Results 1 to 30 of 30

Thread: Which machine should I buy?

  1. #1
    Member jazzy_boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    61

    Which machine should I buy?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi Guys and Girls

    Interested in your thoughts on a new machine
    My current setup = Silvia, Rocky Doserless, GeneCafe roaster

    Ive decided its time for a new machine and the machines Im considering are:
    • Giotto Premium
    • Expobar Minore
    • Expobar eb61 Lever


    Which one would you go for and why?
    Are there any other machines that should be in the mix?

    Im looking for a machine that can grow with me - rather than having to upgrade each time I learn more.

  2. #2
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by jazzy_boy link=1176940302/0#0 date=1176940302
    Hi Guys and Girls

    Interested in your thoughts on a new machine
    My current setup = *Silvia, Rocky Doserless, GeneCafe roaster

    Ive decided its time for a new machine and the machines Im considering are:
    • Giotto Premium
    • Expobar Minore
    • Expobar eb61 Lever


    Which one would you go for and why?
    Are there any other machines that should be in the mix?

    Im looking for a machine that can grow with me - rather than having to upgrade each time I learn more. *
    Hi JB,

    We sell all of the machines you have mentioned. Im happy to give you a run through of them- warts and all...

    Perhaps you might give me a buzz?

    Chris

  3. #3
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    929

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    Hi Jazzy Boy,

    If you are in Sydney, why not dropping by our Coffee Centre in Bondi Junction and see all those machines in action? you can play with all of them as well as with other traditional group head models, thus taking an much better decision from first hand experience...you may decide that a traditinal group head is the way to go after trying it out...

    ECM, Isomac Mondiale and the entire Bezzera range are in stock, awaiting our new Minore 2 shipment...

    You can PM us to set a time speciallly for you if preferred...

    Ofra

  4. #4
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    jazzy_boy I have the Expobar Leva and am happy with it.
    Its been 9 months now and I still think Ill never need to upgrade.
    The Minores electronics didnt interest me but everyone has different requirements and its features may suit you.
    I have no experience with the Giotto but it does look good.

    (Type Giotto Premium into Google Images and you get Loveys avatar first. ;D ) *

    Chris did me a great deal on my Leva and is very good at working out what you want / need.

    Di Bartoli is also a good option. Ive enjoyed popping in for a coffee with Renzo and Ofra and theyll also look after you.

    Good luck with whichever one you decide on.

  5. #5
    Member jazzy_boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    61

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    any Giotto owners have some thoughts?

  6. #6
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    4,512

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    Hi jazzy_boy

    Ive had my giotto premium for a few months now and cant imagine ever needing to upgrade. I really think the machine is very difficult to criticise either regarding performance or on appearance.

    With respect to the other machines youve listed (and Ive only seen the Minore close up) the giotto has a better finish - soft, rounding of corners is an example of the manufacturers attention to detail. I believe they are as fussy with the good bits that are hidden.

    If you live in Sydney, you definitely should go and visit Renzo and Ofra at DiBartolis as mentioned above. Try the machines side-by-side and ultimately, it will some down to personal preference. As a consumer I would also strongly recommend that you purchase from one of the sponsors here - while I was able to find a slightly cheaper price elsewhere, the after sales service Ive had from all the sponsors here (and Ive needed it) has been nothing less than brilliiant.

    ps. I dont get paid for comment...but if anyone gets the urge to send me a bag of beans, well... ;D

  7. #7
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by luca link=1176940302/0#6 date=1176988361
    It has always been tough to get the information necessary to buy a new machine. *I think that you will struggle to find people with anything negative to say about their machines ... so how do you compare them?

    Cheers,

    Luca
    I strongly disagree, Luca.

    I have negative things to say about each machine. We all know that the perfect machine is yet to be made- so its a matter of choosing the set of negatives which best suit....

    Those who have purchased from us should be happy to confirm that they had a pretty comprehensive understanding of pros and cons before they purchased and made their decision accordingly....

