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Thread: Diadema Junior Eletronic vs. Expobar Office FullyAuto vs. Domobar Super HX electronic

  1. #1
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    Diadema Junior Eletronic vs. Expobar Office FullyAuto vs. Domobar Super HX electronic

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Sorry, had to abbreviate the names slightly to make them fit in the title...

    All look to be E61 base. All have buttons to extract (no lever...).

    Varying boiler sizes (Am assuming bigger = more steam capability but at higher warmup timeframe and costs?).

    No ideas of the pros/cons of the electronic parts.

    What are the other differentiators here? I like the prefer of the Diadema and Domobar but all would fit into the kitchen.

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    Declaring commercial interest at the onset:

    Std of build and finish, best on the Diadema;
    Biggest boiler, on the Domobar.

    Most expensive.....probably the Domobar?
    Cheapest.....probably the Expobar?

    FWIW the Diadema is an excellent machine, with the manufacturer always evaluating and improving over time with R & D. Components are best available at the current time for a machine this size, eg Gicar control box, touch pad and water turbine, Campini SSR / pressurestat, probably an ULka pump but that doesnt matter so much as they all work long term, and seldom fail. Probably the best drip tray in its class, and an anodised corrosion proofed steel chassis not just painted.

    All will make good coffee and perform properly, so that isnt really a criteria for selection.......

    Suggest not to let others cloud your judgement wrt electronic/ touch pad operation (do a search and you will find people say they are "bad" because they are "automatic". The only thing the electronics do in these machines is give you an automatic cup level cut out.......if you wish to use it. If you dont, you simply use it as you would any other machine, by first initiating the flow through the group by pressing a button, and then pressing the same or any other button to STOP the flow whenever you like. ie you can override the auto cut off function for each and every coffee if you wish (but then you may as well just buy a semi auto instead and save some money).

    The electronics in modern machines are quite reliable and seldom fail (especially in low volume use) if reliability is a factor you wish to consider. It will be just as easy or even easier for a toggle or rocker switch to fail on a non electronic / volumetric machine, as a touch pad or control board on a volumetric, and even lever machines have control boards internally.

    What I am saying is, if you want a volumetric / electronic touch pad machine, there really is no reason why you shouldnt have one if that is what you want.

    Most of our volumetric / electronic Diadema Junior machine sales, go to small offices where the through put will be more than in home use.

    Hope that helps.
    Last edited by Fresh_Coffee; 29th August 2012 at 01:30 PM.

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    How big a factor is the Domobar boiler?

    I read threads of much smaller boilers being sufficient for small family gatherings but when I saw a video of it's use on you-tube it had a definite 'wow' factor in terms of speed and would certainly help me when the hoards arrive on the Saturday morning when I have to produce anything up to 10 drinks in a sitting (even the kids pester me for hot chocolate...)

    Would I also be right in saying that the bigger boiler would affect brew temperature stability or is this principally moot with the HX mechanism?

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    There are no "factors" with the Diadema boiler ! Smaller boilers (1.3 litres in this case) recover more quickly than larger boilers, for a similar sized element. While you are grinding coffee for the next brews, the boiler recovers / has recovered.

    Yes there is a different "feel" to machines with smaller boilers wrt those with bigger boilers, its all relative and you adjust yoiurself to the equipment at hand.

    I previously had one of our Diadema Junior EXTRA machines at home with a 2 litre boiler and was quite accustomed to it.

    I replaced it with a Splendor (internally the same as the 1.3 litre Junior). At first it felt like quite a different machine to use, but over the course of a couple of days I forgot all about that. I an now fully familiar with using the 1.3 litre machine and used it just before sitting down to write this.

    The machines are *well set up* and dont have any "problems" with temperature stability. That depends on the individual importer of whatever brand and model.

    hope that helps.

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    Senior Member benandfaith's Avatar
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    I own the Diadema (in Junior Semi-auto guise). I have used the VBM (in Domobar Super guise) - in fact pulled over 200 shots with it at Aromafest one year when helping out at Di Bartoli store. No experience whatsoever with the Expobar.

