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Thread: 4 hole tip expobar minore

  1. #1
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    4 hole tip expobar minore

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Has anyone tried a 4 hole tip on the minore? *I assume the steam boiler can keep up.

    Can you get them here or do you need to import it?

    I used a Synesso a while ago and the performance of the steam wand on that has left me wanting a bit better performance out of mine.

    Clint

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    Re: 4 hole tip expobar minore

    Suggestion:

    Remove the tip, take it to a tool specialist eg Specialty Fasteners. Ask them to sell you a drill bit the same size as the existing holes.

    Drill the extra 2 holes into your tip.

    Test the outcome on your machine.

    If the steam dies in a very short time and doesnt recover then the volume of steam your "new" tip is flowing is more than the capacity of the machine to recover.

    In that case fill the extra holes with solder taking the tip back to its original design.

    Personally, I wouldnt do this. I dont think the machine has the capacity for you to double the steam flow from the tip but, youll never know if you dont try and.....I could be wrong.

    You cant compare the steam capacity of your Minore to any full size commercial machine of any brand, model or type - the steam tip needs to be properly matched to the capacity of your machine.

    Its likely the only way you might be able to go from 2 to 4 holes in your tip and not lose capacity to recover is if for example, you halve the size of the holes therefore still only flowing the same amount of steam from the 4, as from the original 2. If the result from this change to the tip works better than the original, it would be due to the different configuration of flow, but........it might not work any better than the original. *

    Goodluck in your R & D.

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    Re: 4 hole tip expobar minore

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon link=1173922713/0#1 date=1173943361
    In that case fill the extra holes with solder taking the tip back to its original configuration, and there you go!
    Goodluck in your R & D.
    Just remember, if using solder near food preparation equipment (including plumbing to coffee machines) use lead free soft solder- or cadmium free silver solder (available from plumbing suppliers and large hardware stores).

    Both are designed to be used on potable water supplies.

  4. #4
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: 4 hole tip expobar minore

    Beat me to it, JavaB. We dont need more lead in our bodies.

    But rather experiment by drilling more holes which may then have to be plugged, surely theres a 4-hole tip which might fit.

    --Robusto

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    Re: 4 hole tip expobar minore

    i had thought of drilling it out but had a couple of concerns.

    firstly if it didnt work then i would need to buy a new tip as i wasnt that keen on soldering the tip.

    secondly i wasnt sure how acurate i need to be in terms of hole alingment. it will be a little difficult to drill acurately even on a drill press due to its size. I also wasnt sure whateffect if any the angle and placement of hte holes would have on steaming.

    recovery is not too much of an issue though as i rarely heat more than 2 600ml jugs in one sitting. I would have thought that if it can handle multiple jugs through 2 holes it could do it through 4 as the required steam to heat a set quantity of milk should be roughly the same.

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    Re: 4 hole tip expobar minore

    Clinto,

    Its not a question of the total heat (read steam volume) but how fast that is removed from the boiler, and therefore how fast the elements can restore the pressure.... If you dont have enough (short term) recovery the steam will start out strong and then the pressure will start to drop.... leaving you with just a trickle of low pressure steam as the element tries to catch up......

    My 4 hole causes the pressure to fall so quickly that the heater cuts in within say 10 seconds...... and I have 4KW of heater to restore the pressure (and a 17L boiler producing the steam as well).

  7. #7
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    Re: 4 hole tip expobar minore

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaB link=1173922713/0#5 date=1173945447
    Clinto,

    Its not a question of the total heat (read steam volume) but how fast that is removed from the boiler, and therefore how fast the elements can restore the pressure.... If you dont have enough (short term) recovery the steam will start out strong and then the pressure will start to drop.... leaving you with just a trickle of low pressure steam as the element tries to catch up......

    My 4 hole causes the pressure to fall so quickly that the heater cuts in within say 10 seconds...... and I have 4KW of heater to restore the pressure (and a 17L boiler producing the steam as well).
    Why not replace the entire wand with a cool touch wand? The 2-hole giotto tip is an all time fave of mine....

    Alternately, Id suggest that you have the tip brazed rather than soldering it and then re-plated (if required)... I had this done to a tip I didnt like on a machine last week. We brazed all holes and drilled 2 x 1.4mm holes ported at 30 deg. from the vertical...the outcome was milk texture nirvana.