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,334

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    where did lucas post go....*oohhh ahhhh* scary! I had a laugh

  9. #9
    Flo
    Flo is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    330

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by jazzy_boy link=1176940302/0#4 date=1176977037
    any Giotto owners have some thoughts?
    I have a Giotto. I love it. It looks great and makes great coffee. But the driptray is about 2 litres too small! *:( I would also like a brew pressure gauge..but thats just me. Oh a rotary pump would be nice too! Hmm...starting to sound a lot like a Veneziano S1.. ;D

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,334

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    Get the Izzo Alex then

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    299

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1176940302/0#6 date=1176988652
    Quote Originally Posted by luca link=1176940302/0#6 date=1176988361
    It has always been tough to get the information necessary to buy a new machine. *I think that you will struggle to find people with anything negative to say about their machines ... so how do you compare them?

    Cheers,

    Luca
    I strongly disagree, Luca.

    I have negative things to say about each machine. We all know that the perfect machine is yet to be made- so its a matter of choosing the set of negatives which best suit....

    Those who have purchased from us should be happy to confirm that they had a pretty comprehensive understanding of pros and cons before they purchased and made their decision accordingly....
    Negatives for the Minore

    Lack of a decent cup rail. Aftermarket handles are a little crappy. I have plans to get one fabricated at work, but just havent gotten to it yet.

    fitment of the drip tray and the drip tray cover isnt the best, still looks ok but could be better. does cause it to rattle occassionally but i suspect with a rotary pump you wouldnt get that.

    noisy vibe pump, but that is vibe pumps for you I suspect

    other than that i am more than happy with it.

    if I was to buy now I would consider the plumbed rotary pump option. (not the waste though, as the drip tray is probably big enough)

  12. #12
    Senior Member fatboy_1999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    2,124

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    Jazzy_boy,

    I moved from a Silvia to a Minore II about 5 months ago. The Minore II has a few changes from the predecessor (Minore I).

    Updated to include a cup rail. I find it quite decent.

    Cool touch wand. I love it, but fear it has ruined me for any machine without one. I also find the 2 hole tip works very well for steaming.

    The drip tray cover was a little off square when I got it (found a few owners on the web who have noticed this). I gently persuaded it back into its original shape and it now fits wonderfully. I think they might warp a little in the box.

    The drip tray itself, I find fits fine and holds a large amount.

    Noisy vibe pump - yep.

    The only negative for me is lack of an external indicator of water level. Its not a big deal if you get into a routine of topping up your reservior though.

    On the whole, I really love my machine and Im happy I went with this model.
    Heres a pic of mine:


    PS. Another happy Talk Coffee customer.




  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    160

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    I have had my Minore II for a month now - and I love it.

    For me - temperature stability was important and temperature indication - so the Minore II it was.

    The only negative for me, is the vibration when the pump is running, but its not a big deal.

    This has changed our coffee drinking habits - with Silvia - coffee was a treat - it always seemed to take me about an hour to set up, make coffee and clean up. I never got to enjoy my coffee with my partner.

    Now the machine is always on, when we want a coffee I just get up and do it - minimal time/effort to clean up - I am not sure what is so different now ... but it certainly isnt the chore that it was. Now I am always looking for an excuse to make a coffee for someone.


  14. #14
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    Clinto ask 2mcm if he has any more cup rails.
    I got some from him for my Leva.
    They are great. No more having to take cups off the fill the reservoir.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    299

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1176940302/0#13 date=1177055797
    Clinto ask 2mcm if he has any more cup rails.
    I got some from him for my Leva.
    They are great. No more having to take cups off the fill the reservoir.

    thanks yeh he does. but I wanted a full rail that circles the top rather than the two handles. I just have to get around to taking the cover to guy at an engineering/fabrication company that is part of the group I work for, to make one up for me.

