Post By kyeba
Post By nickm
Post By TC
Post By JetBlack_Espresso
Post By Reefbug
Post By Squeezy
Lelit Mara (PL62) vs Lelit Diana (PL60T V2) Dual Boiler
I have had a Rancilio Silva since 2009 and am looking to upgrade my machine. I have been drawn towards the Lelit range of machines and am having trouble working out the pros and cons of the Lelit Mara (PL62) vs Lelit Diana (PL60T V2) Dual Boiler. Currently I use the Silva morning and evening to make a double shot flatwhite or cap but that is changing with a coffeeholic daughter who lines up for a cup as well with increasing regularity. Also making multiple cups when guests are over is a drag with the Silva hence I am thinking a dual boiler system.
The price of the two Lelits is not a problem. I was leaning towards the PL60T but have not been able to find a lot of information on them here and elsewhere. The attraction with this unit is the PID and I am also guessing the smaller boiler which for single cup usage (mostly) might be advantageous. I have a bench for coffee equipment in our kitchen so space is not a problem. Having the steam controlled only by a switch on this unit seems a little strange (being all or nothing) compared to what I am used to with the Silva.
The Mara is also of interest but no PID, but from what I can tell this is potentially nowhere near as much of an issue due to it having a different sized boiler and set up (or am I wrong to think that)? I do like the taps on this unit though for the steam and water.
So what would people recommend and what are the pros and cons that I am missing.
Chances are that the PL60T V2 will do everything I need and plus some, so given bench space is not an issue should I be looking at spending extra coin on a Mara?? At the same time I would be happy to buy a Mara if there are some compelling reasons apart from the compactness of the design.
Any comments or suggestions would be welcome.
Welcome to CS, Paul.
There are a couple of threads on the Lelit Mara
In the first thread, note the name of the Sponsor I mention. Look at his site for more info.
Are you open to other machines in the heat exchanger and dual boiler category?
e.g heat exchanger - rocket giotto, bezzera domus galatea, vbm domobar jnr and super
Dual boiler - Rocket R58, Alex duetto 3, vbm domobar super 2B
There's a few more in each category, and both Talk Coffee and JetBlack espresso have the lelit machines as well as the others listed
I am certainly open to other machines. From the bit of reading that I had done the Lelit's seemed to stand out. I had also noted the Mara threads but there is little said about the Lelit Diana (PL60T V2) anywhere.
I will have a bit of a look at the Rocket R58, Alex duetto 3, vbm domobar super 2B
I'd go the Mara for your usage it should hit the spot plus its a very good looking machine
Originally Posted by kyeba
Gee now you have me thinking.
What is the pro and con with the heat exchange vs boiler type. For example The Rocket Giotto looks like an excellent machine, ticks a lot of boxes and the price for me is doable. The Rocket R58 looks very similar apart from it being a boiler type but is $1000 dearer and getting into the range where I would have trouble justifying the expense. I am open to the idea but where is the value tied up between these two options and from a functionality perspective what would be the main things I would notice?
The Lelit Diana (PL60T) versus the Lelit Mara (PL62):
* heat up time: Diana heats up faster due to it's dual boiler versus heat exchanger/E61 design (10min v 30min)
* steam operation: Diana has a toggle switch so on or off versus spring loaded rotary valves. In practice, the toggle works great. The most common error is not using enough steam when steaming and the toggle ensures people don't fall into this trap. The steam is strong but controllable even in a 400ml jug when doing milk for a piccolo. The Mara valves are virtually wear free due to being spring loaded and give you more control but I can't think of a scenario when this extra "control" is required.
* steam boiler: can turn this off on the Diana. May be a benefit if black coffee is the primary drink and power saving is a concern
* PID on Diana allows brew water temperature "tweaking" versus Mara that is pre set to operate at the best temperature in general.
* size: Mara is the narrowest heat exchanger/E61 machine in the world. Diana isn't massive, but is wider than the Mara - 30cm v 22cm
* E61 on Mara introduces some pre-infusion versus the group on the Diana that is solenoid operated and therefore the pressure ramp is steeper. Generally doesn't affect coffee quality but the E61 can be more forgiving of technique/coffee issues.
* cool touch wands on Mara
Some things they share:
* full stainless steel construction
* temperature stable and make great tasting espresso
* strong steam for making silky textured milk
* well supported/parts available
Last edited by JetBlack_Espresso; 30th November 2015 at 10:53 AM.
Thanks for that excellent reply. One of the earlier posts has got me thinking a bit more broadly so I am looking over a few other units such as the rocket Giotto evoluzione v2 and ECM T IV Profi
I too was in your situation a few years ago, bit the bullet and went with the Lelit PL60T dual boiler matched with a Compak K3 Push. These were to replace a super auto machine as I wanted more control over grind, brewing and steaming.
The PL60T has been an awesome machine. My wife and I both have a large latte or cappuccino in the morning and afternoon and the steam wand does fine heating the milk for both drinks. We've never had problems with the boilers keeping up when it comes to entertaining for small groups.
Well Thankyou to everyone that provided some input into this thread and also to Chris from Coffee Talk, Ross from Coffee Machine Systems in Brisbane and Brad from Jet Black Espresso. After a number of conversations with these people and the willingness of people to share their experiences on this forum, I settled on a ECM T IV Profi Machine with the switchable rotary pump (as I can plumb it in down the track) and a Profitec Pro T64 grinder from Jet Black. Just wanted to share my appreciation with those I have spoken too or have helped out here CS. Looking forward to getting the new kit up and running when it arrives in a week or so and will share my experiences with it down the track.
This level of purchase was not what I had in mind when I started kicking around the idea of a new machine about a month ago but I am very happy with where I arrived at in the end.
Don't forget the photos...
Gotta have piccies to drool over...
Spent the last few days going through this forum looking for a machine to replace/upgrade my Rancilio Silvia which has served me well for 7 or so years. Was looking at the Domobar Junior and the Lelit Mara but decided to get the Diana as I often find myself lacking in time in the mornings to make my Coffee. Not organised enough to be waiting 30 mins to heat up. Hoping I dont regret the decision not to get the HX machine
Originally Posted by JetBlack_Espresso