    Domobar - it'll take whatever you throw at it.
    Diadema - I have made up to 12 milk coffees in a row and it didn't skip a beat. In fact, the only limiting factor was me. I can only assume that if I were to keep going at the pace I make coffee (I'm no souch, but I'm not a pro barista pumping it out either) it will certainly keep up. I've read that if you were to keep pumping water out (say to make long blacks or tea) through the tap, that would make the Diadema struggle. The VBM with boiler twice the size probably wouldn't.

    Hope this helps!

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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benandfaith View Post
    if you were to keep pumping water out (say to make long blacks or tea) through the tap, that would make the Diadema struggle. The VBM with boiler twice the size probably wouldn't.
    Wouldn't that be an issue with any prosumer machine with a boiler?: run some hot water through the tap and, when the pump kicks in, it introduces cold water into the boiler and lowers the temperature (and boiler pressure). The more you take out via the tap, the longer the recovery time.

    I know it's like that for my Giotto PP: if I make a long black, I pour the hot water first and it has usually recovered by the time I have ground, dosed and tamped. If I fill 2 cups to make 2 long blacks, it takes a bit longer to recover.

    My machine only allows me to steam a maximum of enough milk for 2 cups at a time . Would the bigger boiler of the VBM allow you to steam a bigger quantity of milk? Logic says yes but I'm not certain. It may be a deal breaking point for AG: steam enough milk for 3 cups at a time rather than 2.

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    Yes that could be so but the machines are constantly recovering (whether they be 1.3 litre or bigger).

    You may steam milk for 3 cups, but you are only grinding enough coffee for 2 at a time then dosing ansd tamping and the machines recover in the interim. Or....even if you grind enough for say 4 coffees at a time, you still have to stop the brew, empty the group handle, refill the filter /dose/tamp, lock in and go again. Then you pour the milk......Then you may wish to do enough milk for 4 coffees....you can keep increasing the theoretical "demand".....until you can only justify purchasing a 4 litre commercial with water connection......but this is home use, you dont have to be in that much of a hurry, and the operator will adjust himself to whatever machine he buys ! I see these kinds of discussions all the time in my showroom on theoretical future "high volume home useage", that in reality will mostly never apply......and it becomes just another one of those "things" people want to tick off the list in the beginning when deciding what to buy. That's the coffee equipment psychologist coming out in me !

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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Yes that could be so but the machines are constantly recovering (whether they be 1.3 litre or bigger)....theoretical future "high volume home useage", that in reality will mostly never apply.
    Yes, that makes sense. Texturing more than 2 cups worth of milk at a time only makes sense in commercial situations with 2 or groups.

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    Senior Member benandfaith's Avatar
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    I agree with the 'theoretical' limit which I don't think has any real expression in a home use situation.

    In my workflow, I only ever steam enough for 2 milk coffees which I do as I am 'pulling' the two shots. Shots usually finish before the steaming finishes (usually only about 10-15 sec difference). I pour the milk for both coffees, taking great care to produce awesome art (and almost invariably failing!). Machine is definitely ready to go before I am. And this is before I bang bang the PF and thwack in the grinds and distribute and tamp and lock and load...

    So yeah, my Diadema rocks! I love it and I'll never upgrade (Famous last words...)! I'd be happy to own the VBM too, but the Diadema was a fair bit cheaper with all of the benefits Attilio (Fresh_Coffee) mentioned in his first reply. And I also like the looks!

  10. #10
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benandfaith View Post
    So yeah, my Diadema rocks! I love it and I'll never upgrade (Famous last words...)! I'd be happy to own the VBM too, but the Diadema was a fair bit cheaper with all of the benefits Attilio (Fresh_Coffee) mentioned in his first reply. And I also like the looks!
    I love my Diadema too, the fantastic support from Attilio of CosmoreX Coffee and Chris of Talk Coffee. A truly beautifully made machine that does everything you could ask of it (and more) but with a very reasonable footprint which will allow them to fit almost anywhere.

    Mal.

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    What I'm hearing seems to be any will do the job I have to hand.

    Seems to me then that it then comes down to personal look/feel preferences and whilst I have scrutineered the various PDF that I'll have to see some up front and personal at some point prior to deciding.

    I am at this stage inclined to be biased towards the Domobar (I prefer the looks on paper and for probably the wrong reasons the bigger boiler is appealing...).

    Thanks for your feedback, will keep you posted (will need to sell my existing machine and prey for a decent bonus )



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