    Yes the lack of indication for water level is a bit of a pain. I often turn the machine on and come back 1/2 hour later to find the display off and the machine cold. or you are half way through pulling a shot and the pump and display shuts off.

    but I guess you can always come up with a wish list of things. overall I am more than happy with the minore I.


  16. #16
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    4,512

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    Forgot...probably the only thing I consider a negative re the giotto is that I think the pump is noisy - then again, its a muscle machine..I had a laugh

  17. #17
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1176940302/15#15 date=1177058672
    Forgot...probably the only thing I consider a negative re the giotto is that I think the pump is noisy - then again, its a muscle machine..I had a laugh
    Good thing you purchased a Giotto, Dennis...You wanna hear some of the Minores in comparison....

  18. #18
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    The Leva doesnt seem too loud.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,946

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes link=1176940302/0#7 date=1176989354
    where did lucas post go....*oohhh ahhhh* scary! I had a laugh
    I had a laugh; I actually deleted it myself because it got the wrong message across. Chris must have been posting his reply as I deleted it. Seeing as it is now enshrined in the internet, I have no choice but to explain what I mean. I think that the best way to introduce what I wanted to get across is by revisiting my reply to someones assertion that dual boilers are the best:

    "Dual boiler," when used in the exceptionally broad manner above, is just another buzz word. Were starting to see more and more dual boiler machines around ... does anyone seriously think that the kitchenaid machine would be any good? Why not buy two gaggias and put them side-by-side? Dual boiler, but in two different machines. Will either of these perform anywhere near as well as a synesso or a hotrodded marzocco? No. Ive only used a few domestic dual-boiler machines. Some were OK, I thought that one of them delivered far less clarity of flavour than a HX that I had used not too long ago. I havent used any that blew me away, but, like I said, I havent used very many at all. All that I want to point out is that its not necessarily true to say DB>HX.

    Similarly, all HXs are not created equal. There are a myriad of different factors at play; thermosyphon restrictors, flow restrictors, hx inlet length, boiler size, basket, water distribution ... Unfortunately, I think that its more or less impossible to judge how these things perform just from a statistics page on the internet alone, which will not mention most of these factors.
    The original discussion is here.

    What I wanted to say is that there are few people who get an opportunity to try out multiple "prosumer" class machines that look similar on paper. This gives them little opportunity to get a feel for what the different features that arent listed on the spec sheets actually do. I dont think that I have ever really seen a discussion of negatives of machines that revolves around whats in the cup. I think that a big part of this is because we all have individual preferences and people tend to get used to what their machine produces. Its actually quite a funny exercise to try to relate peoples taste preferences back to their machines. But I deleted my post because this would just open up another "Sunbeam vs Silvia" type discussion, which I have no interest in participating in.

    Suffice to say that Im glad that there are people like Chris around who can offer advice from experience.

    Cheers,

    Luca

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,176

    Re: Which machine should I buy?


    I agree. Dual boiler is a buzzword that doesnt equal La Marzocco or Synesso. These machines are engineered to perform far beyond the simple fact that they have dual boilers. The saturated group is one factor that is above and beyond most machines (and the fact that the saturated group is at the TOP of the boiler - this makes a huge difference).

    Cheers,

    Mark.

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    756

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1176940302/15#16 date=1177071605
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1176940302/15#15 date=1177058672
    Forgot...probably the only thing I consider a negative re the giotto is that I think the pump is noisy - then again, its a muscle machine..I had a laugh
    Good thing you purchased a Giotto, Dennis...You wanna hear some of the Minores in comparison....

    Ive come to love the pump noise of my Minore :-*

    Its rather comforting to hear it pumping away [smiley=evil.gif]


    Belinda

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    390

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    I have had my giotto premium for 3 years now and has never seen a service shop and has performed flawlessly from day 1 (except for 1 minor misshap which was my fault and easily fixed by myself also)
    I havent tried the others so cant comment on them.