    As for the 4-hole concept, Id reckon the expobar will cope comfortably. Ultimately recovery relates to element v boiler size. Some of the early Makins had 4 and there were no issues except for the fact that you couldnt texture well with them! A wise friend once told me that if you go faster, the outcome may not neccessarily be better! *;) ;D

    Chris

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    Re: 4 hole tip expobar minore

    ok lets cut to the chase.

    If you double the flow you may be letting out more steam than the electric element can recover. Doesnt matter how small your volume of milk is, blasting it with a few seconds of really aggressive steam then nothing, is not going to give you much microfoam, froth or bubble. The machine will just run our of steam real quick.

    No one in here can give you the specific information you are seeking, so you either follow the advice above and do the R & D yourself, *or you take the tip to an espresso machine repairer / service agent and ask them if they have a 4 hole tip to suit. You cant do this over the phone, they have to see your tip to see if they have a direct replacement in thread size, male or female fit.

    Ill wager if you do find one, the holes will be gigantic as they are for full size commercials not home size machines.

    Take it home, try, and in the likely event it does not work (because it flows double the volume and kills the machine), you replace it with the original and put the 10 to 20 real dollars wasted on the tip down to experience, not to mention the hidden cost in wasted time and gasoline going from repair agent to repair agent looking for a non standard tip that will fit the steam pipe but may not do the job on your model machine.

    Grafting non standard paraphenalia such as complete steam pipes from other brand & model machines is a service providers nightmare.

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    Re: 4 hole tip expobar minore

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon link=1173922713/0#7 date=1173947833
    ,snip>
    Grafting non standard paraphenalia such as complete steam pipes from other brand & model machines is a service providers nightmare.
    The Minore now ships with cool touch Giotto style wands and has dome so for some time ;)

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    Re: 4 hole tip expobar minore

    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1173922713/0#6 date=1173947745
    We brazed all holes and drilled 2 x 1.4mm holes ported at 30 deg. from the vertical...the outcome was milk texture nirvana.

    As for the 4-hole concept, Id reckon the expobar will cope comfortably. Ultimately recovery relates to element v boiler size. Some of the early Makins had 4 and there were no issues except for the fact that you couldnt texture well with them! A wise friend once told me that if you go faster, the outcome may not neccessarily be better! ;) ;D

    Chris
    Yep, spot on Chris....

    For relatively small volumes my gigantic "puffin billy" does the most amazing texturing with the two hole CoffeeParts tip drilled out to 1.4 mm...... as standard it is wayyyyyyyy to slow - but drilled out fantastic .....

    and the 4 hole tip textures in a 600ml jug so fast its almost impossible to get great texture.... but it really comes into its own with a 1.5L jug..... which is what they are designed for ;)

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    Re: 4 hole tip expobar minore

    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1173922713/0#8 date=1173948283
    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon link=1173922713/0#7 date=1173947833
    ,snip>
    Grafting non standard paraphenalia such as complete steam pipes from other brand & model machines is a service providers nightmare.
    The Minore now ships with cool touch Giotto style wands and has dome so for some time ;)

    But is it the same valve & pipe and therefore is it a straight swap over?

    If not, refer to "service providers nightmare" above.

    If it is a straight swap, great, give it a go and see how the two different tips perform relative to eachother.

    If there is an appreciable difference, great let us know.

    -

    JavaB, Im not with you ("spot on Chris..."). I see from your list of equipment that your machine does not compare to the Minore...

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    Re: 4 hole tip expobar minore

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon link=1173922713/0#10 date=1173948585
    JavaB, Im not with you ("spot on Chris..."). I see from your list of equipment that your machine does not compare to the Minore...
    Nope .... has a TAD more capacity......

    But even with that a 4 hole "commercial" tip is just too much for a 600ml jug to get good textured milk.....

    Id suggest a large two hole would do quite well for Clintos machine and is less likely to drop the boiler pressure too much..... and it does do a great job with a 600 ml jug on mine!

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    Re: 4 hole tip expobar minore

    Im a novice to commercial HX equipment, but Im really finding the 4-tip wand difficult. Too much steam too soon.

    The milk hits 60 before I can manage to hold the jug right, let alone stretch. Then, the slightest of jug movements, accidental or otherwise, and big streams of steam blast bubbles on the surface.

    Id stick with fewer holes and allow more time to stretch and heat properly.

    --Robusto

  14. #14
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    Re: 4 hole tip expobar minore

    Curmudgeon I went to Di Bartoli to have a look at the new style tips on the Minore as Id heard they texture well easier.
    Ive decided for the moment that Ill persevere with what I have rather than spend $40 on a replacement wand.

    However, for everyones info the basic difference in the two tips is the angle of the holes.

    I just had a thought after reading some of the above posts.
    Not that Id do it every time, but as an experiment in slowing down my steaming (the Expobar has some grunt) Im going to try purge a lot of steam before heating my next jug of milk and see if I can slow it down while its recovering from the purge.


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    Re: 4 hole tip expobar minore

    Just thought Id let the OP know that a compatible 4 hole tip is available from Bezzera. The Bezzera Ellise comes with a stainless steel steaming wand and a tip about the same size and shape as the Giottos but with 4 holes. Its a male thread, rather than the more common M10 female thread.

    Ive just gone and measured the holes using a digital vernier caliper and also a 1.5 mm drill bit; there are four 1.4 mm holes.

    Barazi should be able to get these tips in for you.

    Dont ask me why I have this steam wand kicking about.... I just do.

    Cheers,

    Mark.

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    Re: 4 hole tip expobar minore

    thanks for the replies. My tip is a female one though and it is not the cool touch wand.

    I might try enlarging the two hole tip and see what that does for performance. I was using a 600ml jug with a 4 hole tip on the synesso and it didnt seem to impair milk texturing. it all happens pretty quick so doesnt leave much room for error, but milk was comparable to the two hole on my expobar, just alot quicker.

    just have to work on my late art. I keep planning to roast a heap of beans and buy 6-10 litres of milk and just pump them out to practice. at the moment I dont make that many coffees over a week. morning coffees go into a thermos cup for the trip to work so it is only the ones i make on the weekend where i get a chance to practice. but I have enrolled for the advanced latte art course at Epic in a couple of weeks.

    My wife bought me for my birthday the intro coffee course at Epic which I did a few weeks ago. It was really designed for people new to espresso machines and had a slant towards the sunbeam (as they are the sunbeam trainer for perth) but I still got a bit out of it. I always find it good to speak and learn from others. I had never had any lessons from anyone previously, just self taught from what I had read off the net. So it was definitely good to see up close how other did things. I also got some good tips for latte art which has improved alot since.


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    Re: 4 hole tip expobar minore

    If you have the M10 female tip, then there are no end of commercial tips available. Check Coffeeparts for a range of commercial tips. There are a few tips in the Faema section as well as a generic 4 hole tip. Also Ive been using Bezzeras standard 4 hole tip in my BZ35 (2l boiler) and its a demon for microfoam in an instant (about sec). Bezzera also have a 3 hole tip if the 4 hole one is too fast. So theres plenty of choice in the M10 fermale tip department.

    Cheers,

    Mark.

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    Re: 4 hole tip expobar minore

    I have managed to get a 4 hole tip for the expobar. Turns out I had 3 of them. The steam wand from a cimbali m31 fits the expobar (sort of). By sort of it does fit but the spring that fits up inside the thread and presses on the ball of the swivel part of the steam arm is too short so the wand wont stay in place so makes it a little difficult to position and hyave it remain there as it isnt a cool touch wand. So i dont think it is the solution I was after but should suffice for testing purposes anyway.

    I have only heated two lots of 600ml milk not quite back to back but within a few minutes of each other. Expobar keeps up fine in the steam department and I think would easily do two 600ml lots of milk back to back. I havent timed it but it does heat up alot quicker than the two hole expobar wand. texturing was ok as well, although a little difficult given the wand wouldnt stay in place. THe cimbali tip is 4 hole, one hole in the middle of the tip and 3 on the sides. The holes are a little smaller than those on the expobar though so I doubt it is double the volume of steam that would be comming out.

    I will do some futher testing in a week or so when I get some time. So I will post a more detailed review of my experience with it then along with some pics.



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