Youll love this machine saoye.

    I have the S1 and it is 10 years old, exactly the same as yours mine was clean as a whistle as well.

    I would change out the water filter, theyre cheap and you can buy them from Bombora. These machines are really easy to work on as well.

  15. #15
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,006

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    All electricals and pump seems to work and indicators as well.* Only thing that doesnt seem to work is the element.* When I press boiler fill button water immediately flow out from the anti vac valve at the top of the boiler. The green ball seem to never come down from the very top of the viewing glass no matter how much I let the water out of the group head.* Should the boiler be that full?* Turned the dial to 2 and does not heat up.* If the machine cannot blow an element than what could it be?* How hard shoul I be pressing the circuit breaker switch because I dont think its tripped.

  16. #16
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,411

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Does the boiler level gauge not have min and max marks? The level should be between the two marks. It looks like the ball is maxed out and the boiler is completely full. You need to drain the boiler via the water tap, not the group. Or you can drain manually if your boiler has a drain nipple , just fit a hose to it and crack the nut open.

    If you are suitably qualified you could check if the element is getting power. Or disconnect the element and check if its resistance.

    Cheers

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    539

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Quote Originally Posted by 46545A4C50350 link=1341214541/14#14 date=1341354416
    How hard shoul I be pressing the circuit breaker switch because I dont think its tripped.
    Needs to be pressed fairly hard.

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    539

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Quote Originally Posted by 3F2C2A333F305E0 link=1341214541/15#15 date=1341367521
    You need to drain the boiler via the water tap, not the group.
    Yep, not the group. Although the water tap wont do anything unless you can get boiler pressure. Id just unscrew the antivac valve and insert a length of plastic tube in the hole and siphon out some of the water. Sounds like the boiler is overfilled.

  19. #19
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,006

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Quote Originally Posted by 476C6969050 link=1341214541/16#16 date=1341371388
    Needs to be pressed fairly hard.
    Is it supposed to be flush against the box once pressed or does it still protrude a little? I dont want to press hard only to break it I guess.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    539

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Quote Originally Posted by 61737D6B77120 link=1341214541/18#18 date=1341373911
    Quote Originally Posted by 476C6969050 link=1341214541/16#16 date=1341371388
    Needs to be pressed fairly hard.
    Is it supposed to be flush against the box once pressed or does it still protrude a little?* I dont want to press hard only to break it I guess.*
    No, still protrudes. It doesnt move very far. Dont press it that hard that it breaks, just need to press it firmly - if you hear a click then it has reset.

  21. #21
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,006

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Thanks both,

    I will syphon the boiler and see if that does anything...I doubt it would in terms of the element. Ill give it one more go on the breaker and then if still no luck Ill take out the boiler and pull out the element to have a look. Will be a weekend job I think.

    Thanks!

  22. #22
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,411

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    You could check the continuity of the circuit breaker easily and confirm/eliminate it.

    If its setup internally like my machine you can remove the element with boiler in place.

    Cheers

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    539

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Quote Originally Posted by 3F2C2A333F305E0 link=1341214541/21#21 date=1341387464
    You could check the continuity of the circuit breaker easily and confirm/eliminate it.

    If its setup internally like my machine you can remove the element with boiler in place.

    Cheers
    Agree, not that Ive removed the element before, but on my machine it certainly looks like it can be removed once the side panel is off. I dont think youd need to remove the boiler or anything like that. Should be fairly easy to do.

    But as artman said, you should be able to test the circuit breaker and/or element in place, without having to remove anything.

  24. #24
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,006

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Well heres a plus! Yes no need to remove the boiler to get to the Faema (actualy La cimbali branded) element. I can also get at most of the big calcium build up prior to a descale too. Thats a big plus for the Faema E98 S1.

    Here are some pics of the element - can someone tell me if its burnt out? I can see near the base that some of the external coating has come off exposing the copper.

    Also see the disgusting scale muck on the bottom of the boiler and the iceberg that was blocking the inlet to the water level indicator, hence the green ball never did really fall even after I siphoned the boiler.










  25. #25
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,411

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Are you able to measure the resistance of the element?