  23. #23
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    16

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    Hi
    Some of my learings for what its worth..
    I went with the Minore II, It was a close decision for me between the Giotto premiums beauty and quality of finish and the technical (and learn to love aesthetics) attribues of the Minore.
    However I made a mistake!!!!! The Minore is fantastic however I purchased on price (as I did my own research and purchased new over the internet) and forgot about the old face to face customer service... DooH!

    When a small hose blew on the Minore II after a couple of shots, I tried fixing myself but the flared connection failed to hold..
    After many (many) attempts to contact someone I finally got onto the Expobar team via sales@expobar.com.au and a tech sent me a new "improved fitting" (again after many follow ups with them too)

    My lesson? Product support should be a significant consideration... I am utterly impressed with the Minore II but the service I recieved at online retail and distributor level was (and I must state in this instance and a few other enquiries Ive had with them) less than impressive. (I am still seeking product information from them for their range after my 4th attempt)

    Go through one of their distributor /retailers........ They are worth the margin they make

    ps. No I dont retail any equipment or know anyone who does


  24. #24
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    Thats why we keep recommending the site sponsors.

  25. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    2,165

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    Absolutely. Its so easy to buy on price alone, which is great until something goes wrong. Then its like, "Oh Chris, remember me, the guy who saves 5 bucks by not buying from you? Err, like to help me out of my mess MATE ole buddy ole pal?". Support the system that supports you. :)

    Price doesnt equal perfection. Even Daimlers have problems.

  26. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,498

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    Too true Greg,

    No one considers the cost of support when they buy items....(not just coffee machines).... looking for the cheapest price...

    But when things go pear shaped :(.... the cost of that support is priceless!! :-[

    It costs quite a bit of time (read dollars) to provide quality support and that is the first thing the discount sellers dispense with.... and if you are lucky and you dont have any problems you might be OK.... but for most- you get what you pay for - and you didnt pay for support. :-/

    The site sponsors (and other responsible and professional retailers) factor in the cost of support into their price..... and the little extra you pay is very cheap insurance against a manufacturing (or end user ;)) problem.

  27. #27
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    16

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    Easy fellas I thought I was agreeing with you and have only just joined the CS forum so was unaware of your "sponsors"

    Im not rich and was lucky enough to have worked as a hospitality tech so in my case...The differnce of well over $300+ on a $2k machine made it more compelling.. I tried a local retailer first but wasnt convinced with the service.

    My other point being the lack of follow up at "product support level" by the company who brought the machines in was a different experince than I had anticipated......

    Motto.... Always buy for "value" and never on "price" alone!

    On a different note when I purchased a pullman tamper (yeh yeh I know a sponsor :) ) and it went missing in the post for 11 days, Greg went out of his way to resolve the problem and customer service (read genuine care) was exceptional.

    Not really relevent here but the service was outstanding and worth mentioning.

  28. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    2,165

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    Sorite Micro, not having a go at you particularly at all. I just know personally its easy for the dollar figure to loom large (especially when putting the case to the Minister of Domestic Finances!), but its people like us who are often on the receiving end of things gone wrong, so as much as possible we try to get the message out there.

    Glad to know you were happy with the service you received by the way!

    Greg

  29. #29
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    53

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1176940302/0#3 date=1176948183
    jazzy_boy I have the Expobar Leva and am happy with it.
    Its been 9 months now and I still think Ill never need to upgrade.
    The Minores electronics didnt interest me but everyone has different requirements and its features may suit you.
    I have no experience with the Giotto but it does look good.

    (Type Giotto Premium into Google Images and you get Loveys avatar first. ;D )

    Chris did me a great deal on my Leva and is very good at working out what you want / need.

    Di Bartoli is also a good option. Ive enjoyed popping in for a coffee with Renzo and Ofra and theyll also look after you.

    Good luck with whichever one you decide on.
    Happy to hear it is still going strong. I remember when you pmd me asking for details. I will have to say again that value for money you cant go past the expobar leva. A year and a half later and I still love mine.

  30. #30
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496

    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    Yep.
    Id only had it 2 weeks when I asked how yours had been going.



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •