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Thread: Nuova Simonelli Musica pump issue?

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    Nuova Simonelli Musica pump issue?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    My new Musica is acting strange. When pulling shots, no matter the grind fineness and bean age, the initial pull, before the espresso starts flowing, is taking about 15 sec. and i can not bring this time down, what so ever. The pump sound like there is no resistens in the PF and not building up pressure before long in the extraction.
    Is this a defect pump or the OPV thats acting out?

    Link of a pull, showing the issue.
    https://youtu.be/Z5PIfqq24FY

    Best regards, Christopher.

  2. #2
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    What's your rate of flow through the group with no PF in place?

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    Thank you for the fast reply.
    The flow of water is fast and steady, after the flush.
    I have yet to measure it, but it seems normal.

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    The flowrate could be a bit slow actually, compared to what i used to be before i had this issue.

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StopherB View Post
    The flowrate could be a bit slow actually, compared to what i used to be before i had this issue.
    Run water through the group into something for 30 seconds then tip it into a measuring cup (or run it straight into a measuring cup). Knowing the flow rate in millilitres/minute won't necessarily solve the problem but it could help narrow things down a bit. If the flow is restricted then there could be a blockage somewhere (usually in the 3-way solenoid), or there could be a faulty part (usually the 3-way or OPV). Have you done a back flush or descale recently? Do you only use filtered water?

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    Hello Christopher. Welcome to CoffeeSnobs.

    It looks like low pressure pre infusion to me. Look in your instruction book to see how to adjust pre infusion if you want to. How does your coffee taste? Thats the main test.

    Barry

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    I backflush daily. It's only 5 weeks old, and I use filtered water, so I don't think scale is the issue.

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    Thank you.
    All the pre infusion features is turned off In the video. When making longer extractions then shown, it often tastes bitter and burned. The shot in the video is underextrated and tastes not very rich.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Run water through the group into something for 30 seconds then tip it into a measuring cup (or run it straight into a measuring cup). Knowing the flow rate in millilitres/minute won't necessarily solve the problem but it could help narrow things down a bit. If the flow is restricted then there could be a blockage somewhere (usually in the 3-way solenoid), or there could be a faulty part (usually the 3-way or OPV). Have you done a back flush or descale recently? Do you only use filtered water?

    I was trying to measure the flowrate, with no pf inserted, after about 15 sec. no water came out, and the pump went off after about 25 sec! It seems like it is broken.

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Sounds like you better get in touch with the shop you bought it from.

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    Hi Christopher,

    Didi you solve the problem with Musics. I am in the way to buy one, because I do believe that it should make better espresso than E61 machine can. Would you recommend me this machine for home?.Thank you! Petar

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    Quote Originally Posted by prusev71 View Post
    I do believe that it should make better espresso than E61 machine can...
    Welcome Petar,

    I must say I am very curious to hear how you have arrived at that conclusion....

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    The Musica is capable of making excellent espresso, but I don't believe it is any better than a E61 machine. I have owned one for several years and find that it is easy to produce excellent espresso. It is possibly easier for unskilled people to use due to the controls. However I don't believe it has the finess of the Lever machines. Matched with a good grinder and fresh beans you can make espresso with either machine I am happy with my Musica but upgraditis is beginning to raise it's head :0
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    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
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    After watching the video, I always get about 5-6 streams of water through the bare group head when I flush it. Never do I get a single stream. Your pour rate is a bit fast. When your pump shut down did you have sufficient water in the tank? Check you shower screen is intact. If you have sufficient water in the tank and it is not pumping water take it to a repair person.

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    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    How old is your Musica? I have an older one on my bench right now and it has a ridiculously complex and unadjustable OPV/bypass system that's factory set.

    I'm pretty sure the newer ones don't use a similar system. We would need to have a look inside to see where the water goes after the flow meter, pump and ... where does it go next?

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    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Here's some images of the 2010 Musica Lux primary hydraulic system. Note 10 bar PLV on expansion ... mini tank. That's the bypass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Welcome Petar,

    I must say I am very curious to hear how you have arrived at that conclusion....
    Hi Talk_Coffee,

    My opinion is subjective - based on my experience. I have Rancilio Silvia and Expobar Brewtus IV-p. In equal conditions (relatively said), Miss Silvia produces better shot than Expobar. One more circumstance outside the topic - E61 is no longer used in commercial machines except one model from VBM. Also, back flashing of E61 with Caffeeza, means to disassemble the group and lubricate it's parts. Back flashing NS or Rancilio groups is simple and there is no need for lubricate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan View Post
    The Musica is capable of making excellent espresso, but I don't believe it is any better than a E61 machine. I have owned one for several years and find that it is easy to produce excellent espresso. It is possibly easier for unskilled people to use due to the controls. However I don't believe it has the finess of the Lever machines. Matched with a good grinder and fresh beans you can make espresso with either machine I am happy with my Musica but upgraditis is beginning to raise it's head :0
    Hi Stan, do you have Siri pstat inside or different brand. I am also impressed by the following fact. The boiler of the NS Oscar/Musics is pure copper. It has no brass plates at both sides, compared to Rocket and different brands. Does somebody knows why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by prusev71 View Post
    back flashing of E61 with Caffeeza, means to disassemble the group and lubricate it's parts.
    I've been using E-61 Group machines for a number of years now, HX and Dual Boiler. In either case, have never found there to be a need to lubricate the Lever Cam/Valve Stems. The first seasoning shot after backflushing, re-lubricates everything with oils from the coffee itself. The Cam/Valve Stems never indicate any excessive wear and tear that would justify separate and regular lubrication with anything else...

    Just my experience...

    Mal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    I've been using E-61 Group machines for a number of years now, HX and Dual Boiler. In either case, have never found there to be a need to lubricate the Lever Cam/Valve Stems. The first seasoning shot after backflushing, re-lubricates everything with oils from the coffee itself. The Cam/Valve Stems never indicate any excessive wear and tear that would justify separate and regular lubrication with anything else...

    Just my experience...

    Mal.
    My experience with Expobar DB showed that after back flashing with detergent makes the lever to squeaks when pulling a shot.

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    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prusev71 View Post
    Hi Stan, do you have Siri pstat inside or different brand. I am also impressed by the following fact. The boiler of the NS Oscar/Musics is pure copper. It has no brass plates at both sides, compared to Rocket and different brands. Does somebody knows why?
    I have never looked inside. Mine is over 5 years old. It had a minor problem this year with a leak I took it to a technician as I am not comfortable working on them as I don't know enough about the system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan View Post
    I have never looked inside. Mine is over 5 years old. It had a minor problem this year with a leak I took it to a technician as I am not comfortable working on them as I don't know enough about the system.
    The external sign that there is Sirai inside is that the machine is being sold with additional portafilter. This is so called "professional pack". I am happy to hear that your is 5 years old without serious problems. BTW, since 26 November 2012, NS produces "soundproof" version.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
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    Only came with one portafiler, I don't think the professional was available when I bought mine

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prusev71 View Post
    My experience with Expobar DB showed that after back flashing with detergent makes the lever to squeaks when pulling a shot.
    Might be using excessive quantity of backflush detergent...
    This will cause the symptoms you describe.

    Mal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by prusev71 View Post
    The external sign that there is Sirai inside is that the machine is being sold with additional portafilter. This is so called "professional pack". I am happy to hear that your is 5 years old without serious problems. BTW, since 26 November 2012, NS produces "soundproof" version.
    Does someone know what the soundproof entails? Can the parts be retrofitted?



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