    Cheers

  26. #26
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,006

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Quote Originally Posted by 4A595F464A452B0 link=1341214541/24#24 date=1341412679
    Are you able to measure the resistance of the element?
    Hi artman, I do have the digital multimeter/data logger from bean bay but Im not sure how to use it for the electrical side of thing.* I set the black lead into the "COM" port and the red lead into the other port that I can see an ohm sign, turn the dial to the ohm sign and then touch the separate terminals of the unplugged elements with the tip of each probe and Im reading 35 ohm.* does that sound right?

  27. #27
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,411

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Yep, sounds ok to me. I just measured a lelit/nemox element and it was 50.5 ohms, so looks like your element is ok.

    Here is a link to an article that explains the basics of using a multimeter:
    http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Using-a-Multimeter-/A_107735/article.html

    If you search that site they have done a few other articles.

    Cheers

  28. #28
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,006

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    ok...so I can salvage the element...Im a little baffled on what else it could be then.

  29. #29
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,411

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Does one of the manuals have a wiring diagram ? Does your machine have a circuit board under the drip tray?

    It could be the relay or one of the sensors giving a false signal and then element not getting power, eg if the machine thinks the tank / boiler is empty it might turn off the power to the element.

    I will have a look tonight and see what I can find in the diagrams.

    Cheers

  30. #30
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,006

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Well I took the element into work and got our lab to check and the continuity reading was correct. we even hooked it up in the test facility to see that the element heats up and its very quick. So the element is perfectly fine.

    There is a low level light that activates when the tank is low. This works so I would assume that it is correctly detecting the water level. Then there would be the circuit breaker that cuts out the element. So Im wondering if its something to do with the cirbuit breaker.

    My work lab technician asked if theres any kind of simple overload safety fuse in the system and he thinks that could be it. Ill check in the circuit board area again.

  31. #31
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,006

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    I called up the FAEMA importer in Adelaide and spoke to their service tech. Explained the scenario and hes almost 100% sure its the overtemp switch is tripped (circuit breaker) or the switch is faulty. He says theres nothing else if all other lights etc and functions are working. He said to give the button a real good push...said sometimes it would hurt your thumb to push it in as an indication on how hard to push. Other option is to bypass the overtemp switch completely. Im not liking that idea...since an element would be much more expensive than the switch.

  32. #32
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,411

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Just test the continuity of the circuit breaker, you can do this quickly and easily with the multimeter.* Then you will know for sure if it is tripped. You will need to disconnect one of the wires from the circuit breaker (machine unplugged from wall etc etc) to take it out of the circuit.

    Cheers

  33. #33
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,006

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Its ALIVE!!! I gave the over-temp cut-off button a real hard push and there was a distinct "toc" sound.* Mind you the actual button itself did not depress much...just something gave and that was it.* I filled up the boiler and the little green ball happily floated up in the water level viewer and turned the element on.* Not a sound...but after 1 minute sure enough the boiler was warming up rapidly.* Its quiet right up to when the anti-vac valve started hissing hard until it popped up and sealed the pressure in.* It was at this point I saw that I did not really tighten the element in very tightly as water was starting to drip around the seal of the element so I switched it off.* Did not get to see it get up to pressure but it surely would.* Nice!* Ive tightened up everything so once everything is dry again Ill give it another go and maybe even get a shot out of it* :)
    Cant wait to really compare the two machines.* Ive already seen the difference in build quality.* Im quite convinced the FAEMA would be able to take more of a beating and still be revived.* Its really quite industrial compared to the more refined Giotto.* The Giotto looks quite delicate in comparison.

  34. #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    539

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Good to see that its working now. Yep, the FAEMA is a very solidly built machine.

  35. #35
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,411

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Woohoo, good work!! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

    Cheers

  36. #36
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,006

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Thanks guys. Im descaling atm.
    Pressure picked up to 1.3 bars before the element cut off which I thought was on the high side, but then it fell gradually right back to 0.3 and started cycling between 0.3 to 0.5 bar. But as Im typing the bar reading suddenly jumped to 0.8 bar and now cycling between 0.8 and 1 bar which I think is spot on. Must have been some scale build up in the gauge line somewhere and loosened up. The steam is nuts on this thing!

  37. #37
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,006

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Machine all cleaned up and working. Still descaling but at least the pressure gauge reading now makes sense. I think Ill leave the boiler pressure at 0.8-1 bar given the power of the steam...Ill have a harder time texturing milk I reckon...will be too fast. I checked the water temp in the cup and its 80 degrees in the cup so brew temp is probably around 85 degs or so, maybe a couple of degrees lower than acceptable...but Ill let my taste buds be the judge once I get it ready to make a cup of espresso.






  38. #38
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,411

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Looking good!

    Wouldnt the steam be similar to the Giotto ?

    NIce that yours has a stainless water tank and copper all the way for steam and water. Mine has copper pipes upto the solenoids then a section of silicone tube before it gets to the swivels/wands.

    Cheers

  39. #39
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,006

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    It could be the four hole steam tip that makes iit seem more powerful.

  40. #40
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    47

    Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

    Awesome !

    Cant wait to see how it competes with the giotto

  41. #41
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,006
    Literally heats milk in 5 seconds with the 4 holes...it does have more steam power than the Giotto I think...again could just be perception with the 4 hole but I never had a 4 hole tip for the Giotto. I wonder if I have the patients to re-learn everything. Seems to need a slightly finer grind also than my Giotto. In my opinion if I was steaming for 2 or more peope than this machine is perfect, but steam milk for one it's an overkill. Definitely need the two hole steam tip to cope.

  42. #42
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,411
    One of the issues is the holes in the 4 hole tip are 2mm in diameter, which is absolutely huge. I filled mine in and redrilled with 1.0mm holes, and its made a huge difference to being able to texture milk successfully. Its still very quick but very manageable. I struggles and did not succeed getting decent results with the unmodified tip.

    How is it in regard to cooling flushes?

    Bring on the comparison!!

    Cheers

  43. #43
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,006
    I'll have to find time alone with my machines side by side on a bench and when the wife and 3 yo is out. It won't really be a fair comparison since I've tweaked my Giotto to 9 bar at the brew head and I'm so familiar with the Giotto. On first impression I feel as if the E61 group runs hotter, however the steam and hot water comes out quicker on the Faema. I'll have to measure the amount of water used to flush etc. I'll start with a side by side spec comparison, before all that though. Will try to get that done soon.

  44. #44
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,006
    Ok so here are the preliminary findings. I have to say in terms of the numbers it all makes sense.

    Here are the specs. Unfortunately there are not much information out there on the Faema and I had to fill in the gaps. So if there are any data that someone may know is incorrect please fill free to correct it asap.

    Firstly both machines are HX and tanked. The Giotto E61 Group vs Faema commercial group.

    Tank size the Faema has a larger tank with 3.5L vs 2.9L on the Giotto
    Boiler size the Faema has a larger boiler (stainless steel) with 2.4L vs 1.9L Nickel plated brass on the Giotto
    Heating Element the Faema has a slightly larger Wattage at 1300W vs 1200W on the Giotto
    Weight the Faema weighs in at 30kg dry weight vs 23kg on the Giotto
    Dimensions the Faema is overall larger in height and depth W320xD470xH440 vs Giotto W330xD420xH350 (H385 if include the plastic warmer plate surround)
    Height of the group to drip tray grill Giotto has 15cm clearance vs Faema 13cm.
    Steam Wand the Giotto has anti burn swivel arms on a ball joint vs the Faema which has burn swivel arms on a ball joint
    Hot water the Giotto has anti burn swivel arms on a ball joint vs the Faema which has a tap on ball joint
    Housing the Giotto is all stainless steel AIS304 vs the Faema steel painted metallic silver and a stainless warmer plate module
    Pressure indicators both has manometer boiler only
    Water level Faema has a floating ball indicator vs the Giotto has none
    Boiler refill the Giotto is automatic vs the Faema has a separate manual boiler fill complimented by the water level indicator. I don't think this is a negative though given the larger boiler size. both have safety cut off switches that saves the elements from being fried under low water level circumstances.
    Brewing process the Giotto has a lever arm vs the Faema has a turn knob on/off switch

    I have done a thermal stability test on both and not surprisingly the Faema takes a longer time to reach thermal stability due to the larger boiler size and the overall larger machine mass at around 44 minutes vs Giotto 34 minutes. Now on the Faema's defence the temperature stabilises significantly at around 38minutes. Both I consider ready to use at 30 minutes.
    Brewing temperature after cooling flush are Faema 98.9 degrees vs Giotto 95.7 degrees. Again to the Faema's defence I have tweaked my Giotto using Greg Pullman's pressure gauge to set the OPV to 9 bar. I do find also that the Faema required a much larger cooling flush to reach the brew temp...but again with some tweaking I could reduce this.

    So there's a quick spec. comparison. I will have to do a side by side shot test after tweaking the Faema to get a cooler brew temp...when the ladies are out of the house...just got a "what are you doing?? I'm trying to go to sleep" from the wife (checking brew temp on the Faema)

  45. #45
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,411

    Post

    Thanks for the comparison, keep us informed on your progress. I had a laugh re your wife's comment, sounds familiar!!

    When you get to do the comparison, would be good to keep as many variables constant, ie same brew pressure, basket, ginder etc. That is what I plan to do when I compare mine to the BDB.

    How are you measuring the water temps?

    Cheers

  46. #46
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,006
    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    Thanks for the comparison, keep us informed on your progress. I had a laugh re your wife's comment, sounds familiar!!

    When you get to do the comparison, would be good to keep as many variables constant, ie same brew pressure, basket, ginder etc. That is what I plan to do when I compare mine to the BDB.

    How are you measuring the water temps?

    Cheers
    data logger multimeter. here are the photos. I am measuring the actual temperature at the shower screen. The water temp is as it comes out of the shower screen. using the coffeesnob roasting software to measure temperature stability as well as water as it comes from the shower head.

  47. #47
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Internet
    Posts
    16,772
    Blog Entries
    1
    Nice additional use of the datalogger!

    Something you might want to do is to edit the preferences.txt file, you can set the X and Y axis on the graph to smaller numbers for a better scale.
    Also... hitting [save] will give you an option to save a JPG which makes it easier to share or upload too.

  48. #48
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,006
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Nice additional use of the datalogger!

    Something you might want to do is to edit the preferences.txt file, you can set the X and Y axis on the graph to smaller numbers for a better scale.
    Also... hitting [save] will give you an option to save a JPG which makes it easier to share or upload too.
    Yep, I am very happy with the datalogger. Plenty of other uses other than monitoring roast profile. Just have to think outside of the square. Thanks for the tip on the scale settings Andy. I also should change the time duration setting for the graph when doing thermal stability tests. It was set at 30 minutes and ofcourse both took more than 30 minutes to get to a fully stable temperature.

  49. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    539
    Quote Originally Posted by saoye View Post
    Unfortunately there are not much information out there on the Faema and I had to fill in the gaps.
    There's HEAPS of info on it! The FAEMA is just a rebadged La Cimbali Junior - you'll find lots of info on the La Cimbali. For example, check out the Home Barista review of the La Cimbali - their review is on the rotary pumped, volumetric version though. http://www.home-barista.com/junior-buyers-guide.html

  50. #50
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    539
    Quote Originally Posted by saoye View Post
    data logger multimeter. here are the photos. I am measuring the actual temperature at the shower screen. The water temp is as it comes out of the shower screen. using the coffeesnob roasting software to measure temperature stability as well as water as it comes from the shower head.
    It's pointless measuring the temp that way. During actual brewing, the water is exiting much, much slower, so therefore is in contact with the huge brass brewhead for a much longer time. Therefore in actual brewing the temp will be much closer to the grouphead temp than it will be measured that way.



Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Faema E98 Compact A!
    By b9drinker in forum Brewing Equipment - Pointy End ($1500-$3000)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 30th June 2013, 07:04 AM
  2. Faema E98 compact A2 help anyone?
    By malintous1 in forum Brewing Equipment - Extreme Machines ($3000+)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11th February 2010, 10:59 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •